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- The more detailed backstories of the Lunarium leaders and what happened to them, ie Chiree's amputations or Elirom's quitting the Heliarchy are planned to be given during moments during the Lunarium campaign, or perhaps in epilogues. I just thought it'd be better to have these conversations happen after you're more familiar to them.
- There are a few mentions or displays (not all contained within the Lunarium Intro missions) of the Heliarchs' legal process being not exactly fair. In summary there aren't avenues for attempting such a change without effectively falling under the Heliarchs' definition of an outlaw or terrorist; unless the propositions were to come from someone within the Heliarchy, but even then it'd be unlikely to garner support, and they'd be more likely to go the route of Elirom, or resign themselves to the situation.
- I wouldn't say that necessarily, though certainly supporters of the Lunarium, such as some Arach Houses, offer their support mostly for their own interests.
Overall pretty good points, and at least the first one I hope to get adequately covered in the following portions of the Lunarium side of the campaign.
another point about number 2 is that the remnants space is right besides the graveyard, a region of space where artificial live ship decimated their creator which should make them even more weary of aritificial life and replicating machines in general
about point 3, theres alot of different culture in human space, and she could pass as mute, reducing the risk that her mode of communication would give her out, but i do agree that in case of an accident, her special augmentation would make for quite the complication (oh look! what is that? a new kind of space parasite?!)
Sorry if didn't make it clearer from the beginning, but my core problem with the current Lunarium intro was that the player is forced to choose sides before ever really understanding why Heliarchs = Bad. We're given vague hints that they might not be as great as they present themselves, but no one who opposes them will ever just stop with the innuendo for 5 minutes and say, "Hey! Here's a video of the Heliarchs massacring a village of 500 people when they refused to turnover one suspected criminal. They need to be stopped!" This is especially true since many planets (with billions of people) seem to view the Heliarchs with suspicion. Even civilians should be able to point out some of the Heliarchs' misdeeds, since it's strongly hinted that they are an open secret.
Really feels like the earliest contact the player has with the Lunarium agents should be through anonymous messages or packages laying out some of the Heliarchs' worst crimes. Given that they are hunted and outgunned, revealing their identities and asking you to join BEFORE doing this is needlessly reckless.
The player's initial contacts with the Heliarchs and Coalition space in general suggest a peaceful and prosperous society at least compared to human space with it's piracy, poverty and war. Deciding to throw all that into violent chaos for the Lunarium's vague goals and motivations just feels like too big of an ask with what's currently presented.
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That's an excellent point. I hadn't even considered the symbiotes. I was thinking more along the lines of a lack of Republic ID or medical records. Any blood samples or DNA tests could also highlight the lack of any hereditary link between Taely and anyone else currently alive in human space. Given their love for blood tests, the Remnant should be painfully aware of this risk.
As you said Coalition space is presented as mostly peaceful and harmonious, though there've been some additions, not all within the Lunarium and Heliarch Intro, to hint at bad stuff. There's also a Pull Request open on the GitHub to add some more cases of bad stuff, particularly with Heliarch involvement.
The reasoning was that, if the Lunarium show their hands right away in an attempt to all-in on recruiting the player character, the rest of the Lunarium campaign couldn't quite make use of such reveals as well, or at least they wouldn't be as impactful. Besides that, these painting the Heliarchs in such a bad light would make it one-sided in that the Heliarchs would be lacking a proper justification for you to join them from a morals standpoint.
The Heliarch government and paranoia is wholly based on the combat of the Quarg, and the fear of their returning for their rings. To "even it out" if the Lunarium showed their hands of Heliarch atrocities, then the Quarg would need to be involved right away to balance it out as a Heliarch justification. Either way, both sides would take away from planned climatic moments during the campaigns, so ultimately the more vague mentions are what I went with.
The Heliarchs have reportedly maintained relative peace and prosperity in Coalition space for thousands of years using a meritocratic system. They managed all that while dealing with the inherent difficulties of dealing with a very heterogeneous populous, not only in language and culture, but also basic physiology. They have objectively accomplished more than any interstellar age human government. Any verified misdeeds could also have any one of numerous justifications including:
-'bad apples' (the Free Worlds has their own violent rogue agent scenario and we don't abandon their cause),
-preventing greater imminent danger (kill hundreds to save millions trolley problem, even the Pug understand this logic),
-being ancient history (everyone responsible for a massacre may already be disciplined and dead, the Lunariums simply hold a long grudge)
-it never really happened as described ('deadly' weapons were actually stun weapons, the whole thing was staged by a power hungry faction, an initial report of the event was mistranslated, etc.)
Failing all of the above, the Heliarchs can always fall back on a claim of being the lesser of two evils. Any faction overthrowing the Heliarchs, would need to replace the Heliarchy with some other form of government and it's hard to imagine the weapon-obsessive Lunariums not falling into a military dictatorship or a competing set of warlords.
Although a lot of the Heliarchy verbiage focuses on their obsession with the Quarg, it should be highlighted that they are also, reportedly, a half-decent form of government Quarg or no Quarg.
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This isn't directly related to the Lunarium discussion and may just be my own subjective reading of the text, but I can't help feel that the Quarg have in some small way enabled the Heliarchy by not maintaining even a minimal level of contact with the Coalition. It's way easier to craft a boogieman or political scapegoat out of a complete stranger than someone you know well. The Quarg are presumably smart enough to know this, which calls in question their policy of allowing the Coalition to remain in isolation for so long and sustain the narrative of them as a vile oppressor.
Renewed peaceful contact between the Quarg and Coalition may actually, paradoxically, diminish the Heliarch's standing rather than enhance it. I'd honestly be way more interested in the Lunarium if establishing diplomatic relations with the Quarg was a stated goal, but I don't recall them even mentioning the Quarg.
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Also, I just wanted to say thanks for putting the story together and responding to my feedback.
I get the feeling Heliarch Judicial system is quite harsh, and not just from this one incident.
More detail if you want it:
Only minor injuries happened, and it was the first offence in a long time for the angry person. Yet the Heliarchs' sentence for him was years in seclusion. And he didn't get due process.
While brainstorming and workshopping the Lunarium and their case against the Heliarchs it was stated that the Heliarchs thus far had only pretty much gotten shows of positive influence, and that's definetly meant to be the most surface-level appearance of the Coalition.
It's true they did a lot of good, and that the Lunarium aren't necessarily all members wholly free of reason to be wanted by the Heliarch government, but it's still the case that many of the Lunarium came to the movement as a means of fighting back against Heliarch injust treatment.
As I said more personal details for the Lunarium leaders would be given during the campaign, but in general ES doesn't really describe much in terms of graphic violence or detailed bits of gore, so I wouldn't expect it to be written as harshly as it really would be in their reality, to keep with that tone of the game.
The Heliarchs' argument of being better than the Quarg is for sure relevant, though I'm not sure I'd agree the Lunarium should be described as weapon-obsessive; yes they want a lot of weapons, but that's because they can't really just make their own Heliarch-grade weapons right at the start, and they'll need a lot of weapons to take down the tanky Heliarch ships.
As others mentioned the Quarg *have* culled Heliarch expeditions to the outside of Coalition space since their war, and them not appearing in the Coalition is also something a strategic decision to make the Heliarchs start growing complacent with their situation, which would make it easier for them than if they kept the Heliarchs on their toes at all times.
That'd include even if they only tried to be diplomatic, as the whole narrative is already against them there.
Regarding your point about diplomacy, idk where you got to in their Intro so may be spoilers, but the Lunarium Intro's conclusion point is just that, you take a diplomat/linguist from their group of leaders to the Quarg, to try and gather filmed proof that they *can* be spoken with peacefully, and get details about how they do not really want to fight everyone in the Coalition. The plan being that could be used as effective counter-propaganda in the Coalition.
For comparison, the Free Worlds have clear motivations in the form of (1) poor representation in the Republic due to low population and geographic remoteness, (2) rampant piracy, and (3) a general lack of services and economic opportunities. All of which is readily knowable before you side with them. There's even a lengthy intro mission showing they probably aren't behind the terrorist attacks, which would be the only reason you could see them as the baddies.
Weapon-obsessive for better or worse is an accurate picture of how the Lunarium comes across prior to joining them. Their missions either involve weaponry or them lying to you (the captain) or both. I don't doubt there's more to them than that, I'd just like the opportunity to see it before turning against the Heliarchs.
I'm not sure it's ever explicitly stated the Quarg are the ones culling the Coalition expeditions. I remember there being a lot of suggestions that they were behind it, but never direct proof. Dead explorers tell no tales after all.
I never went passed the "Do you want to join the Lunarium? Yes / No / Not now", for all the reasons stated above. Them finally getting interesting AFTER the prompt doesn't surprise me.
What about Heliarch society descriptions? Such as the justice department I mentioned above. Think about whether such a meritocracy should continue as is.
You need to think about the impressions you get from both sides.
PS. Weapons-obsessive isn't how I'd put it. More like they know they are incredibly outgunned right now.
As for your spoiler text, I think I remember Skylances being mentioned, which is a Quarg weapon..
That same mission also mentions that Heliarch law was based on the Saryd law system(as they were the most advanced of the three races at the time of the Heliarchs' formation), where the Saryd are by far the longest-lived, so even minor 'Saryd' prison sentences are about a third of an Arach or Kimek's natural lifespan.
I spent some time digging through the game's Coalition text files looking for anything I may have missed regarding the Heliarch's justice system. As far as I can tell, there's only two events that give any direct insight into how it works. #1 The brief altercation with the alpha while window shopping and #2 the posters / propaganda quest chain.
I was already fully familiar with #1, but I find it difficult to draw any meaningful conclusions from it. The captain brings up a momentary concern about due process, but I can think of at least three reasons why normal civilian due process wouldn't / shouldn't apply. Those are: (a) the 'special' nature of the individual in question, (b) the altercation was seemingly witnessed (and probably recorded) by a Heliarch agent, leaving very little room for any reasonable doubt defense, and (c) the individual has a recorded criminal past. We don't really find out anything from this about how the average coalition native would be treated by the justice system, or how the justice system is viewed by the average coalition native.
I had already completed #2, but upon reading through game files I figured out there are actually two parallel versions of this quest chain. The version I experienced, the version you see when you aren't a Lunarium member, contains a series of lies about plays and movies that are 'suitable for all ages'. No actual substantive information about the Heliarchy is given until the very end, which comes immediately after being told everything prior was a lie. The far more informative version of the quest chain only occurs if you already joined the Lunarium, which isn't helpful if you're still trying to decide to join them.
Even being told the Heliarch justice system is based in ancient Saryd law (and lifespans), only leads to more questions. Why wouldn't the Heliarchy, which is two-thirds Kimek and Arachi, reform the law in the thousands of years since? Why does there not seem to be a clear dividing line in Lunarium sympathies between Kimeks/Arachi and the Saryds? The story doesn't fully add up in this regard.
Them not having reformed the laws is kind of the thing Tummug is bitter about in that segment.
I'm not sure what you mean about the divide in sympathies, but if it's whether there's tension between the groups that constitute the Lunarium, then yes, for instance many members are from species-specific isolationist worlds, ie the Kimek's Remote Blue or the Saryd's Secret Sky.
There's a bit where Pyakri throws shade at Elirom during the mission where you join them, but that's more to do with her not trusting him for being a former Heliarch than interspecies tension.
The Coalition species have lived among themselves for millennia now so the distrust between the species really is just kind of secluded to the specific cases ie the planets I mentioned.
I imagine questioning the unjust law system to the point of one joining the Lunarium would mean their goal in bringing down the Heliarchy would override any potential bad blood a member could have with members of other species due to the Heliarchs' laws, if only until said goal of taking down the Heliarchs is achieved.
Also idk if I'm being annoying or irritating or whatever in these comments but if so just lemme know and I'll stop. It's fine to have problems with the Coalition missions (I have problems of my own with other stuff in the game, it's all fair and good to not be a fan of something), I'm just trying to give my view/clear up stuff.
The only reason that wouldn't happen is if there's a small group of power brokers that actually control Heliarch policy making and have prevented it for self-serving reasons for a very long time. If that's the case, the Lunarium presumably has enough intel to know who that is and publicize their abuse of power. However, the Lunarium treat the Heliarchy mostly as a monolith, suggesting there is no such small group, bringing us back to the paradox of timescales and reform.
What I mean is that if the justice system is well tailored to Saryd lifespans and culture, but poorly suited to Arachi and Kimeks, one would expect the core of Lunarium support to come from non-Saryds and that many if not most members would harbor at least a minor grudge against Saryd privilege and complacency.
The Saryd population are also outnumbered drastically by both Kimek and Arachi, but hold a third of Heliarch positions, which means they hold significantly more sway per capita. That's another possible point of division, but no one even mentions it.
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If I could wave a wand and redo the Coalition text, I'd refocus the Lunarium versus Heliarchy conflict as a Lunarium versus Saryd-led Heliarch Cabal conflict with the charismatic Consul Aulori playing a key part of the cabal. I'd make all this fairly obvious from the introductory missions.
On the one hand you have the Heliarch Cabal which offers the player continued peace (safe trading and jobs), money and powerful Heliarch ships and outfits. Their ultimate goal is to suppress the Lunarium, while developing ships and outfits to rival the Quarg.
On the other hand you have the Lunarium, which aspires to turn the Coalition populace (and the Heliarch rank-and-file) against the Cabal through a combination of covert actions, propaganda and small strategic military engagements (in contrast to the current plan of full violent revolution). Their ultimate goal being to turn the Heliarchy into the benevolent meritocracy it always claimed to be. They offer a moral victory, but a net material loss to the player as jobs, ships and systems get closed off, at least for a time. The player will also be asked to sacrifice money and time for the cause (someone has to bankroll it).
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I very much enjoy and appreciate the back and forth. You're not the least bit annoying.
From a literary perspective, you don't need anything grandiose to create cognitive dissonance. You just need an authority figure to dismiss as necessary something the PC observes that did not have to be. It could be as simple as someone receiving a citation and an offhand observation of disillusionment. It often is IRL. For real world examples, see racial disparity around the criminal justice system in the US. Something that's been going on for hundreds of years neither has a resolution or a universally accepted viewpoint. Many people see "attrition" as part of "safety" as a goal, and many people don't. Reality can be messy, and it's a heck of a hook.