ARPG without random maps?

[suejak]

I bought this game expecting a classic ARPG experience, playing as I always do on ironman and a tough difficulty level. But I quickly discovered that the maps are always the same. How do you justify this? Do you guys enjoy playing non-ironman ARPGs? I don't see the appeal.

[[Wahr] Eogard]

Why are you talking about the maps and ironman altogether ? How are they linked ? You can't play ironman mode because the map are the same ? wat


Btw I finished the game on Hardcore insane and it was a good experience

[suejak]

Well, obviously if you don't play on ironman, then you will just eat through the content in a linear fashion (you can't really lose in any meaningful sense), and whether the maps are random doesn't matter at all.

I just assumed I was a normal ARPG fan who doesn't like playing ironman on the same maps over and over. The game is hard enough that you can easily die in an hour or two, which is fine - but then you have to play the same stuff again to get back where you are. That's not really what ARPGs are about.

[anramses]

Many aRPGs have static maps. Probably more than don't, especially consolish aRPGs.

[Darmaniac]

you guys already did the hardest difficulty.. you know the game hasn't been out for a week ?? wow.

im playing easy diff. then normal. then hard etc etc. to keep the game for longer.

since it seems so small..

[suejak]

Can you name some ARPGs with static maps? I have never played one. Do you mean like Dark Souls? That's more a 3rd-person twitchy action game.

[Wutzelbatz]

Originally posted by suejak:

Can you name some ARPGs with static maps? I have never played one. Do you mean like Dark Souls? That's more a 3rd-person twitchy action game.

Titan Quest
Sacred 1
Silverfall
Grim Dawn

only to name a few.^^

[dmitrypoluhin]

Van Helsing Final cut
Sacred 2
Legend Hands of God

[Cylion]

Yep most games are not random.

[Mr. Fibble]

Handcrafted maps are easier to make and allow them to be more detailed. Randomly stringing together a series of "rooms" can potentially lead to issues where some combo's are impossible to complete. Pretty sure a lot of the random arpg maps are more a case of they choose from a pool of premades rather than the isaac approach.

Not sure how the map itself alters the whole hardcore side as thats more down to a players ability or the mobs than map layout. Certainly the majority of my poe deaths in hc were nothing to do with the map and more to do with me nuking into reflect (or desync)

Dark souls isnt really twitchy, its a slow plodding methodical game at its heart and only gets close to twitchy if you let yourself get suckered into that one more swing.

[anramses]

Originally posted by Mr. Fibble:

Handcrafted maps are easier to make and allow them to be more detailed. Randomly stringing together a series of "rooms" can potentially lead to issues where some combo's are impossible to complete. Pretty sure a lot of the random arpg maps are more a case of they choose from a pool of premades rather than the isaac approach.

Not sure how the map itself alters the whole hardcore side as thats more down to a players ability or the mobs than map layout. Certainly the majority of my poe deaths in hc were nothing to do with the map and more to do with me nuking into reflect (or desync)

Dark souls isnt really twitchy, its a slow plodding methodical game at its heart and only gets close to twitchy if you let yourself get suckered into that one more swing.

Darks souls is a button masher - nothing else. Not really an aRPG

[suejak]

Ok, I will admit I haven't played most of these modern games. I come from the old-school roguelike/Nethack/Diablo school, so the modern titles I'm familiar with are the Diablos (3 got knocked for poor randomization), Torchlight 1/2, Path of Exile, Tales of Maj’Eyal, etc. In the old days, ARPGS (roguelikes) were by definition set on randomly generated maps.

I wasn't aware there were so many modern ARPGs that think hand-made maps are better for some reason.

Oh well, I guess modern developers are leaving me behind in yet another way. I felt like the new X-Com (1) was unplayable for the same reason.

It has nothing to do with being more/less "hardcore"; it's just a lot less interesting to play ironman when dying means replaying the exact same maps all over again. I could never enjoy that, just as I don't enjoy playing the same levels of a platformer over and over again. And I don't enjoy non-ironman gameplay either, as there is no challenge when there's essentially no way to lose, so I really should never have bought this title.

[Wookie]

Originally posted by Wutzelbatz:

Originally posted by suejak:

Can you name some ARPGs with static maps? I have never played one. Do you mean like Dark Souls? That's more a 3rd-person twitchy action game.

Titan Quest
Sacred 1
Silverfall
Grim Dawn

only to name a few.^^

AMEN to that. Loads more

[suejak]

Sad trend IMO. I guess modern players just don't like to lose.

[[Wahr] Eogard]

Originally posted by suejak:

Sad trend IMO. I guess modern players just don't like to lose.

And old players seems really condescending

[ArchAngelGabe]

How about the Trial of the Gods that spawn the same creatures, in the same order every. single. time. That is some impressive end-game. I am all for grinding, but that is a little bit too much like a REAL hamster wheel.