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Given that CoE's unit descriptions are written from the point of view of an in-game narrator with limited knowledge and strong cultural biases, it seems reasonable that their names might also be influenced by similar considerations.
Yeah that's fair I guess I didn't think about it like that.
Wow, that was well typed.
I'm playing the Witch right now, she's one of the few Classes that doesn't seem to have been nerfed into oblivion.
To clarify for confused readers: Farsight, while a skilled and knowledgeable player, as far as I understand it, tends to play with a small group of friends on very large maps in a rather non-competitive and explorative fashion.
The Inferno *is* intended to be a serious challenge. And generally speaking it absolutely is, unless you yourself are a save-scumming demonologist, or have turtled well past the point when the game should reasonably have ended.
Hold onto it? The Inferno is very hotly contested :D, if you're the first Player there you're going to have to fight your way through the Demonic Horde. If you're the last Player there, then you're going to be up against upto 15 other heavily entrenched Players that're going to make you wish you were facing off against the Lords of Inferno.
Idealy, you want to be the fourth or fifth Player there. Most of the roamers are exterminated, and there are usually still some mines left to flag.
That's a little discourteous, especially since you don't actually know me, or what my playing habits are.
I actually play with a large closed group of people, a few of them are my friends, a few of them hate me with a fierce burning passion. Most are old collegues and peers, and their friends, family, partners, ect. There is a core group of 17 of us who used to play two 8 Players games of Conquest of Elysium 3, now we play two 16 Player games of conquest of Elysium 4. We also play smaller games with others in the group who aren't quite as dedicated enough to commit the time to play a 16 Player game.
When playing a 16 Player game, there are no special rules or honorable code of conduct. If Players want to make tile exchanges, trade map information, or pledge alliances, there is nothing preventing it, but there's also nothing reinforcing it. Of course a Player is only as good as their word, and while some people can forgive and forget, most can and will hold some pretty intense grudges.
Our games range from casual to competitive based on how people are feeling and choose to play, but no matter how competitive we choose to play, our core group is extremely compotent and very experienced. In a very casual game where everyone is taking it easy, no one is going to be speed rushing the Inferno, but eventually, someone will get around to invading it, and from there it's only a matter of time before it's conquered. In a competitive game, you might get a very early triumvirate alliance purchasing a Tunnel to the Inferno from a Pale Ones Player, or maybe a Pale Ones Player will hire some of another Players armies to clear the Inferno out for themselves. In either case, once the breach is secured, and a foothold in the Inferno is established, it's only a matter of time before the Inferno collapses.
The thing about challenges is that they stop being challenges once they've been surpassed.
The Inferno is only challenging to beginners. Once you've acquired enough knowledge and gained enough experience, the games passive challenges stop being challenging.
This is the mainstream standard, not something that is unique to my playing group, but something that all Players will be able to achieve after playing the game naturally and growing as Players. My playing group while special to me, isn't remarkably special from any other group of dedicated gamers.
You've played this game all of 70 hours alguLoD, get a couple hundred more hours under your belt and you'll be ravaging the Inferno along with the rest of us.
xxx
Farsight, I say that because I remember this song and dance from the days of Conquest of Elysium 3, when you played in a similarly bizarre meta. Let me put it simply: for a game to drag on for a thousand turns requires a stable equilibrium that Conquest of Elysium simply is not mechanically set up for.
There is a limited amount of territory. This is not a 4x game where the numbers keep going up on their own; there is only a limited amount of income available, and whoever controls that has an advantage that can quickly spiral into a greater advantage. There is no upkeep for recruited or summoned units, but they can die pretty quickly. There are very few ways of increasing your income without fighting and a lot of ways to permanently destroy sources of income. This is by design. Do you, incidentally, consider the High Priestess a weak class?
Skill and victory lies in understanding the game's mechanics and extrapolating risk and reward from that, and pushing constantly and hard to rob the enemy of their resources while retaining them for yourself. By your guides you seem to understand these principles, so I cannot quite fathom how you nevertheless end up in games that drag out to such an extent.
As an example: if, as a Troll King, you summon a dragon, and your enemy could not kill you before that point, you have a considerable advantage that you can now use to push the enemy, seize their territory, and kill any smaller forces they might possess. If the enemy is in the right position they might still recover and perhaps acquire some sort of counter, but the summoning of the first dragon is a considerable upset, as should the second one. You use them to kill the enemy. Either you succeed and the enemy dies or you fail and you are now vulnerable. But if you fail there, the enemy would have been able to kill you before and should have done so. The game is not remotely balanced enough for a match to remain stable past the first player achieving T3.
Of course, you play with sixteen players on huge maps, probably not available through the game's own GUI, instead being enabled through the commandline. This might explain how your games turn out the way that they do, as there are sixteen separate minds each trying to make sure that none other becomes dominant, and each striving not to open themselves up to attack and defeat from another. Back in CoE3 you also mentioned having access to a hundred relics per turn, and *that*, I should remark, I should have mentioned and underlined then. There's not a hundred relics' of income available on most maps at all, and this was the case back then as well. And needless to say, when such is available, it would normally require control of most of the map.
That is not, however, exemplary. You cannot take anything from a game like that and apply standard terminology. If you define "mid-game" based on how a map that size turns out, your definition is dreadfully flawed. The game accomodates that, but it's not designed or balanced around it. You play with a cautious group with a cautious playstyle on maps of such size and form that they encourage caution and passivity.
The game's standard map size is the "medium" sized map. That's why it's called that. That's why it's the one that's selected by default when you start the game. The movement point system is designed around seventy squares being a long blood way, not the distance between two edges of your territory. On a standard map you will never get an experience like yours, Farsight, so neither should you claim that your experience is standard or, indeed, expected or desireable.
It is not a matter of growth or skill. These are factors, but only to the point where you understand how dangerous a demon is relative to other things in the game. No, conquering Inferno isn't even difficult, not if you give yourself access to such a huge map and to such a huge amount of time that you can amass a massive enough quantity in resources that you can take the battle to Inferno on equal grounds. But in a regular map, the forces of Inferno will dramatically exceed that of any given player, because, by the time a player has enough of a force to tackle Inferno, the game should already have collapsed into a victory-state for the first player to achieve that level of power.
If you want to question my credentials, you are underinformed. I do not generally launch CoE4 through Steam, but rather directly through the executable. I use Steam largely for downloading upgrades, but I dislike all that it attaches to the gaming experience. Nowadays I only use Steam when absolutely necessary. Seventy hours would undersell the amount of time I spent in the closed beta, much less the total playtime. I do not track such things, but certainly I have spent at least three or four hundred hours in the game. I do not feel the need to pre-emptively throw about misguided boasts to score debate points, but you can be assured that, were we to solve this debate by appeal to authority, you would not be the victor.
I absolutely have conquered Inferno, not to mention Agartha and the Elemental Planes - the Void and Hades I have not explored as thoroughly as I might like, but my time is not infinite and I do not generally prefer the classes that can explore these places.
What I did, then, was that I marginalized the other classes active on the map and spent a great deal of time accumulating the needed resources. And that *takes time* on a normal map. You simply cannot accumulate the resources needed to defeat Inferno's armies in a short frame of time, and not at all if you're actually contesting other factions of equal power. If your armies are constantly and reliably increasing in size, I would state outright that you are doing something *wrong.* Or rather, your enemy is. He's not attacking you, pushing for your resources and citadels. You are not fighting. You are not suffering from any kind of attrition. Neither is treally contesting to claim the resources that will give you the advantage you need to win.
And maybe that's natural when there are eight or sixteen intelligent players with no set teams. But that situation is in of itself unusual, and you cannot define any meta-terminology based on that.
As you identify yourself in some of your guides, most games end no later than what you would call the "late early-game." This is, frankly, because that's about how long games are expected to run. This is Conquest of Elysium, not Dominions. The independents are a serious problem, not some early-game obstacle to be crushed and forgotten before the game itself beings as you accumulate an endless amount of resources that lets you build up enough of a force to secure and garrison every single piece of your territory.
That is not the late early-game. The late-game is defined by T3 summons and mages coming to the fore. This is the beginning of the end. Not the end of the beginning.
You are right that your group of gamers isn't anything special in terms of skill. You are, however, playing the game in a way that I can state for a fact the developers did not really expect or intend. While it is valid, it is not a place you can realistically give advice from or make high-handed statements regarding the nature or course of the game.
Summon Demon Lord is mostly there for flavor. It's not really a great ritual and I have trouble thinking of a situation where a Demonologist who was trying to win would actually use it.
Generally you would do it more for RP purposes. Maybe your demonologist enjoys commanding demons so much that he wants to rule over all of them. Or maybe he's seeking revenge after an Infernal invasion of his home world. Or maybe he's just straight-up ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy. You'd be more likely to attack Inferno for fun than for strategic gain.