Enemy AI: Needs major improvement

[Doc]

So, the combat in this game is absolutely atrocious. The game itself is very interesting and has a fun premise, but the combat itself makes it horribly... Not-fun. There are a few main concerns that cause this.

1. Enemies don't use tactics.

I understand that programming AI is a terminal pain in the ass, but having every single enemy simply run towards you and only occasionally jerk to the left or right not only makes combat frustrating, but if you try any sort of close quarters combat (which is literally necessary, otherwise enemies in a base just keep respawning, so sniping is not very reliable) you get peppered with bullets. With basic armor, 4 levels into Defense, and an assault rifle with Armor Piercing, I can still get wiped out by a level 1 bandit base because the enemies take pot shots from a long distance, and by the time I close the gap I am turned to swiss cheese by the hyper-aggressive AI and lack of any sort of buffer against being spammed with damage. Make the enemies hang back, take cover, or just something other than swarming you like angry bees with guns.

2. The damage.

As mentioned in #1, there is no real way to prevent damage. You can take cover, but with the way the AI works you can really only backpedal and hope they miss. And with no real invincibility frames, or just having enemies not go full-auto on you every time, it is very easy to end up in a situation where you are surrounded by gung-ho enemies and get lit up like a christmas tree. Not because of your lack of tactics or thinking, but rather due to the AI having zero self-preservation or combat tactics. The best way to alleviate this is have the AI enemies fire different guns in different ways, rather than just emptying their magazines into you. Have them fire in bursts with the Assault Rifle and SMG, whereas with the rifle and pistol they would try to keep distance on you and fire controlled shots. Something to alleviate the "angry hornet nest" form of AI the game currently has.

3. Respawning enemies.

So as mentioned previously, unless you're within a certain range of a base, enemies will continually respawn, so you can't really use long-distance tactics, like landing on a roof across the street and sniping the enemies. But I have a solution that plays well with the previous suggestions. If you are attacking from a certain distance, have enemies take cover. Get behind walls, get indoors, etc. to avoid your gunfire, and increase the radius where enemies stop respawning. That way you would need to plan ahead for an attack. Find a high vantage point where the most areas in an enemy base are exposed, and if anyone gets to cover or indoors you move in to clear the rest of them out. That would make fighting against AI opponents in a long distance battle far less frustrating and more interesting.


All in all, my suggestions are not meant to belittle the creators of the game. I love the premise and style of the game, and with more polish and work this game could be very amazing. The only real issue I have right now is with the AI enemies as mentioned above, I have no real complaints about PVP since these issues are all solved by being against a human enemy. If these changes are made (and maybe some weapons have damage changed to account for these adjustments) the combat could be much more engaging and less frustrating, especially for newer players.

[Sir Twist]

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree

[FlamingAnus]

+1
i'm loving this game, but the AI is a major annoyance for me.
i've found ways to cheat it and make base raiding tollerable, but really i shouldn't have to.
raiding the large bandit bases is a major pain in the butt. the second you walk through the main gate and fire on an enemy you get swarmed with 8 AI all spamming rockets and smg fire in your direction.

[Misery]

Agreeing also.

Pretty much every other aspect of the gameplay is fine. And the concepts and mechanics are fine. But the execution is just so wonky when it comes to combat.

One thing I'd kinda like to see is to give the AI different possible "personality" types. Like one guy might be the sort to rush you and go berserk, another might try to keep a distance and use a weapon designed for long range, that sort of thing. That way hostile NPCs dont simply attack in a giant clump. Doesnt necessarily have to be linked to what weapon type they're using... maybe some of them arent so bright and will do derpy things like try to use a shotgun from a bit of a distance away.

But even individual foes need to be toned down. Just one-on-one is extremely risky as it is. But actually raiding a base? I couldnt do it, not even the smallest one.

That's not to say that it should be easy. Raiding a base should be a risky move. But right now it's the wrong sort of difficult.

[Llamamoe]

Aside from AI(and animations), I think that like all games with shooting, Voxel Turf really needs some decent shooting mechanics - recoil, spread, dynamic cursor, hitconfirms, etc. would be a good start.

[Serath]

Originally posted by Rachsauce:

As mentioned in #1, there is no real way to prevent damage. You can take cover, but with the way the AI works you can really only backpedal and hope they miss. And with no real invincibility frames, or just having enemies not go full-auto on you every time, it is very easy to end up in a situation where you are surrounded by gung-ho enemies and get lit up like a christmas tree. Not because of your lack of tactics or thinking, but rather due to the AI having zero self-preservation or combat tactics.

I think this pretty much nails it. Even in more mainstream game shooters with more advanced AI, they tend to at least give some leeway. Here's the minute they know you're around, it's pretty much a full stream of hitscan bullets the second one pixel of your character enters their cone of fire. Their reaction time is akin to Max Payne 3 on high difficulty, (about a fraction of a second) only you don't have bullet time or a cover system to compensate.

Originally posted by Llamageddon:

Aside from AI(and animations), I think that like all games with shooting, Voxel Turf really needs some decent shooting mechanics - recoil, spread, dynamic cursor, hitconfirms, etc. would be a good start.

Ideally I would like this in too, particuarly with the recoil, but I was willing to live with it with the other game's features. The thing is I don't know how many guns there are in the game, and not sure of the game's intent in regards to combat.

With the RPG stats (which is oddly not a feature mentioned in the store page or in-game tutorial) the near perfect accuracy of the AI might be to go along with a more RPG or "turn-based/dice roll" combat system that is played in full time and allows free movement. Or maybe eventually the player gets so strong it's a matter of just having more health to outlast the enemy. I don't know. I don't even if know the weapons themselves are meant to get any stronger the longer you play the game, and unaware if there are any healing items beyond the health vial that heals 10 points. (Which I can imagine in the long term, isn't much to heal you with when you start getting high amounts of health, and bandits keep getting stronger.)

Still, this game is the closest to a game that I had been wishing existed, what with it's features. I just wish something could be done with the AI, or at least have someone tell me the reason for it.

[/Of4O\]

Get the rocket spawning perk, get a car, rocket strafe the bases.

Try putting upgraded bases around a lev 5 bandit base.

Combat in this game is really, really fun.

[Puzzlemaker]

I found that most of the fun fighting in this game seems to revolve around explosives. A good fix would be to add cool weapon upgrades that give regular non-explosive gunplay some pizazz.

[Kiloton]

Turf wars are not fun. It's just a zerg rush with dozens of mindless enemies. It's overkill. Security guards are worthless in a turf war.

I'm playing without AI factions from now on.

[Doc]

Originally posted by Puzzlemaker:

I found that most of the fun fighting in this game seems to revolve around explosives. A good fix would be to add cool weapon upgrades that give regular non-explosive gunplay some pizazz.

My issue with THAT is that the world doesn't repair itself. I blew a massive hole in a burger bar in a fight with some bandits for a mission, and the building was never fixed. Nor are the tons of holes in the road from my police shootout. If the world would gradually get repaired and the "insurance" actually repaired bandit bases I take over for use as bases, I would be more inclined to use explosives.

Originally posted by RNGesus Hates You:

Turf wars are not fun. It's just a zerg rush with dozens of mindless enemies. It's overkill. Security guards are worthless in a turf war.

I'm playing without AI factions from now on.

Exactly. It's just a bland, irritating zerg rush that basically tanks what could be an awesome gangland game. This is basically Sub Rosa with more fun features and NPCs, if the combat wasn't godawful it'd be amazing.

[KrysisMode]

Pretty much yeah. Have to a agree the only way I got anywhere was scrounging up some dosh for body armor which turns their attacks to non-stupidly powerful levels to oh-dear-god-ow-levels and abuse the HELL out of basic line of sight mechanics to lure them out one or two at a time. If I end up with three or more I'm basically dead as a doornail from sheer volume of fire.

The only counter I've found for this is getting serious distance and bunny hopping like a rabbit on crack as it throws off their aiming for some reason and if you're far enough it's not nearly as lethal. But then everything indoors is cramped, narrow, and hard to see in and guess where most hostile npcs you gotta kill are? A-yup inside those little death traps! All of that encourages getting your mitts on a rocket launcher soon as possible but as already said the world doesn't recover unless you own it and pay the costs out of pocket.

It needs some improvements or at the least some non godlike enemy AI with high power guns that outright gank you. I had an easier time fighting the rocketeers because I could dodge the rockets!

[sudan special forces]

Agreed, enemies using hitscan weapons is awful. Replacing their bullets with projectiles would vastly improve the combat experience.

I realize this thread is years old but this issue is still present TODAY.