Endless Sky

Endless Sky

space0pilot Sep 30, 2018 @ 2:34pm
Outfits Advice for Bactrian/Shield Beetle Fleet
So I have just bought my first Bactrian and I already have a Shield Beetle (I guess that does not count as spoiler territory as it's all over the forums!) I equipped the Bactrian with A865 steering and it's like a ballet dancer - along with A520 thrusters - jumps systems even faster than the standard equipped SB (Bondir Thruster/Bufaer Steering).

I was running 6 mules and a sole SB - rather fond of the dear old Mules but I think it's time for them to go to pasture and early retirement ... and I'm thinking Bactrian plus a few SBs.

Main Question is re. steering and thrust:

Should I downgrade the Bactrian steering to A525, to maybe save heat and slow it down a bit so SBs can keep up? Or should I upgrade SB steering, and if so to what? (Only Hai and Human tech available at the mo.) I'm not keen on scram drives for fleets as they don't keep together well on multiple jumps and they reduce range.

Secondary question on weapons:

I like hunting and boarding pirates to sell their ships and gain the bounty. I've equipped my first Beetle with:

4 x Heavy Laser
2 x Ion Cannon
2 x Chameleon Anti-Missile Turret
2 x Heavy Laser Turret
2 x Hai Tracker Pod

The Bactrian currently has:

2 x Heavy Anti-Missile Turret
4 x Heavy Laser Turret
2 x Sidewinder Missile Turret
2 x Torpedo Launcher

Any suggestions on better weapon configurations for my purpose of pirate hunting (and survival to jump out of fierce battles)?

Third question on shields and etc.

Shield Beetle has single Hai Diamond Regenerator
Bactrian has single D94-YV

Are there good upgrades for these for survivability?

And any other outfit tips, e.g. additional cooling, battery, power, etc.? (Sometimes in a pirate battle one or two Mules would get disabled with shield to 0.)

Hope this isn't too long a post - but any guidance gratefully received!!!
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Showing 31-45 of 50 comments
Belteguesian Oct 2, 2018 @ 11:08pm 
Originally posted by Belteguesian:
Originally posted by space0pilot:
Thanks for the advice. I've got dual Diamond regen with Helium coolers on all my fleet (Bactrian + 6 SBs). Heavy Lasers and Turrets. With the weight I've had to add to the SBs in Outfit expansions they now turn slightly slower than the Bactrian! Maybe I can upgrade their steering?
You can (I have never tried it) replace their Hai Atomic Steering and Thrusters with Human ones, in general Human Atomics are more efficient . It will also give you some (very small indeed) outfit space.

P.S. the smallest ship I was able to do this was a Shuttle (in steroids!!! AKA atomic engines, the smallest ones and a meteor launcher). I usually finish the FW campaign before going for the Beetle.
Ker Oct 3, 2018 @ 12:35am 
Originally posted by Belteguesian:
There was a post some 20 days ago. I was referring to the pirate systems that FW takes under their wings. Also I personally have to "undo" the domination of the pirate systems of the North cause another <SPOILER>

that is also a huge spoiler, and i simply said that in my long, long time of playing this game and working with it, i have not encountered an instance where domination of pirate planets lead to a storyline breaking for any reason in my personal saves.
space0pilot Oct 5, 2018 @ 4:28am 
Ok - thanks for all the input, and on the other thread about ship physics. I think I'm getting to grips with it - still not sure about optimal configurations. Here is my latest configurations. Now entering spoiler territory, so:

Having discovered the Coalition and Remnant - also encountered the Korath raiders of course (and taken many tens of their ships in Remnant space as well as several jump engines to equip my fleet) - and the friendly Korath - and the nasty ones from whom I beat a very hasty retreat!!!

Bactrian Flagship

outfits "Outfit Scanner" "Fragmentation Grenades" 69 "Large Radar Jammer" "Catalytic Ramscoop" "Heavy Anti-Missile Turret" 2 "Large Battery Module" 3 "Outfits Expansion" 15 "A520 Atomic Thruster" "AR120 Reverse Thruster" "Cloaking Device" "A865 Atomic Steering" "Electron Turret" 2 "Jump Drive" "Hai Diamond Regenerator" "Heavy Laser Turret" 2 "Fusion Reactor" "Large Heat Shunt" 4 "Systems Core (Medium)" 3 "Laser Rifle" 245


8x Shield Beetles (lost one in a final battle and a handful in a massive pirate fight - and bought another one to replace my favourite - the first one bought - that was lost - Iphigenia II)

outfits "Catalytic Ramscoop" "Large Battery Module" 3 "Outfits Expansion" 3 "Quantum Keystone" "Electron Beam" 3 "Electron Turret" 2 "Jump Drive" `"Bufaer" Atomic Steering` "Hai Diamond Regenerator" 2 "Boulder Reactor" "Chameleon Anti-Missile" "Geode Reactor" `"Bondir" Atomic Thruster` "Heavy Laser Turret" "Fuel Pod" "Large Heat Shunt" "Systems Core (Medium)" "Heavy Laser" 3

I kept the Gascraft "just in case" and leave it parked up in FW space. Plus I have a single Albatross - not sure it's that great really?
outfits "Catalytic Ramscoop" "Outfits Expansion" 2 "Jump Drive" "Fuel Pod" "Crystal Capacitor" "Smelter-Class Steering" "Thermoelectric Cooler" 2 "Point Defense Turret" "Quantum Key Stone" "Aeon Cell" "Epoch Cell" "Inhibitor Cannon" 6 "Smelter-Class Thruster" "Thrasher Turret" 2


The Shield Beetles work well - don't overheat even when in battle and being pulverised by the Kor Ereti.


Questions/Thoughts:

Should I junk all the Hai Diamonds and replace with Medium System Cores?

I don't think the Triple Plasma Cores would be significantly better than my current generators.

I'm thinking about better weapons - maybe some Point Defence Turrets on defence but not sure how to improve attack? Maybe I shouldn't have junked those Plasma Turrets?!

I have 500M in the bank. Wondering what new species will turn up with expensive but glorious outfits and ships to buy!
Belteguesian Oct 5, 2018 @ 5:09am 
The configurations are good enough, but I can make a suggestion or two.
First your anti-missile sucks. Try changing to Remnant point defence or Korath Warders (my favourites).

Forget the Triple Plasma Cores they are just a good source of revenue. At this point of your game the best energy/storage you have at the Remnant both in terms of space and heat.

The Albatros automatically regenerates it's hull even during battle!!! Prety difficult to loose one and in the sma price rage (almost) as the SB. I usually have 5 of them and no SB's.

Your weapons right now are medium to short range. Better to hit the enemy from a distance that he can't reach you, it also gives better chances (the long distance) to the Anti-missile to work. Try the Remnant Inhibitor Cannon it's very long range (longer than Ion cannon) and occupies only 13 outfit space!!!! It slows it's target down!!! AND frees outfit space so you can reclaim the cargo you have sacrifized for outfits.

Again this is just some suggestions. Everybody has his own playstyle afterall.

Sometimes Jozef Stalin was right "There is quality in numbers".
Last edited by Belteguesian; Oct 5, 2018 @ 5:10am
thorndeux Oct 5, 2018 @ 7:47am 
In addition to Belteguesian's tips, I would say keep exploring the edges of your known space. There are quite a few nice outfits (and ships!) that you haven't discovered yet :)
patrick Oct 5, 2018 @ 9:52am 
Korath Triple Plasma cores are mostly balanced towards a completly outdated situation, one where

1) Korath Heath Sinks were more powerful
2) Outfit Expansions were called Mass expansions and didn't change your heat stats at all

Now that neither of those things are true anymore, the only place where you would possibly want to use them would be on ships that have very few to no outfit expansions and that have very high mass. Even then i would suggest to go for more efficient reactors because chances once you account for all your weapons and other outfits your heat stats will likely already be quite significant. Even if you want to build ships that can overheat on their own, it's better if most of the heat comes from guns or engines since that means you need to use them for a certain time before overheating.

There's one friendly faction which sells very efficient generators that pretty much outclass everything you can loot/buy on tier 2.

They are called: Wanderers
You can find them: North West of the Hai/North of the Pirates near the Deep
Their reactors are more space efficient than human/hai reactors, they are much more heat efficient and they come with an inbuilt battery. Combined with korath system cores you often don't need extra battery modules at all. The big drawback is that their reactors are very expensive to buy, so don't sell them afterwards.

Other than that, the boulder and geode reactors are quite good so i think they are worth keeping. There are also smaller korath cores, you can consider using them (Plasma Core and Double Plasma Core). They are more mass efficient than hai ones but also produce more heat, it's still manageable enough to use them on hai ships if you use 2 large heat sinks i think, in case you want some small extra power for some extra heat. To be honest, i haven't looked at remnant generators much. Not sure whether it was the cost or the performance, but given that i am usually saving for other reactors i decided to not buy them.

You should switch out all your rifles for fragmentation grenades. They're worth getting and it's a one time only cost with no other drawbacks attached. I usually keep more than i actually need so that i automatically have enough whenever i decide to go for more bunks.

In your situation i would pick large system cores, you can loot them from the korath worldships. Usually 2 large system cores or one large and one medium does the trick for your escorts, i'd reserve the rest of their outfit space for more offensive modules and other things. You can run 3 or 4 large system cores on your bactrian but i usually just use two of them. I like to use as few outfit expansions as possible and sometimes even buy some extra bunks to increase my chances of capping stuff like korath ships.

Personally, i prefer hai engines on my bactrian. The biggest hai engines are a perfect fit for it and make it pretty mobile for such a big ship. Other than that i use bufaer steering and planetary class thrusters (korath) for my shield beetles.

In regard to the weapons, remnant weapons are good as far as i know. Personally i go for electron beams and Korath Disruptors usually, this combination is a bit more efficient than using Korath Disruptors and Slicers in regards to energy and heat use.

Shield beetles are pretty good and i usually don't switch them out until i unlock the slightly better hai carriers (i mean i capture them) . I usually don't use drones but the korath drones are pretty decent, so you can use them.

Although there's always the cost argument attached, the albatross is a decent choice for a ship but personally i never bother buying them because i can steal shield beetles (unfettered) for free and i usually save my money for a fleet of derechos later in the game.
Last edited by patrick; Oct 5, 2018 @ 9:57am
thorndeux Oct 5, 2018 @ 12:40pm 
Originally posted by patrick:
Korath Triple Plasma cores are mostly balanced towards a completly outdated situation, one where

1) Korath Heath Sinks were more powerful
2) Outfit Expansions were called Mass expansions and didn't change your heat stats at all

I still used the Korath reactors as a stepping stone, before I have access to the Wanderer tech. All three of the Korath reactors are still more efficient than the human/Hai variants, even if you include the space needed to offset the massive heat they generate.

Originally posted by patrick:
Personally i go for electron beams and Korath Disruptors usually, this combination is a bit more efficient than using Korath Disruptors and Slicers in regards to energy and heat use.

Electron beams are great! If you can afford the heat cost though, the Slicer/Disruptor combo has a bit more punch to it. The third alternative for me is allout Sunbeams, without Disruptors. You do significantly less damage this way, but the heat damage makes it a lot safer.
Last edited by thorndeux; Oct 5, 2018 @ 12:40pm
Ker Oct 5, 2018 @ 12:54pm 
Or yall can just use plasmas like me, because everything is weak to heat damage, especially the korath and their robits.

Reminder that a navy carrier using nothing but human outfits can 1v1 a tier 2 heavy warship and win because plasma weapons are great - yet not stupidly OP
thorndeux Oct 5, 2018 @ 1:33pm 
Originally posted by Kiko:
Or yall can just use plasmas like me, because everything is weak to heat damage, especially the korath and their robits.

Reminder that a navy carrier using nothing but human outfits can 1v1 a tier 2 heavy warship and win because plasma weapons are great - yet not stupidly OP
Yeah, those are pretty neat too. Especially early on.
patrick Oct 5, 2018 @ 2:27pm 
Yes, i use the korath reactors as stepping stones aswell. I was talking about the triple plasma core specifically in that comment. While it is efficient if you don't bring in Wanderer reactors into the equation, you produce alot of energy and very much heat for more energy than you usually need at that time. Not neccercarily more than you can use, but with system cores and maybe some other energy storage you can keep the energy demand below that. Especially since i like using outfit expansions as much as i can (although i put them away if not using them is more heat efficient than using them with korath cooling) i didn't find using a triple core on a shield beetle to be a good tradeoff. A single and a double plasma core give you about 2k energy instead of 2.6k for slightly less tonnage and ~3000 less heat. The triple core might be more efficient than those, but it doesn't matter if picking the triple core (and sufficient cooling/leaving outfit expansions behind) means i have to put less stuff on my shield beetle. Especially since bringing less stuff means i don't need energy as badly.

I usually try somewhat different builds, but a pretty standard thing is 2 electron turrets, 4 electron beams, two slicers, a large and a middle system core (plus all that other stuff like engines, i'm not going to list all). I usually found that to run pretty nicely on that amount of energy. Against certain other outfits the triple plasma core simply doesn't compare at all, especially if you bring a certain number of outfit expansions. And with beetles i tend to bring all 7.

I tried slicer disruptor combos and electrom disruptor combos, but packing more slicers means packing less electron beams. I rather pick more energy/heat efficient guns and more of them on the beetle, since they have alot of weapon ports and bringing more (heat/energy inefficient) higher tier weapons means needing a bigger reactor, more cooling and/or less outfit expansions and the outfit space ends up getting a bit cramped that way. It means less range, though.

Originally posted by Kiko:
Or yall can just use plasmas like me, because everything is weak to heat damage, especially the korath and their robits.

Reminder that a navy carrier using nothing but human outfits can 1v1 a tier 2 heavy warship and win because plasma weapons are great - yet not stupidly OP

I remember i did a run where i packed all my shield beetles with 4 ion guns and 4 plasma guns. They were pretty good but they started overkilling stuff.
Last edited by patrick; Oct 5, 2018 @ 2:31pm
space0pilot Oct 5, 2018 @ 2:47pm 
The Bactrian really suffers from heat once you get past like 15 Outfit Expansions. Is that some kind of breaking point? Anyone know the calculation for how Outfit expansions impact heat - as a few don't change much but there seems to be breaking point when it gets out of control.
thorndeux Oct 5, 2018 @ 3:06pm 
Good points about the plasma cores. I agree.

Originally posted by patrick:
I usually try somewhat different builds, but a pretty standard thing is 2 electron turrets, 4 electron beams, two slicers, a large and a middle system core (plus all that other stuff like engines, i'm not going to list all). I usually found that to run pretty nicely on that amount of energy. Against certain other outfits the triple plasma core simply doesn't compare at all, especially if you bring a certain number of outfit expansions. And with beetles i tend to bring all 7.

I tried slicer disruptor combos and electrom disruptor combos, but packing more slicers means packing less electron beams. I rather pick more energy/heat efficient guns and more of them on the beetle, since they have alot of weapon ports and bringing more (heat/energy inefficient) higher tier weapons means needing a bigger reactor, more cooling and/or less outfit expansions and the outfit space ends up getting a bit cramped that way. It means less range, though.

I made this spreadsheet[docs.google.com] a while back, to try different setups (in the first sheet) and simulate how they would do against different ships (in the second sheet). Feel free to make a copy and play around with it. It's veeery slow, though :D

You get slightly more damage out of 4 Slicers vs. 8 electron beams, but you are right that they producs a lot more heat. A lot depends on how many ships you have in your fleet, how many ships are attacking a target (i.e. how many Disruptors per target), etc.

I'd love to put a few Ion cannons in my setups, because they are great at disabling. But they push away the target, so you can't combine them very well with short-ranged beam weapons.
Last edited by thorndeux; Oct 5, 2018 @ 3:09pm
thorndeux Oct 5, 2018 @ 3:08pm 
Originally posted by space0pilot:
The Bactrian really suffers from heat once you get past like 15 Outfit Expansions. Is that some kind of breaking point? Anyone know the calculation for how Outfit expansions impact heat - as a few don't change much but there seems to be breaking point when it gets out of control.

Look here[github.com] and check for the 'cooling inefficiency' stat.

I find that after 4-5 outfit expansions the room you need for added cooling usually exceeds what you get out of it.
Last edited by thorndeux; Oct 5, 2018 @ 3:09pm
space0pilot Oct 6, 2018 @ 1:05pm 
So thanks for all the advice, and with an admixture of independent thinking, configured my fleet such that we survived (as in destroyed the enemy, not just jumped out in a hurry) against the Korath automata factions while following the Wanderers through wormhole (but where did they go - can't work that out yet LOL

My fleet has been enhanced with a couple of Tempest warships. Wondering whether to upgrade to Derecho or wait for the Hurricane I accidentally read about. All very expensive. May have to return to Coalition space or Remnant space to earn more cash - I'm down to my last 400M and Wanderer jobs are fewer and less lucrative now the Hai have take half their worlds.

I decided heat damage could be useful as well as ranged attacks and efficient anti-missile systems. May have overdone the anti-missile, may tune that back a bit, as most enemies now get really close and personal.

Current outfits - removing boring or obvious ones

Bactrian
"Point Defense Turret" 2 "Sunbeam Turret" "Electron Turret" 2 "Outfits Expansion" 6 "White Sun Reactor" "Large Battery Module" 2 "Systems Core (Large)" "Systems Core (Medium)" "Dark Storm Shielding" "Large Heat Shunt" 2 `"Bufaer" Atomic Steering` `"Bondir" Atomic Thruster`

Shield Beetles(9) - very mixy-matchy on weapons, a bit of everything
"Electron Beam" 2 Sunbeam "Inhibitor Cannon" "Plasma Cannon" "Heavy Laser" 2 "Electron Turret" 2 "Sunbeam Turret" "Wanderer Anti-Missile" "White Sun Reactor" "Large Battery Module" 3 "Systems Core (Large)" "Dark Storm Shielding" "Large Heat Shunt" `"Bufaer" Atomic Steering` `"Bondir" Atomic Thruster`

Albatross
"Electron Beam" 2 "Inhibitor Cannon" 2 Sunbeam "Sunbeam Turret" 2 "Point Defense Turret" "White Sun Reactor" "Crystal Capacitor" "Large Battery Module" "Dark Storm Shielding" 2 "Thermoelectric Cooler" 2 `"Bondir" Atomic Thruster` `"Bondir" Atomic Steering`

Tempest (2)
Sunbeam 2 "Dual Sunbeam Turret" "Wanderer Anti-Missile" 2 "Thunderhead Launcher" 2 "Yellow Sun Reactor" 2 "Dark Storm Shielding" "Type 4 Radiant Thruster" "Type 4 Radiant Steering"


I think for the next phase - just to make things easier for me - I need to decide on my flagship and escorts, using a maximum of 3 ship models. I also recognise that with the newest ships available I'll need loads of cash to buy them, but outfits from my current fleet will be useful in equipping them to some extent.
space0pilot Oct 6, 2018 @ 1:49pm 
I found them...
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Date Posted: Sep 30, 2018 @ 2:34pm
Posts: 50