First game with Witch: Impressions

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Finally finished my Witch game with a supreme win. I lowered the difficulty a bit from Knight to Butler since it was my first try but I think I could have just left it on Knight difficulty how the game went. I played on a medium map with three AI opponents like usual. The AI players turned out to be Warlock, Senator (I always get this one for some reason) and High Priestess.

But Jesus, the Witch is just one scary chick. Not only does she get a good fungi economy rolling pretty fast, she's also rather cheap to upgrade, especially considering my last games with the High Priestess. Especially the T2 upgrade to a full witch for 150 fungi is almost a steal. Not upgrading a Witch's Apprentice immediately to T2 would be almost a sin.

She's also very flexible if there isn't much wilderness around since she can easily transform farms to swamp. In combination with Miasma, she can not only cripple the opponents economies but also close armies with the poison clouds.

The fast progress makes her all the more impressive since she gets also very powerful in late game. Having several immortal Bog Witches with necromancy and witchery spells backed up by a bunch of powerful monsters like the Ancient Hydra (Armor 4!!!) is almost impossible to beat with conventional troops anymore.

The Witch also has a bunch of useful utility spells like Mirror Mirror that lets her see the closest opponent, Bog Eye to find close swamps, Bog Path for fast travel between swamps, Miasma for 'indirect' siege and army killer or Murderous Mist for town defense that gives her a lot of strategic options to find enemies, track them down, cripple them or defend against them.
The only thing I was missing was a forest control spell like the Druid to avoid annoying recaptures of forests. Not because she'd be really needing it considering she's already quite powerful, but more to reduce the annoying micro of recapturing. Something like a big dominator fungus in a swamp maybe?!

Furthermore, Androphag troops are pretty good although the better ones cost fungi as well. But that's often easier to get than iron.

T1 spells:
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Minor Summoning:
An okay spell for low level summons. Usually it's not required very long since getting to T2 for the better version is so easy. Price is okay for 15 fungi I guess but I would have preferred more influence of the summoning location on the creature I get.

Swamp Guardians:
Somehow dissapointing since it seems to work like a weaker version of Minor Summoning. I would have preferred a bigger emphasis on stationary and slow defense troops instead of just weaker ones.

Marshlands:
Transforms a farm for 25 fungi into a swamp. Very neat if there are lots of farms around, especially if there isn't much wilderness available. It can be devastating for an opponent if combined with Miasma. Best T1 spell IMHO since it's useful until end game.
The explanation in the spell description is a bit far-fetched though. Would have preferred something more nasty with sacrifice. Otherwise I don't buy that you can change a farm but another tile like a forest for example. The game mechanic is good, the explanation not.

Bog Eye:
Reveals a swamp for 10 fungi. Not sure if it's the closest. Didn't really need it, but it might be useful it scouting options are limited. Probably one of the weaker T1 spells since it's very situational.

T2 spells:
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Major Summoning:
Decent T2 summoning spell although the summons are a bit too random for my taste. Would also preferred more influence of the summoning location on the creature I get here. I liked the Doppelganger captains since they could help at sieges with their full range first strikes and mutations. Cubes would have been nice if they wouldn't be slow.
Price for 75 fungi was okay though I used it most with 125 % sacrifice for about 90 fungi since that appeared reliable for the most part.

Mirror Mirror:
Shows an opponent for 10 fungi. I used it a few times to find the opponent in late game. I guess in MP it might be even a game deciding spell because of it's tactical usability both for attack and defense.

Murderous Mists:
Town defense spell for 100 fungi. I almost never used it and I never saw how effective it is. I guess it can be pretty useful for defense. I was mostly attacking and had almost no towns, so I didn't really need it.

Miasma:
Cast on a swamp to get poison clouds in the surrounding area for 100 fungi. It also spawns some low level monsters from time to time. Can be devastating if used in combination with Marshlands close to an enemy town. The poison clouds can poison whole armies and defending forces. Also convenient as a self defense and control spell for swamps.

T3 spells:
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Summon Old One:
Summons a powerful monster... provided you don't get an Erinye which is close to a spell failure considering how useless she is. The other summons like Ancient Hydras, Wyrms, Swamp Gods, Ancient Presence or Mother of Monsters are great though. Especially the Ancient Hydra with her tank armor of 4, regeneration, posion cloud and lots of attacks is great. I had three of them and they were close to invincible and ripped almost everything apart that came close to them. The definite summoning spell for the Witch. Especially since T3 isn't that hard to get. Not sure if you can get a commander here - I never got one. I guess the Erinye would have sucked less if she would have been a commander with some spells.
Price is good with 400 fungi, although 125 % sacrifice should be minimum for a reliable result. Realistic price would therfore be 500 - 600 fungi.

Swamp Soul:
Expensive but good spell for 600 fungi to make the Witch immortal as long as you have a swamp in possession. Even better, if she's killed she turns into an undead Bog Witch which has better stats and also T1 and T2 necromancy spells. Give her some Old One monsters and she should be able to handle even Demon Lords.

Bog Path:
Allows army transfer between swamps for 300 fungi. Can be usefull to get big armies to the front or back. I didn't need it in my game, but it's a good utility spell I think. Probably even better than the druid version since she can get more swamps via farms.


Most funny thing in my game was probably my attempt to sacrifice my second Hag to get a Bog Witch since she simply refused to die. I sent her two times alone against wild life and she just charmed part of them as new body guards and killed the rest with her spells. How could she be so stubborn?! I just wanted her to die for her own good. That shouldn't be so hard to understand, right?!

Anyway, I guess the Witch was the most powerful character class I played so far. She also has some cool game mechanics and more than just random summon spells. I'd still rate her a bit lower than Druid and High Priestess since the summons are too random and the Marshlands spell lacks a good explanation why it just works on farms.

New class rating: Druid = High Priestess > Witch > Voice of El > High Cultist

Next class I'll try will probably be the Necromancer.

[Foddercat]

Swamp Guardians can be used in jungle and forest tiles, and it quite often summons mushrooms. Death, Devil, and Blood fungus are all forest stealthed too, and the Death Fungus use corpses to reproduce.

It's still clearly the weakest of the Witch's summoning rituals though. Especially if you keep getting the frog familiar.

[niddhoger]

Bog eye is mentioned to be used in conjunction with mirror mirror and bog path. Find enemy, scry nearest swamp, bog path to say "hello". On smaller maps, you might can get away with just casting more summons, but on larger ones its indispensable. I found an enemy late game, found a bog next to their starting citadel,then knocked on their dor in the same turn.

The poisonous mist is devastating. I had to fight against it one game. It's like a pre-battle assassination strike that poisons every enemy. The poison amount is probably random, but it will shred standard recruitment. I had a 60 strong armor of humans, backed up by a couple of mages and some siege. I think there were only 20 androphage behind the walls.

Marshlands is the mirror spell of the Baron's drain swamp. Their t1 priests, friars, can do it. The idea is that the Baron first drained the swamp for a farm, so now the witch is here to reclaim he wikds and reverse the damage. Swamps dwindle and farms boom going from dark age to agricultural, and this fits the narrative. The Baron " games" the wilds for civilization, but this angers the Old Ones. Then the witches strike back on behalf of their Ancient masters to bring "peace" back to the wilds.

The class probably has one of the weakest starts,though. Your fungus is needed for summons and troops. Your spells have poor synergy too. What is the point of charming an enemy you already loaded with 25 points of poison? Between charm and confusion recruits, I lost track of how many would-be converts I had killed by my own poison. They also lack any form of siege (druid can summon it, and TK giants throw boulders). The couple assassination is also randomly targeted, so hits enemy mages less frequently. You also face tough matchups against the warlock, necro, enchanter, and to a lesser extent HC. All 4 are poison immune, and the first three are going to be sleep/charm immune. Worse, a necro can disease/decay your regenerators. Normally, regen trumps decay, but disease halves the regen value. I used that trick with my markgraf vamps to kill off a TK's troll army.

That being said, the witch is truly a powerhouse when she gets rolling,but otherwise suffers a terrible start with a narrow national focus.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Yeah, the friendly fire with the poison could be quite annoying at the start. Though it helps to handpick spells if possible. Fortunately there are also Androphag Spearmen available that don't require fungi. Though the bigger problem at the start was that she didn't get much gold at all.

I noticed the poison / charm problem too, but compared to the completely useless combat summon spells of the High Priestess, this was nothing.

The Marshlands mirror spell is an interesting background info. Didn't know that.

[Strategiusz]

My impression (or a semi-guide for noobs)

I have played mainly Baron and then Troll so I was thinking Witch will be hard to play with lots of magic and not intuitive gameplay. I was wrong, I think Witch is very easy to play for new players.

The only problem can be very beginning of the game because there is no gold income and the initial army is weak, just a few archers and spearmen. No, don't rush the nearest town, mine or guarded village! The main resource are fungi here, not gold and not iron. Tag forests and swamps with your color, and secure gold income places only if there is a good opportunity to do this.

Economy
Based on fungi from forests, jungle, swamps. The best season is autumn. The snowy terrain is bad for them. They can be even bough for gold. Iron can be sold.

Recruitable units
Androphag Spearmen, Androphag Archers - if you have gold to spend you can buy them and use. If you have Charm spell you can consider to not use Archers because poison often kills your just captured units.
Androphag Cavalries - fast units for easy short battles where their charge has a decisive matter.
And thats all. No more units.

Recruitable commanders
Androphag Lord - low HP frontliner, that means he is unsuitable for battles with dangerous enemies. But if there are bigger monsters in your army then the Lord will be placed on the flank and he can sometimes avoid risk of fight with dangerous enemy units in that way. This commander probably is mainly for patrolling against weak monsters that stealing your forests and for logistic jobs.
Manflyer - he is rare and he is precious. It is just a level 1 death mage but he unlocks a new resource - Hands of Glory. There is probably only one way to exploit the hands - by summoning lesser undead with Manflyer. He can create his own army of ghosts, some dire wolves, banes, some zombies etc. He has 4 AP so he can do rituals in the same turn he is moving (because his army will have 2 or 3 AP).
Witch’s Apprentice - rare and precious level 1 witch which can be upgraded to level 3. You must have at least one witch to have mushroom income and to summoning monsters to your army. But more witches is always better. Level 3 is expensive and it depends on the map size how many level 3 witches you need, but level 2 should be a standard.
Some other mages - they can appear sometimes and you should have always enough gold to buy them.

Some witchery rituals:
Level 1
Marshlands - I think it is a good idea to turn all farms to swamps.
Minor Summoning - until you don't have access to Major Summoning this is necessary to create some units for your army
Swamp Guardians - it creates weak or stationary units.
Level 2
Major Summoning - probably the most important ritual. If you has weak army you can push 150% more fungi (red slider above) to minimize chance that a summoned monster will attack you. If you has strong army with a lots of archers you are not afraid that the monster will kill you, but that you will kill him instead of charm.
Level 3
Sorry, I have used only one spell once from that level. The monster was big and scary, but it costs me 600 fungi. Then all my witches died when I tried to conquer some cosmic space or something XD. But I won the game because the AI was even more stupid than me and he send his last commander with a weak army to my territory.

Battle magic:
Mainly charms, sleepers and poison. Be ware that mindless monsters can't be charmed. And undead units can't be charmed, put to sleep nor poisoned.
Charm spell is important and I captured a big gryphon, elephant, Creeping Doom, a few unsuccessful summons and many other units.

[MKCyborg]

I personally use Swamp Guardians to get some cheap defense on my citadel and on Ancient Forests. It keeps weaker monsters from wandering through and capturing it.

[niddhoger]

The problem with swamp guardians is that its mostly the mushrooms. Unless you get the kill/sleep ones, the poison/decay will not be strong enogh to kill the invader before the invader kills the mshrooms. You really have to have -something- (poison immune) to back up the shrooms.

[Foddercat]

Originally posted by niddhoger:

The problem with swamp guardians is that its mostly the mushrooms. Unless you get the kill/sleep ones, the poison/decay will not be strong enogh to kill the invader before the invader kills the mshrooms. You really have to have -something- (poison immune) to back up the shrooms.

Death Fungus is actually probably the most useful overall swamp guardian. It consumes corpses to passively reproduce, which not only makes them more dangerous, but also helps keep the corpse piles down when playing against necromancers. The best thing about them, though, is they are forest stealthy, and they cause decay. Most top tier units are immune to poison, but hardly anything is immune to decay, and where poison just does damage, decay is almost a sure kill every time.

That said, you only get the Death Fungus maybe one time in eight? Maybe less, maybe more.

On the other hand, if you're using swamp guardians to keep independents from retaking your swamps and forests, then you want the blue giants. Like you said, they're the most likely to survive when being attacked, so they can defend a square for much longer than the other guardians. So maybe its mosre accurate to say that the Blue Giant is the best early game guardian, while the Death Fungus are the best late game guardian.

Watching a bunch of elementals and purple worms rot to nothing after blundering into a half dozen mushrooms is pretty satisfying though. Summoning five frog familiars in a row, not so much.

[niddhoger]

That's ust it though- the death fungus will likely just die before hte other. Sure, it takes w/e that was with it, but you lose the guardian (and posession too iirc). Remember, Decay is supposed to be 10% of max HP a turn (rounded up to 1). It can't stack like poison, either, so the fungus has to last 5-10 turns of being attacked to survive and reproduce. It also can't outpace regeneration without disease or another source of damage, either. Ofc, the time it takes poison to outpace regeneration the mushroom is long dead... outside of the blue caps with their sleep/poison combo.

[Foddercat]

Originally posted by niddhoger:

That's ust it though- the death fungus will likely just die before hte other. Sure, it takes w/e that was with it, but you lose the guardian (and posession too iirc). Remember, Decay is supposed to be 10% of max HP a turn (rounded up to 1). It can't stack like poison, either, so the fungus has to last 5-10 turns of being attacked to survive and reproduce. It also can't outpace regeneration without disease or another source of damage, either. Ofc, the time it takes poison to outpace regeneration the mushroom is long dead... outside of the blue caps with their sleep/poison combo.

Well, yeah... but Swamp Guardians only costs 10-15 fungus to cast, and only a single AP too. It's one of the cheapest summons in the game, and while a lot of the time it will be a bust, those Death Fungus can really put the hurt on an unprepared stack of dudes. True, most of the time, the Death Fungus will get killed by a couple of bears or moose, but sometimes you'll kill an abomination, a gryphon, a giant, or more. Where even the blue giant is completely helpless against undead, or the Enchanter's animated minions, Death Fungus will take down a few of whatever attacks most of the time. Not bad for a very small investment of fungus.

I think the problem is that you assume that Swamp Guardians are supposed to be some sort of powerful blockers who hold the line. They're more of a basic weak situational summon. They give you sight of an area, prevent squares from being taken by a single snake or deer, and can set the odd trap for an army with no acute senses. If they were more reliable than that, they'd be too powerful given their tiny cost. They are the weakest of the Witch's summons, but also the cheapest, so they should be the weakest.

[niddhoger]

Its just that the entire catalouge of swamp "guardians" is either stationary or slow. So yeah, I assumed they were supposed to stay put in the swamps and prevent them from being retaken by at least indies. I've seen too many mauled by bears for that, though. And the swamp in question already gives you vision of the area.