Here's all map layouts that got significantly altered for those curious

[postal]

People keep asking about how much got changed, so I used some world maps people already made from the old PC port and compared them to the levels in this remaster with the WIP Kex Editor. These are all the significant changes I noticed.

Original on left, remaster on right

Port of adia, 1 map expanded/rearranged:
http://i.imgur.com/yB0V185.jpg

River of souls, 1 map had warp portal moved, the other had an extra room added and maybe also rearranged:
http://i.imgur.com/bHXvybG.png

Death marshes:
No major changes?

Lair of the Blind Ones, 2 maps shortened/simplified:
http://i.imgur.com/NZKyc7e.jpg

Hive of the Mantids, 1 map had 1 teleporter area removed with new connection added, and another 2 areas added:
http://i.imgur.com/Gueloq2.png

Primagen's Lightship:
No major changes?

Let me know if I missed something. and yea I'm pretty OK with those Lair of the Blind One's changes lol.

[lPaladinl]

So people have been complaining that they 'dumbed down' and simplified the maps in the remaster, but I am seeing the opposite in most of these images.

They definitely rearranged things, but anything they removed in Lair of the Blind Ones is mostly loops that would waste your time if you got lost not remembering which way to go next. Otherwise the rooms you visit are the same.

[BadMojo]

I must admit... Im getting lost an awful lot. I dont remember getting this lost back in the n64 days.

[Level 3 Corn]

The only change I'm grateful for is regarding the Lair of the Blind Ones. Seriously, ♥♥♥♥ that level design.

I suppose to be fair, I was 13 when the game was out but still, no excuse.

[Antroid]

You aren't taking into account the key items that were moved to far more obvious and in the way places...

[franzkfk]

But that was a part of the game. That's what is sick about games these days - simplification, straightforwardness. You don't have to think, you don't have to remember anything. I am really shocked that they did not put in the game autoheal etc.

[Antroid]

Doing this to the levels is basically equivalent to taking all revenants / archviles / mancubi in Doom 2 and changing them to imps and hellknights.

[Exterminator class of 1999]

Originally posted by franzkfk:

But that was a part of the game. That's what is sick about games these days - simplification, straightforwardness. You don't have to think, you don't have to remember anything. I am really shocked that they did not put in the game autoheal etc.

LOL calm down.

[P.M.]

The dumb versions of these maps were the originals, especially Lair of the Blind Ones. This is one of my favorite games ever(want mulitplayer pls) but the map design needed serious wheat/chaff seperation and I'm so f'in glad Night Dive did this.

[WASP]

I've been round Lair of the Blind Ones 3 times and only found 1 of the objectives, I checked every room and triggered every door, I must have missed something :-\

[Antroid]

Originally posted by Bolo Yeung Dim Mak:

The dumb versions of these maps were the originals, especially Lair of the Blind Ones. This is one of my favorite games ever(want mulitplayer pls) but the map design needed serious wheat/chaff seperation and I'm so f'in glad Night Dive did this.

Complete and utter nonsense. A lot of repetitive samey corridors are still here. What got removed was good stuff, spaces for exploration. If you want a linear game with no challenge in exploring the levels, there's plenty of that in every other FPS. What Night Dive did with these levels is insulting and catering to people with no attention span. (Seriously, how the hell do you get lost in these levels, they never even approached the complexity of a game like, say, Shadowman)

[postal]

Originally posted by therealantroid:

You aren't taking into account the key items that were moved to far more obvious and in the way places...

Yea I was only doing a quick glance over the map layouts, not item placement. But yea I would be curious to see how that was changed.

[Gazerbeam]

Hi, is there a link where I can get that WIP kex editor?

[hutz.ytmnd.com]

Dumbing the levels down was indeed not brilliant and flies in the face of what games were supposed to be about. For a company so invested in bringing back old games you'd think they'd understand this. Even now with the increased movement speed and general responsiveness, doing the exploration inherent to the game is much easier as-is.

Did they have a publisher I didn't know about? Or did the rights-holder/investor/bean-counter demand this kind of thing? I mean, pretty sure no one who's not played this game before is getting it now regardless. I've talked to enough people. I know enough about those on my friends list, most are either not old enough or never had an n64, and a simple trip to the store page while logged in continues to confirm the interest level despite my own efforts prior to release.

Oh and the change due to the third key in the hive? In an attempt to simplify, you can now NOT go backwards for any reason after jumping to the forcefield generator, short of those warps which you'd have to find one of later on anyway. Oops.

[Coyote]

I dislike how they moved the key locations to obvious areas.... Very stupid decision.
I do however enjoy some of the new layouts of the maps.... But i would have enjoyed it more if they were additions rather then modifications to make things easier to navigate...

Its like they think we are stupid or something? I dont get it.
Everything else about this remake is really great... Im sure there are people who enjoy things dumbed down and fast so they can just see things explode and feel good about themselves... But i get my enjoyment through defeating a tough challenge and not by watching simple flashing colors on the screen like a toddler.

[darksoul]

Originally posted by therealantroid:

Originally posted by Bolo Yeung Dim Mak:

The dumb versions of these maps were the originals, especially Lair of the Blind Ones. This is one of my favorite games ever(want mulitplayer pls) but the map design needed serious wheat/chaff seperation and I'm so f'in glad Night Dive did this.

Complete and utter nonsense. A lot of repetitive samey corridors are still here. What got removed was good stuff, spaces for exploration. If you want a linear game with no challenge in exploring the levels, there's plenty of that in every other FPS. What Night Dive did with these levels is insulting and catering to people with no attention span. (Seriously, how the hell do you get lost in these levels, they never even approached the complexity of a game like, say, Shadowman)

Yes, the level-design in Shadow Man was maybe even more complex than Turok, and it didn´t even had an Automap. So you really had to remember (or write it down) where the different doors with the various Soul-Levels or Govi that you couldn´t reach yet were; the Dreamcast Version back in the day included some kind of World-Map, with this it was somewhat easier to orientate oneself. But I must say that I always felt that navigating the levels in Shadow Man was somewhat easier; even without an ingame map; maybe it was that Shadow Man had more "Landmarks" in its levels where you could orientate yourself; and I never felt that Shadow Man had so many long stretches in its levels that all looked the same; what was the case in Turok 2.