Important thing to preserve about Turok 2 in the remaster

[Antroid]

So I just dug out my original Turok 2 disc (the PC version). I already had an old installation of Turok 2 which I may have applied some patch to before, some fan patch perhaps. Anyway, the thing runs beautifully, good fps with no lags, good tight controls, the music plays off the CD correctly and the game even has lighting effects, including dynamic lights from weapons, shimmering around water, lights from the fires, and even the working flashlight, which I don't actually ever remember seeing before.
Really, the only things I'd wish for would be a wider FOV and a higher resolution. But anyway.
I ran though a bit of level one.

One thing that HAS to be preserved in the remaster of Turok 2 is the importance of weak spots. I know it's annoying when explosives and the plasma gun do next to no damage, but MAN is it beyond satisfying to do headshots in this game. And when you get the shotgun, it's actually surprisingly effective even at long enough range, and it's very easy to blow off any limb of an Endtrail or an Raptoid (or whatever their name was) with it.

Nothing quite beats bow headshots, but things like concentrating firestorm fire on someone's head to watch it pop or a carefully aimed plasma shot to a spot that actually gets damaged by it are extremely satisfying too.

So whatever you guys decide to do, I implore you, no, BEG you: don't get rid of regional damage on enemies and the armor factor (when enemies take a bit more damage if you keep shoting in armored spots or even just non-weak spots like the limbs).! I can't stress it enough how important to the game's feel the need to aim for weak spots is! Just from playing a bit of level 1 I remembered just how much fun killing one dude in Turok 2 is, more fun than killing one dude in pretty much any other FPS I've ever played.

So if you guys try to fix the splash damage and the plasma gun hit detection, please take extreme care not to mess up the feel of using the rest of the weapons. If it starts taking as many shots to the leg as it does shots to the head to kill an enemy, like in many FPSes with no regional damage, this game is going to lose A LOT.

[ExplosiveBolts]

You realize they would have to go to extra effort to remove that right?

[V I D A L]

I don't even know why are you worried about that. Its like creating a discussion asking them to "Please don't remove the raptors".

[Antroid]

There has been massive demand to "fix the hit detection" for things like explosives and the plasma rifle, and while I also agree that those things are better off fixed, I'm worried that if they decide to address that it might make the enemies more vulnerable everywhere. Depending on how they do it, I guess. Like, regional damage and all the gore animations WOULD obviously stay because you can't just remove such things accidentally (or forget to put in, for that matter) BUT if they, say, make every part of an enemy as weak as the head, which I can see as a quick&easy solution to some of the game's weapon oddities, that would ruin a lot.

[Ǵ̶͓̂͑lí̴̤̀̄́tcĥ̸]

One thing I miss from the 64 version (didn't play the old PC one) was the ability to have corpses keep being blown up. As in like, when you hit one with a grenade and they fly through the air, leaving a stream of blood? Well their bodies used to keep doing that if hit by more grenades, which could happen a lot in areas with a few enemies. It was pretty epic. You could even blow them off of cliffs into the chasms if I remember right.

[Clebardman]

I don't see why the devs would even think about making any parts as weak as the head since from what I remember headshots are instakills in T2. Now if you want my opinion, the damage localisation in Turok 2 was complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Endtrails were basically immune to pistol shots and arrows aside from the 1 hit kill headshot, but the Mag 60 was a magical one-shot dismemberment on anyone. The only thing that pops in my mind when I think Turok 2 is an endtrail with 25 arrows in his shoulder spamming grenades from behind a crate.

I agree that the damage localisation should be kept but there's a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of work to do on it because it's nowhere near good especially compared to Goldeneye 64's localisation.

[Antroid]

I suppose making it easier to kill people by shooting in their other parts can actually be easily achieved without compromising the usefulness of headshots. My point is, I really freaking love landing headshots in T2, heh. So I want, more than anything, for them to remain worth attempting. If nothing else, to conserve ammo.

I don't remember if the bow was a OHKO against literally every enemy if you did a headshot, but IMO that should definitely be the case. Turok's bow IS supposed to be one of his signature weapons, after all.

I haven't played a lot of goldeneye 64 but I didn't like it from what I did play. I don't remember much but it felt like every enemy was just falling under my bullets like the morning snow. No matter where you shot they'd double over and die immediately.

[Clebardman]

The damage localisation in Goldeneye is actually really, really important if you want to finish the game in 00 Agent. But since it's somewhat realistic, people still die when they're shot in the torso because, y'know, that's where most vital organs are. Unlike in Turok 2 where Endtrails apparently have their organs in their elbows and their torsos are just a huge mass of muscle :p.

[Antroid]

Well to be fair most of the enemies in Turok 2 would be much more durable than humans so they should take a fair amount of punishment still, unless you aim for the weak parts. But I will agree that it WAS a tad on the ridic side how you could almost empty your whole bullet box into someone's leg and they would shrug it off. Although I don't remember being able to shoot too many arrows in someone before they died, I always thought the arrows actually did damage enemies well enough.

[Clebardman]

From what I remember arrows are actually weaker than pistol shots, at least with the regular bow. I'd need to find my N64 cartdrige and try it again, it's buried somewhere under my collection, unlike Turok DH wich never left me :p.

[Antroid]

Huh. I always felt like the pistol was almost like mosquito bites but a number of arrows would fell an enemy regardless of where they were shot. At least for whatever reason the bow always seemed much more powerful to me and the pistol nearly useless past levels 1 and 2...
I do have a perfectly running PC version right now but I'm too lazy to check at the moment. :X

Well, actually, arrows to the head at least are definitely more damaging than pistol to the head. It takes one arrow but 2 pistol shots to kill an endtrail, for example, as I've rediscovered yesterday. Although perhaps I just missed half my pistol shots.

[Clebardman]

^Oh, you're using the PC version. That's probably why you actually liked the damage localisation in Turok 2 :p.
I'm actually afraid that the remaster might be extremely easy since pulling headshots with mouse+keyboard is a piece of cake compared to a 15-yo crumbling N64 joystick ^^'. I'd rather see less HS damage and more torso damage to be honest.

[Antroid]

Originally posted by Clebardman:

^Oh, you're using the PC version. That's probably why you actually liked the damage localisation in Turok 2 :p.
I'm actually afraid that the remaster might be extremely easy since pulling headshots with mouse+keyboard is a piece of cake compared to a 15-yo crumbling N64 joystick ^^'.

Hah. Yeah my main point of reference is the pc version (mostly because the one we'll be getting will also be a pc version). However I did play through the n64 one on an emulator several times. With and without trying to use the mouse. Still managed to enjoy it.

Believe you me though. Landing these headshots is still no joke even with the mouse. Everyone is moving a lot and spazzing out in different ways. Very animated. I can only hit people's heads when they stand still or, in the case of one or two enemy types with rather sensible animations (like the yellow melee guys), when they're running straight at me, directly.

Easily killing everything by shooting the torsos would, I feel, make this game's combat pretty bland.

[Clebardman]

Okay, BRB, I'll find that cartdrige. I'm pretty sure you can land 30 pistol shots in an Endtrail's torso without killing him :p

[Antroid]

Originally posted by Clebardman:

Okay, BRB, I'll find that cartdrige. I'm pretty sure you can land 30 pistol shots in an Endtrail's torso without killing him :p

I can easily believe that, yeah. Not so sure about 30 arrows to the torso though, check that if you're motivated enough!

I know being able to waste 10 grenades on a mantid bothered me way more than the same with bullets and dinosoids, though. I could believe that the dinosoids would have thick scales or some crap.

[Clebardman]

Hey my memory was blurry, it's not the torso but the limbs, and the endtrails have that awful animation when they're touched in an arm that makes them cover their torso with the other arm. I managed to put roughly 20 bullets in an endtrail's arms and legs, and probably a couple torso shots too, it's hard to tell, those damn mobs won't stay still :p. The Tek Bow is indeed more powerful than the pistol, but I didn't make extensive tests because 1/N64 joystick 2/N64 lag. Also note that my first attempt with the bow resulted in an insta-kill in the belly, so I don't know what's going on with that localisation anymore

I'd say as long as the explosives are fixed (3 plasma rifle shots on a Raptoid :p) the rest will be fine on PC.