What uses do Coalition ships even serve?

[Starext]

(No, I'm not talking about the Heliarchs.) Aside from half decent transports and freighters, the civilian Coalition ships have really little uses. Has anyone here found a good use for them? I mean, maybe you could put a few weapons on them but that'd be a waste of weapons and Jump Drives.

[Belteguesian]

Originally posted by AndrewLT:

(No, I'm not talking about the Heliarchs.) Aside from half decent transports and freighters, the civilian Coalition ships have really little uses. Has anyone here found a good use for them? I mean, maybe you could put a few weapons on them but that'd be a waste of weapons and Jump Drives.

No it's not, the Kimek Spire makes a formidable warship with a lot of crew.
On another level, you can use the Spire AND the Wanderer Freighter, 1000 Cargo! together making a formidable merchant fleet of only two ships and about 30 crew in total... does that make any sense? Of course the Spire will be fully armed so it can protect the Freighter.
On another note the Arach Bulk Carier was able to follow my Bactrin on steroids (Biggest atomic engines it can have) everywhere supplementing the Bactrian's Cargo which was lessened by outfit expasnions to carry tier 2+ weapons with only 9 crew!!!

[MrPurple33]

I actually Like all the Arach ships -- but the Kimek Spire is both Burly and has huge passenger transport space

[DC Zhor]

Originally posted by Belteguesian:

Originally posted by AndrewLT:

(No, I'm not talking about the Heliarchs.) Aside from half decent transports and freighters, the civilian Coalition ships have really little uses. Has anyone here found a good use for them? I mean, maybe you could put a few weapons on them but that'd be a waste of weapons and Jump Drives.

No it's not, the Kimek Spire makes a formidable warship with a lot of crew.
On another level, you can use the Spire AND the Wanderer Freighter, 1000 Cargo! together making a formidable merchant fleet of only two ships and about 30 crew in total... does that make any sense? Of course the Spire will be fully armed so it can protect the Freighter.
On another note the Arach Bulk Carier was able to follow my Bactrin on steroids (Biggest atomic engines it can have) everywhere supplementing the Bactrian's Cargo which was lessened by outfit expasnions to carry tier 2+ weapons with only 9 crew!!!

Sure the Spire has the crew to deal, I would be hard pressed to call it a warship however, it is rightly tagged as a transport. By the time you have a jump drive (assuming you didn't get it by other means) better things surface. The Spire barely competes with a Bactrian (which is a HUMAN ship for crying out loud). The only reason people use the Bactrian is because of its sheer versatility. And I sell it in favour of a Hurricane later on, since I hardly need to capture ships by that point, and this birdy ship is good enough without resorting to automata.

I have to agree with OP here, Coalition ships need a revamp. If Heliarch is tier 2.5, then maybe normal coalition could be tier 2, to compensate. It doesn't look like those ships could stand to the Quarg in an equal fight.

I have no problem with people having aesthetic preferences (hell one of the reasons I'm planning a plugin is so I can add a few ships inspired in another sci-fi game I played, that I find to be the most beautifully designed ships ever), but in practical terms - Coalition? No, thanks.

EDIT: Unless they have hidden stats like the Arfecta, do they?

[Ker]

being completely honest, i dont use them. They have their uses, but they do not fit into every playstyle.

[MrPurple33]

I might be the only Long-term player who NEVER uses the Bactrian -- It's just ugly and goofy Looking

[thorndeux]

Originally posted by MrPurple33:

I might be the only Long-term player who NEVER uses the Bactrian -- It's just ugly and goofy Looking

If you don't capture that much (or don't mind refilling crew more often) the Bactrian doesn't offer that much over something like a Shield Beetle.

But with regards to the Coalition ships: I'm not too impressed by them either.

[Belteguesian]

Originally posted by Erendelil Bakun:

Sure the Spire has the crew to deal, I would be hard pressed to call it a warship however, it is rightly tagged as a transport. By the time you have a jump drive (assuming you didn't get it by other means) better things surface. The Spire barely competes with a Bactrian (which is a HUMAN ship for crying out loud). The only reason people use the Bactrian is because of its sheer versatility. And I sell it in favour of a Hurricane later on, since I hardly need to capture ships by that point, and this birdy ship is good enough without resorting to automata.

I have to agree with OP here, Coalition ships need a revamp. If Heliarch is tier 2.5, then maybe normal coalition could be tier 2, to compensate. It doesn't look like those ships could stand to the Quarg in an equal fight.

I have no problem with people having aesthetic preferences (hell one of the reasons I'm planning a plugin is so I can add a few ships inspired in another sci-fi game I played, that I find to be the most beautifully designed ships ever), but in practical terms - Coalition? No, thanks.

EDIT: Unless they have hidden stats like the Arfecta, do they?

Have you counted it's turrets/gun points? A medium Warship all in all, with Hull regeneration to ad, and what do you think are all these availlable (unuised) outfit spaces? I usually fill it with Wanderer guns and it runs circles around everything, no joke. The Anti missile is of course from out Korath friends (best in the game by a looooooong shot)

[thorndeux]

Originally posted by Belteguesian:

The Anti missile is of course from out Korath friends (best in the game by a looooooong shot)

Have you given the Remnant Point Defense Turret a try? And if you take heat and energy into account, the Wanderer Anti-Missile is pretty competitive, too, especially against the heavier late-game missiles.

[Belteguesian]

Originally posted by thorndeux:

Have you given the Remnant Point Defense Turret a try? And if you take heat and energy into account, the Wanderer Anti-Missile is pretty competitive, too, especially against the heavier late-game missiles.

Technically they look better, BUT the firing rate of the Korath one covers all deficiencies it might have (not many anyway)

I Usually put 2 of them on my Bactrian BEFORE entering the FW campaign, then I just walz through the diplomacy missions (to Syndicate and right after to Tarazed.

AND they face the nukes twice (in the Reconciliation arc that I play (I hate the checkmate scenario and love the cloaking device AND the free Jump drive I get in the reconciliation one)

[thorndeux]

Originally posted by Belteguesian:

Technically they look better, BUT the firing rate of the Korath one covers all deficiencies it might have (not many anyway)

I Usually put 2 of them on my Bactrian BEFORE entering the FW campaign, then I just walz through the diplomacy missions (to Syndicate and right after to Tarazed.

AND they face the nukes twice (in the Reconciliation arc that I play (I hate the checkmate scenario and love the cloaking device AND the free Jump drive I get in the reconciliation one)

Hey, I'm not trying to be mean or anything (and we are kind of getting away from the topic of this thread), but I'm positive you are mistaken with regards to the Korath anti-missile. I've done pretty extensive analysis[docs.google.com] of the currently available anti-missile systems - it's kinda my thing :D - and the Point Defense Turret is simply in a class of its own.

[DC Zhor]

Well if you have access to Wanderer weapons, a jump to the Tempest is logical. Personally in the early game FW campaign I use Mules and a quickly assembled Bactrian; mid game I prefer to keep the bactrian and buy some Albatrossess; and by the late game it's either Kar ik Vot 349 or a Hurricane+Derecho+Tempest+Deep River mix. I did check the Coalition ships, and to me they don't even fit the equation.

The antimissiles Korathi ones are pretty good against most human ordnance. I use the Remnant version on my ships though. In large enough numbers they overcome their reduced fire-rate. As for the Wanderer's those get overwhelmed by pretty much anything, even if they are among the lightest out there.

[Belteguesian]

This is the Korath
"anti-missile" 10
"velocity" 350
"lifetime" 1
"reload" 5
"firing energy" 24
"firing heat" 10
And this is the Wanderer
"anti-missile" 40
"velocity" 360
"lifetime" 1
"reload" 20
"firing energy" 50
"firing heat" 12
The first fires 4 times faster than the second, that means that "anti missile", "firing energy" and "firing heat" goes times four per second.
In "real life" two of the first do not allow any Sidewinter/Torpedo/Nuke fired by 2 Cruisers simultaneusly against my ship to impact if I am one cruiser length away from them. Two Shield Beetles combined will hit about 10% of their missiles.
Anyway, works verry well for me at all stages of the game.

[DC Zhor]

Originally posted by Belteguesian:

This is the Korath
"anti-missile" 10
"velocity" 350
"lifetime" 1
"reload" 5
"firing energy" 24
"firing heat" 10
And this is the Wanderer
"anti-missile" 40
"velocity" 360
"lifetime" 1
"reload" 20
"firing energy" 50
"firing heat" 12
The first fires 4 times faster than the second, that means that "anti missile", "firing energy" and "firing heat" goes times four per second.
In "real life" two of the first do not allow any Sidewinter/Torpedo/Nuke fired by 2 Cruisers simultaneusly against my ship to impact if I am one cruiser length away from them. Two Shield Beetles combined will hit about 10% of their missiles.
Anyway, works verry well for me at all stages of the game.

They suffer a bit with Torpedoes though. I wouldn't compare to the Wanderer version though, 3 shots per second is really lacking. Maybe you're lucky and the 10 value for the AM is working for you. It doesn't for me, torpedoes (especially the green ones) pass right through.

[Belteguesian]

Originally posted by Erendelil Bakun:

They suffer a bit with Torpedoes though. I wouldn't compare to the Wanderer version though, 3 shots per second is really lacking. Maybe you're lucky and the 10 value for the AM is working for you. It doesn't for me, torpedoes (especially the green ones) pass right through.

Surprised to hear that, do you have one or two turrets? I alway go with two. The longer the distance you have from the enemy ships the better any anti missile works for sure. This is why you need long range guns to keep them at a distance so your anti missile can do the work.
If you get close it's all a coin toss at best (usually the missiles win).
P.S. This is the reason I prefer the scout to the Clipper in the early stages, the Clipper dos not have any turrets to put any anti missile on, the Scout does (OK a small one but it's OK for that stage of the game (pre FW).

[thorndeux]

Originally posted by Belteguesian:

This is the Korath
"anti-missile" 10
"velocity" 350
"lifetime" 1
"reload" 5
"firing energy" 24
"firing heat" 10
And this is the Wanderer
"anti-missile" 40
"velocity" 360
"lifetime" 1
"reload" 20
"firing energy" 50
"firing heat" 12
The first fires 4 times faster than the second, that means that "anti missile", "firing energy" and "firing heat" goes times four per second.
In "real life" two of the first do not allow any Sidewinter/Torpedo/Nuke fired by 2 Cruisers simultaneusly against my ship to impact if I am one cruiser length away from them. Two Shield Beetles combined will hit about 10% of their missiles.
Anyway, works verry well for me at all stages of the game.

Right, the Korath AM shoots 12 times per second with an AM of 10. The Wanderer AM shoots 3 times per second with an AM of 40. But due to how anti-missiles work in this game...

anti-missile: weapon's ability to shoot down missiles. The anti-missile succeeds if a random integer less than this value is greater than a random integer less than the missile's strength.

...you can't just multiply these together. In short, of the two, the Korath is much better versus the small human missiles, while the Wanderer is better against larger ones, including nukes. The Remnant PDT outclasses both of these completely.