What weapon skill to give rose?

[Arathian]

I played the original but when this came out I decided to start over. I have only really made my rangers and saved though.

As much as I HATED ag center the first time I figured that rose is still much more useful than vulture's cry.

I have a leader with shotgun skills, a sniper, a guy with ARs, and a guy with SMGs.

What weapon skills should I give rose? Should I just keep putting her points into handguns? I hear DC made them some more useful, but I'm not sure.

[Gavener]

Handguns or melee :D i got a Brawler kid just now in my group and a drunkard hobo who smells like piss

[pev69]

I just played through the DC with an original team of 3 AR (starting with: 2 1 6 4 4 10 1) and 1 sniper (4 1 6 4 4 4 5). Had Rose all the way and made her a sniper too. She has low APs (8), but Deadeye and Tinkerer perks will help there. I gave all 4 originals the Brittle Bones quirk, because ranged combat with AR and SR does not need so much combat speed, and it gave a chance to have 10 AP, 13 CI from the start and still have 10 INT for max skill points per level, except the sniper had only 4 INT because I made him a Leadership character with more charisma.

[BoringProphet]

She gets so many skill points I was thinking of making her my SMG player! after I max First Aid, Surgeon, Toaster Repair etc

[One]

Sniper rifels (or assault rifels with long barrel mod) is the best weapon skill for Rose. She is a doctor and you don't want a doctor to fight in the first line since you need doctor to reanimate other members of your team after a tough fight so at least a doctor should survive. Sniper can fight from the second line and be in safety most of the time.

[AfkForCoffee]

Assault rifles or heavy weapons. Maybe sniper rifles if you don't have snipers in your team.

[One]

Originally posted by FadingCeiling:

Assault rifles or heavy weapons. Maybe sniper rifles if you don't have snipers in your team.

Heavy weapon is the worst weapon in the game now. Nobody in your squad need it.

[Gavener]

i found a big ass heavy weapon and tons of ammo, know one can use it, they all are at 21% to hit, i know it breaks the game but there is no way to reset points right, i am all messed up haha

[Dorok]

HW is quite good when well used. If you use it with a crap character it's for sure not that good. Rose isn't a good fighter until many level up.

During whole Arizona HW dominates easily any other weapon types, but in California it's not anymore right, and last tiers HW is somehow less good than most other weapons types, making me wonder if designers of California have any math knowledge. It's not useless weapon in California but it's not a more efficient weapon than most other and the huge waste of ammo becomes pointless, at least last tiers has no jam but it's not justifying the average damages.

Moreover if you do a lot of weaponsmith scamloading all weapons with mods could benefit of multiple big mods, andf then can't be match by weapons with no or few mods. In fact it's mods the most unbalanced element of the game.

[AfkForCoffee]

Originally posted by One:

Originally posted by FadingCeiling:

Assault rifles or heavy weapons. Maybe sniper rifles if you don't have snipers in your team.

Heavy weapon is the worst weapon in the game now. Nobody in your squad need it.

I've been toying around with different weapons in California and I can say it's far from the worst. Energy weapons get that title. 2nd worst is shotguns and 3rd handguns.
If you have the perk points available you can build a decent heavy weapons ranger in Cali. If that ranger happens to have a quirk that improves that then it's even a little bit more nicer.

[One]

Originally posted by FadingCeiling:

Originally posted by One:

Heavy weapon is the worst weapon in the game now. Nobody in your squad need it.

I've been toying around with different weapons in California and I can say it's far from the worst. Energy weapons get that title. 2nd worst is shotguns and 3rd handguns.
If you have the perk points available you can build a decent heavy weapons ranger in Cali. If that ranger happens to have a quirk that improves that then it's even a little bit more nicer.

Tell me at least one reason to build a Heavy weapon ranger instead of Assaulter or Sniper. With heavy weapon you will waste a crazy ammout of ammo to deal less damage than with Assault\Sniper weapon. It's stupid to invest any points in heavy weapon while assault\sniper rifels exist with better damage, accuracy, range and less ammo consumption.

Shotguns and Energy weapon is trash either. Shotguns becouse of low armor penetration. Energy weapon becouse of low damage (even against robots)

SMGs are bad becouse you cannot make headshots with them while you can with Assault rifels and they have lower armor penetration than Assault rifles so I don't see a reason in SMGs either.

Handguns - not that bad cause you can make headshots at least, but you don't need them much since Assault rifels with special perk allow you to shoot at close distance without any problems and you will deal more damage both at close and long range distance with Assault anyway.

Melee (all 3 types) - well, I have a mixed feeling about it. It looks powerfull when you look at weapon stats (blunt exactly) but you have to spend a lot of points on movement with it what makes real DPS lower. Besides with melee weapon you have to risk figting face to face instead of shooting from a distance being in cover. I had 1 melee (Chisel-blunt) in my team and he was the one who absorb damage rather than the one who deal it.

So, a mix of Assault rifels and Snipers rifels (better range and armor penetration) - is all you need in your team in fact with maybe 1 melee guy (not necessary).

I tested all types of weapon through the game and in the end of it.
My final setup was: 4 Assaulters, 2 Snipers, 1 Blunt - it was quite easy to beat the game with this team at ranger difficulty.

With Assaut rifle you can make 3 headshots per turn for 12 points - it's a crazy amount of damage + additional effects.
Sniper rifle allows you to start a battle from a very long range what is advantageous in most cases.

[Dorok]

During Arizona that's quite wrong. You are probably more or less right in California, the California design team had probably no knowledge of basic Math. It's still a piety California get though the QA for balances. Second point mod overall design is totally absurd and OP. Eventually I don't see some major points in California but I would tend agree with the balance whiners, much more than for Arizona even if I agree too it's far to be very fair.

But in no way it's of any use to make a team almost full of AR and SR, to beat the game at Ranger, lol. I'd say it's even probably the best way to get boring camper combats and after whine on WL2 combats whining they are boring crap.

[One]

Originally posted by Dorok:

During Arizona that's quite wrong. You are probably more or less right in California, the California design team had probably no knowledge of basic Math. It's still a piety California get though the QA for balances. Second point mod overall design is totally absurd and OP. Eventually I don't see some major points in California but I would tend agree with the balance whiners, much more than for Arizona even if I agree too it's far to be very fair.

But in no way it's of any use to make a team almost full of AR and SR, to beat the game at Ranger, lol. I'd say it's even probably the best way to get boring camper combats and after whine on WL2 combats whining they are boring crap.

Yes, I mean California mostly where enemies have quite good armor and you need good armor penetration to deal with it. Besides in California you have enough points in weapon skills already to do headshots from any distance so weapon that cannot make headshots look poor there.

Speaking about Arizona exactly... Arizona is more generous for handguns, SMGs and even shotguns maybe while first 2 levels of assault rifels are not that good but as soon as you find Famas at least you don't need any other types of weapon anymore and M16 makes you a king of Arizona completly.

You are getting me wrong. I didn't say it's impossible to beat the game without AR and Sniper rifels. What I say is if you want THE MOST POWERFUL team you have to build it around AR and SR cause devs gave us exactly this kind of balance - it's true irrespective of whether you like it or not - it's a pure maths.

[AfkForCoffee]

Originally posted by One:

Originally posted by FadingCeiling:

I've been toying around with different weapons in California and I can say it's far from the worst. Energy weapons get that title. 2nd worst is shotguns and 3rd handguns.
If you have the perk points available you can build a decent heavy weapons ranger in Cali. If that ranger happens to have a quirk that improves that then it's even a little bit more nicer.

Tell me at least one reason to build a Heavy weapon ranger instead of Assaulter or Sniper. With heavy weapon you will waste a crazy ammout of ammo to deal less damage than with Assault\Sniper weapon. It's stupid to invest any points in heavy weapon while assault\sniper rifels exist with better damage, accuracy, range and less ammo consumption.

One reason? Ok, build one for the lolz. That's about it.

Heavy weapon are kinda like SMGs with more range and the penalty of not being able to use ANY mods (which is fking retarded). Now in W2DC with the quirks, perks and precision shots there are more situations where SMGs/HWs work quite well in combination with precision shots from ARs/SRs. Like use AR/SR to ruin enemy armor, fire two bursts from SMG/HW and enjoy a dead enemy.

If you're playing W2DC as a replay ammo consumption is some what a moot point. By the end of Arizona I had hundreds and hundreds of surplus rounds in my locker at Citadel. In California there are plenty of vendors to buy ammo and no lack of scrap.

All in all the entire path they took with weapons in Wasteland 2, in my opinion, is retarded. I mean utterly moronic. Which unavoidably lead to this point where ARs are still the best choice.

[Dorok]

Handgun are rather weak during some parts of California, eventually some too for Arizona, but I don't think it's right anymore for last tiers.

You'll get both last Handgun at Rambeau shop, M1911 and Wasteland Hawk, 62% critical chance (no mods, luck 1) in comparison the best crit are SR and AR with 41%.

M1911 is 118 average damages for 4AP. Crit is 1.5 damages. With crit chance and damages average damages are 154 average damages for 4AP. And for Wasteland Hawk it's 93 average damages for 3AP. So for example for it can be 411 average damages and crit for 10AP.

If I take the AR FN-FAL, with one burst and one single shot for 10 AP used, it's 357 average damages and crit for 10AP.

But ok there's the AR perk for +1 ArmPen (some mad designer job lol) and the AR is ArmPen 7, the M1911 too but Wasteland Hawk is 6. Moreover AR has one more mod ability. And eventually Brittle Bone could work well for some AR builds, not for any Handgun build.

Still the last tiers Handgun aren't far and more shots can be rather nice.

[deadsanta]

Originally posted by FadingCeiling:

Originally posted by One:

Heavy weapon is the worst weapon in the game now. Nobody in your squad need it.

I've been toying around with different weapons in California and I can say it's far from the worst. Energy weapons get that title. 2nd worst is shotguns and 3rd handguns.
If you have the perk points available you can build a decent heavy weapons ranger in Cali. If that ranger happens to have a quirk that improves that then it's even a little bit more nicer.

Endgame:

#1 Weapon: Pancor Jackhammer shotgun.
#2 Weapon: 50 cal sniper
#3 Weapon: Brawl with Toxic Claws or Blunt with Power Hammer (w/e its called)
#4 Weapon: Proton Axe and AR (barely) over SMG, all three slightly better than Vindicator HW.
#5 Weapon: Final pistol (Hawk or 1911, I can't recall)
#50 Weapon: Gamme Blaster, and only against vulnerable synth, which is like 1/3 of them.
#100 Weapon: Any other energy weapon, they are so utterly nerfed now.

As an example for unbelievers in the ubarness of the shottie in endgame: I killed 5 COTC with one 8-AP 3-shot burst from the pancor, got +5 AP from bloodthirsty and killed the last 3 with another 8 AP burst, on the same turn. No contest, hands-down, shottie owns the endgame.