[Spoiler] AMS thread

[Ker]

I'm merging Crow's AMS thread with this one, as although there was a relevancy bump, it was still technically a necro and is not behavior we want to encourage in a non-timeless thread.

[Storm Crow]

Anti-Missile systems [Spoilers]

So, I threw a spreadsheet[docs.google.com] together to try and work out the relative efficiencies of each Anti-Missile turret in the game. The general model I worked off was that we could find some kind of total value which we could then use to compare the turrets by multiplying the range, shots per second and anti-missile value (As they're the beneficial values, we want to be dividing them by the detrimental values.), and then dividing that by the heat per second multiplied by the energy per second, multiplied by the outfit space required. While I'm probably wrong here- this kind of stuff is what Local does- this leaves us with the Bullfrog Anti-Missile as the most efficient AM turret with an overall score of 1, followed by the normal Human Anti-Missile at 0.416 recurring and then the Wanderer AM at 0.3 recurring. Note that I've omitted the Quarg AM since I couldn't be bothered to go find it (The version of World-Forge I'm running doesn't have it), and I haven't calculated the efficiency of the Drak AM since it works continuously instead of on a per shot basis- if anyone else wants to do that, feel free.

[Luke]

Nice work.

Sometimes you don't care about heat, energy, or mass.

For that measure, Arfecta comes out far ahead of Warder and Wanderer, everything else trails behind. Drak, I'm not sure what the multiplier should be for fireing rate, but even if you make it "1" then it is close to the Warder and Wanderer numbers.

The other consideration is what kind of missiles you are likely to face. Some have lower "hit points" in which case you would be more efficient with a lower AM value and higher fireing rate.

[Amazinite]

In order from greatest to worst in terms of AM/sec * range (as in not taking energy or heat into account):
1) Drak
2) Pug T3
3) Quarg
4) Wanderer
5) Korath Warder
6) Pug T1
7) Heavy AM
8) Chameleon
9) Normal AM
10) Bullfrog

If we then take the AM/sec * range numbers and divide by mass to see how much fire power you get out of a smaller outfit, everything is the same except for the last 4:
7) Chameleon
8) Bullfrog
9) Heavy AM
10) Normal AM

[Anima]

So basically ♥♥♥♥ the Bullfrog in general?

[Storm Crow]

Updated to add a section which disregards everything but AM, range and outfit space.

[Amazinite]

My AM spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vQ87FyJLe0UL2S2y-7afsuJOS8p9QQTC8PfiOlfn-YQ

[Anima]

I like Derpy's better

[local god]

ton for ton, the Bullfrog is better than the Chameleon, and they're both better ton for ton than the human units.

so, if you have 22 tons of weapons capacity available, and two turret mounts: use Bullfrogs instead of a single Chameleon. ;)

[Avior]

I'd never use an asymmetrical hardpoint layout anyway.
Unless the entire ship is asymmetrical to begin with (e.g. bactrian, mule, ...)

[Amazinite]

Originally posted by local god:

ton for ton, the Bullfrog is better than the Chameleon.

That's not taking range into account o3o

[Avior]

If your ship is smaller than the anti-missile's range, it doesn't really matter.

[warp_core]

Having a higher range means that the AM will get more time between the missile entering it's range and when the missile would hit the ship. This means that it has longer to take it out.
For example, an anti missile turret, turret X, with double the range but half the 'anti missile' strength but the same fire rate as another turret, turret Y, will perform the same as turret Y.
Having said that, AM turret stats don't tend to scale like that in relation to each other and there tend to be other factors to consider, such as energy, heat and size.

[local god]

Originally posted by Derpy Horse:

Originally posted by local god:

ton for ton, the Bullfrog is better than the Chameleon.

That's not taking range into account o3o

actually, it is - i spent a lot of time on the hai anti-missile systems, trying to take input from to community (which was complaining that "turret mounts" were not being taken into account as an "efficiency" metric in the general "larger outfits are more efficient" metric). the end result was a hybrid system that took "turret mount"s as a resource into account, as a balance metric...

at the end of the day, if you're optimizing your mount capacities, you ought to be optimizing turret placement as well, and a pair of Bullfrogs (placed properly, where appropriate/hai A/M in general) firing in a stream is geneerally better than a single Chameleon firing by itself (or mutiple LAMTs firing "cluster")...

[Luke]

Just thinking that range should probably not be a flat multiplier, rather it should follow some sort of log scale that degrades over distance.

Greater range, less likely to actually hit the missile as it maneuvers to track you, thus diminishing returns. And since different missiles maneuver at different rates, greater range would have more or less effectiveness against different missiles.

Of course, since the greater range anti missile systems also have a faster shot velocity, they are more likely to score hits at closer range than their close-range bretheren (the fact of this makes me a little sad) so maybe that balances out the diminishing returns at long range?

Also, AM value per second isnt a great value by its self: it needs to be considered VERSUS something. Shooting down Javlins? Truncate any shot with a value greater than 2. Typhoons? Truncate greater than 30, and consider what fraction of each shot might be an overage (for example, 1/16 of every chameleon shot against a typhoon is a waste)

[jafdy]

AMs are laser beams. Thay always hit, the thing that changes is weather thay do any thing.

When a missile is hit a random number below the AM's AM value is compared to a random number below the missiles missile strength value. If the AM is higher the missile is destroyed if the MS is higher nothing happens.

See also: https://github.com/endless-sky/endless-sky/wiki/CreatingOutfits