Thief VS Dishonored

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Let's have a fun debate! Dishonored vs Thief. Which do you prefer, and why?
They are quite different games if you're familiar with both, but there's no denying the similarities, and this is just for fun.

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Here's my unedited response to someone on an article who replied to me disagreeing with his comment that Dishonored is better than Thief in every way.

He said: "Please do not compare that objectively garbage franchise (Thief). No powers, smaller levels, no 10 approaches to each mission, no multiple endings, yikes. So happy it's dead. Can't wait for Arkane studio's new ips at Bethesda's E3."

My response: No powers is a positive. It's a stealth game. The whole point is that you're not meant to be powerful. Dishonored 1 is the easiest game I've ever played, even on Very Hard. No exaggeration, and I barely use anything other than Blink because I do stealth.
Thief's levels aren't smaller generally, but who cares about the size? The level design is what's important, and Dishonored's level design doesn't hold a candle to Thief's with its incredibly easy traversal that allows you to bypass all of the game's challenges simply by looking up and pressing left click with the blink power.

It's far less interesting and immersive and severely lacks the atmosphere and challenge found in Thief's levels. It's also very, very repetitive, especially in Dishonored 2. The same streets over and over with very similarly structured buildings make up for about surely at least 90% of the levels. And all those approaches are a detriment to the game's difficulty. I mean, you could do one of the nine of those obvious approaches, but why would you when the most simple one is also the easiest to do. All those choices just make it easier. Thief balances it right, giving you many options each with advantages and disadvantages for picking them, be it by giving you more loot, having less enemies, having noisier floor etc. etc.

And really? Who cares about multiple endings, lol. Especially when the endings in these games have far more impact. I mean, you defeat a God in the first game and send the world into an entire different age for the sequel that changes that game's art-style, story and gameplay massively. Plus, Dishonored's multiple endings amount to you being punished for playing the game the way it was obviously mainly intended by killing people, which is absurd. tl;dr Dishonored is great, I'm a fan myself, but it really is nothing compared to Thief. It's a poor man's Deus Ex that blatantly steals from both games but simplifies it to the point that it's all flash, no substance, and is mind-numbingly easy. Sound was one of Thief's biggest gameplay elements that hugely effected stealth and still has yet to be replicated, and it's almost totally missing in Dishonored (simplified to the point that running = noise, crouching = silent... that's it....), and that's just one example.

I probably have written enough so I'll leave it there besides to ask, why on Earth would you be happy the series is dead? It's a video game series. No need to take it so seriously. You're basically just saying you're happy that other people are missing out on something they would absolutely love because you personally are not a fan of the series. What an incredibly petty thing to say, lol, but hey, that's the video game community for you.

[Semipalmated Plover]

Originally posted by AlexKnight:

These games have one absolutely identical feature. In both serial games, the main characters have best friends - City Watch Guard.

Taffers.

[Freak4Leeks]

Originally posted by Tomorrow Never Knows:

Let's have a fun debate!

This is the steam forums so that is impossible.

But to me Dishonored will always have a deep place in my heart, i love its lore so much i love the world and i have never loved the characters of a game so much even the villans like slackjaw i loved his style. Lets organize this more.

> Characters; i love them, they are absolutely amazing i cared for every single one even some of the random ones i generally enjoyed so much, random NPCs personality is usually what determined whether i killed them or not lul. There voice actors were amazing and i felt sympathy for the random civilians looking through trash and coughing and getting sick. Just beautiful.

>Powers & Gadgets; This is by far my favorite game due to this part, the powers and gadgets combined can do some crazy stuff that are just so cool and it just breaths freedom to do whatever the hell you want, i dunno if you guys have seen him but "StealthGamerBR" search him on youtube and look at his dishonored 1 & 2 Videos they are insane he does stuff that i didn't even think was possible until watching him its actually insane the stuff you can do, and this part alone is why Dishonored surpasses Thief which had great moments but was way to grounded in comparison to dishonored, but i absolutely see the appeal and i still love thief (the newest one though was a huge disappointment though) but to dishonored it will never have the same impact on me.

>Choice; This is where i think Dishonored and Thief are more tied or thief surpasses, in terms of map choice (such as routes to target) i think thief has that against Dishonored, although once again due to dishonored's Powers you feel like you found a more natural way through that the developers weren't intending, Dishonored's targets have a nonlethal and lethal approach which is great and the nonlethal approach is always great and logical such as Heretic Brand, the twins put to work in their own mines

>Story; Loved it, it is one of the few stories that held my attention and the mini stories throughout were also captivating, and depending on what you did watching how people react to you and emily, Thief (ill talk about the newest one here because i cant for the life of me remember the story of the others" is being a thief and stealing a artifact and stuff (now that i think about it i cant quite remember this one either) which didnt really hold me like dishonored.

>Atmosphere/Style/period; The fact that this is set in a steampunk era is just a insane plus i have had a extreme fascination for ages ever since playing "ARCANUM: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura" which i fell in love with, and then even more so with the plague i love stuff involving the plague (only disappointment was no Plague Doctors). Although i loved the dark atmosphere of thief nothing can hold up to a steampunk setting with the plague for me.

Well if you got here without skipping GG thanks for reading, to OP i hope you enjoyed because no doubt this one of the few responses you will get without it being cancer.

If i want to play something like thief but with powers; Then Dark Messiah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7T9tJiw6AU Beautiful brings a tear to my eye.

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by Freak4Leeks:

Originally posted by Tomorrow Never Knows:

Let's have a fun debate!

This is the steam forums so that is impossible.

But to me Dishonored will always have a deep place in my heart, i love its lore so much i love the world and i have never loved the characters of a game so much even the villans like slackjaw i loved his style. Lets organize this more.

> Characters; i love them, they are absolutely amazing i cared for every single one even some of the random ones i generally enjoyed so much, random NPCs personality is usually what determined whether i killed them or not lul. There voice actors were amazing and i felt sympathy for the random civilians looking through trash and coughing and getting sick. Just beautiful.

>Powers & Gadgets; This is by far my favorite game due to this part, the powers and gadgets combined can do some crazy stuff that are just so cool and it just breaths freedom to do whatever the hell you want, i dunno if you guys have seen him but "StealthGamerBR" search him on youtube and look at his dishonored 1 & 2 Videos they are insane he does stuff that i didn't even think was possible until watching him its actually insane the stuff you can do, and this part alone is why Dishonored surpasses Thief which had great moments but was way to grounded in comparison to dishonored, but i absolutely see the appeal and i still love thief (the newest one though was a huge disappointment though) but to dishonored it will never have the same impact on me.

>Choice; This is where i think Dishonored and Thief are more tied or thief surpasses, in terms of map choice (such as routes to target) i think thief has that against Dishonored, although once again due to dishonored's Powers you feel like you found a more natural way through that the developers weren't intending, Dishonored's targets have a nonlethal and lethal approach which is great and the nonlethal approach is always great and logical such as Heretic Brand, the twins put to work in their own mines

>Story; Loved it, it is one of the few stories that held my attention and the mini stories throughout were also captivating, and depending on what you did watching how people react to you and emily, Thief (ill talk about the newest one here because i cant for the life of me remember the story of the others" is being a thief and stealing a artifact and stuff (now that i think about it i cant quite remember this one either) which didnt really hold me like dishonored.

>Atmosphere/Style/period; The fact that this is set in a steampunk era is just a insane plus i have had a extreme fascination for ages ever since playing "ARCANUM: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura" which i fell in love with, and then even more so with the plague i love stuff involving the plague (only disappointment was no Plague Doctors). Although i loved the dark atmosphere of thief nothing can hold up to a steampunk setting with the plague for me.

Well if you got here without skipping GG thanks for reading, to OP i hope you enjoyed because no doubt this one of the few responses you will get without it being cancer.

If i want to play something like thief but with powers; Then Dark Messiah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7T9tJiw6AU Beautiful brings a tear to my eye.

"This is the steam forums so that is impossible." Never a truer sentence has been typed. It's amazing what people can get upset about on here, but I've matured a bit and interests have shifted so I no longer get riled up about video games, so no aggression will be found here :)

Characters: Can totally relate with your feelings here. Not with this game, but with Deus Ex and Deus Ex Human Revolution abso-friggin'-lutely. And while I wouldn't go this far, I did really like the characters of the first game a lot. Even though the betrayal was predictable, that whole part really did make me care. Good stuff.

Powers/Gadgets: For me, personally, it seems to be at odds with the stealth, and removes all challenge in the game, so that's why I much prefer Thief's vulnerability. Absolutely fair enough though if this is what you enjoy!

Choice: I do like this aspect of having two different ways of taking down targets that lead to different fictional outcomes, especially for replayability and achievements, but I wish it had more of an effect on gameplay. Consequences for picking each option, but not ones that simply give you a better or worse ending. In-game consequences (I know there are a few minor ones, I mean much bigger. Say, directly kill a target and all of his loyal goons will stalk you through a level, for example). I'll also add that this game having statistics is a big up one on Thief for me. I really wish I could see my stats in the menu for Thief too. You can also go the entire game ghost in Dishonored or without taking anyone down in any way, which you technically can do in the Thief games, but only with glitching etc. which just isn't fun.

Story: Oh boy, this is one where we're just going to have to agree to disagree. For me the first three Thief game's have the most memorable stories I've ever played through each. Their world-building, characters and phenomenal cutscenes grab me like no other. I really couldn't care less about Dishonored's world, but I don't think that's an issue with the game at all given the huge amounts of in-game text and world-building it has. It just personally doesn't appeal to me for whatever reason.

Atmosphere: Again, totally subjective here. For me steampunk isn't hugely interesting, at least beyond the art aspect. Thief's mish-mash of fantasy, urban, supernatural, conspiracy and down-right avant-garde settings (amongst others) engross me like no other world (besides Deus Ex) has come even close to achieving.

Great response, mate. It was refreshing reading what you like so much about your favourite series without any condescending tones or remarks, so I appreciate that! Thanks for the recommendation too!

[Shadow]

As long as we can agree that the last (4th) Thief game was a huge letdown for fans and not worthy of being included in the franchise, I don't think there's an objective winner between Thief and Dishonored. I've enjoyed all the games a lot and they scratch different itches. Thief is better at being a challenge, non-lethal gameplay, more thinking on your own and reading maps instead of following objective markers, and Dishonored is better if you like to blink around and stab people in the throat.
What StealthGamerBR does in Dishonored truly is a sight to be seen, but I never felt compelled to construct such elaborate setups, when blinking, stabbing and drop assassinations are so satisfying and effective already.

+1 for the honorable mention of Dark Messiah of Might and Magic!

Amnesia: the dark descent gave me some Thief-vibes too, but there's no combat and you're even less empowered to deal with the threats in the game.

[alexUnder]

Both cool. Best of the best. But due to original Thief trilogy have become way too outdated I have to stick to Dishonored. It's the matter of taste I suppose but I cannot get immersed into pixel-blockymodels Thief anymore. Even Thief Deadly Shadows is not good enough already. For me only, no offence to anyone. I am not a fan of graphics, my comp is made out of potato. Nevertheless for me Thief is unplayable. I wish there would be sort of Black Mesa for Thief, but as I know Eidos banned even an idea for such efforts. So - Dishonored
Ps. Sorry for my clumsy Eng. I know it's not so bad. But also I know I am making mistakes

[Shadow]

Originally posted by Alex Ros:

Both cool. Best of the best. But due to original Thief trilogy have become way too outdated I have to stick to Dishonored. It's the matter of taste I suppose but I cannot get immersed into pixel-blockymodels Thief anymore. Even Thief Deadly Shadows is not good enough already. For me only, no offence to anyone. I am not a fan of graphics, my comp is made out of potato. Nevertheless for me Thief is unplayable. I wish there would be sort of Black Mesa for Thief, but as I know Eidos banned even an idea for such efforts. So - Dishonored
Ps. Sorry for my clumsy Eng. I know it's not so bad. But also I know I am making mistakes

There's this, though it doesn't look much more up to date either:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JHh9xfzQjo

[alexUnder]

I know and tried, but I didn't like it. The lore is kinda absent. But mod-team efforts were truly great! But it's just not for me

By the way that modern Thief was fine. For me. The story and that girl in particular were horrible. And it's not THAT Thief at all. But in general I played it twice and it's fine on its own. Much better then lots of modern games. But worse then Dishonored!

[milo29]

I don't know thief, but from what I see on D2, I can say the void engine seem a nice engine. The mansion where the map can change, the stilton where you can play in futur and past at same time... I'm not at the end of story, but at this time I can see a nice engine and an incredible dev work. And for me the game also has zero lag at full quality on a 1070

[alexUnder]

Originally posted by milo29:

I don't know thief, but from what I see on D2, I can say the void engine seem a nice engine. The mansion where the map can change, the stilton where you can play in futur and past at same time... I'm not at the end of story, but at this time I can see a nice engine and an incredible dev work. And for me the game also has zero lag at full quality on a 1070

As for the complexity of the storyline the Thief trilogy is far-far-far better. Dishonore is way too simple in comparison: just revenge and that's all. Thief is like a movie with unexpected twists and turns. I mean every 3 part of it: the Dark Project, the Metal Age and the Deadly Shadows. All three are very rich and satisfying in terms of the story. As a result missions themselves are much complexier and very interconnected with the story. Not by notes, but by the events themselves: what you hear, what people (guards and civilians) do, etc

[Quiet Siren]

Thief:
+sound plays an important part
+complex map and city system that rocks
+multiple ways to traverse the city above and below ground
+the clocktower as home base
+stealth-centric
+first person
+cool climbing
+lots of side missions
+can shoot out lights, distinguish fire, etc. to change visibility/atmosphere
-earlier ones are now very old fashioned looking
-no option for female protagonist
-not so much replayability

Dishonored:
+choices influence game line
+beautiful graphics
+characters (especially in the DLC) are interesting
+good replayability
+multiple outcomes
+bone charm and rune crafting
+powers if you wish them, don't have to have them
+option for female protagonist(s)
+clockwork mansion is a great nod to the Myst franchise
+good weaponry selection
+first person
-can't extinguish lights/fires just hokey blowing out of candles
-more linear city and skimpy compared to Thief
-cumbersome to call up maps and maps are meh

I like them both and would likely get all tingly if there was a good hybrid of the best parts of both.

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by Alex Ros:

Originally posted by milo29:

I don't know thief, but from what I see on D2, I can say the void engine seem a nice engine. The mansion where the map can change, the stilton where you can play in futur and past at same time... I'm not at the end of story, but at this time I can see a nice engine and an incredible dev work. And for me the game also has zero lag at full quality on a 1070

As for the complexity of the storyline the Thief trilogy is far-far-far better. Dishonore is way too simple in comparison: just revenge and that's all. Thief is like a movie with unexpected twists and turns. I mean every 3 part of it: the Dark Project, the Metal Age and the Deadly Shadows. All three are very rich and satisfying in terms of the story. As a result missions themselves are much complexier and very interconnected with the story. Not by notes, but by the events themselves: what you hear, what people (guards and civilians) do, etc

True! And the games for me have far more interesting readables. Dishonored kinda throws everything at you with books and notes you really would expect to find in the world, but that don't make for interesting reading unless you're really into the game's lore. Deus Ex Human Revolution and Mankind Divided did the same thing, but Deus Ex (2000) and the original Thief games have much more interesting readables but I couldn't really tell you why besides that one point.
Dishonored 2 is also a very impressive game engine wise, I agree.

Originally posted by Quiet Siren:

Thief:
+sound plays an important part
+complex map and city system that rocks
+multiple ways to traverse the city above and below ground
+the clocktower as home base
+stealth-centric
+first person
+cool climbing
+lots of side missions
+can shoot out lights, distinguish fire, etc. to change visibility/atmosphere
-earlier ones are now very old fashioned looking
-no option for female protagonist
-not so much replayability

Dishonored:
+choices influence game line
+beautiful graphics
+characters (especially in the DLC) are interesting
+good replayability
+multiple outcomes
+bone charm and rune crafting
+powers if you wish them, don't have to have them
+option for female protagonist(s)
+clockwork mansion is a great nod to the Myst franchise
+good weaponry selection
+first person
-can't extinguish lights/fires just hokey blowing out of candles
-more linear city and skimpy compared to Thief
-cumbersome to call up maps and maps are meh

I like them both and would likely get all tingly if there was a good hybrid of the best parts of both.

The pros for Thief sound like they're for the 2014 one mostly. Should play the originals with the HD mod. Not that 2014 is a bad game, in my opinion. I've had lots of fun with it, but as everyone else always says, it doesn't compare to the originals.

[Semipalmated Plover]

Dishonored has awesome replayability and different styles of possible gameplay. But the first two Thief games were the most awesome narrative experiences of my gaming life, with the most amazing atmosphere of the time (helped greatly by how awesome the audio is), so i can't really decide what series i like more. I will say that Thief 2 as an individual game is my favourite game of all time.

[Zaum]

Its comparing apples and oranges. Dishonored is more of a deus ex game then anything else: Powers, progression, many approaches to solve a level, sidequests, and consequence system, the only thing is missing are dialoge options.

[Francisè von Spitroast]

Originally posted by CanIbiteYou?:

Its comparing apples and oranges. Dishonored is more of a deus ex game then anything else: Powers, progression, many approaches to solve a level, sidequests, and consequence system, the only thing is missing are dialoge options.

It has dialogue options too, just not as commonly as Deus Ex. And yes as mentioned above I agree it's more like Deus Ex than Thief with its hub worlds and open ended level design. There's still no denying the similarities. Both are stealth games with huge levels, and Dishonored blatantly steals from Thief in multiple ways and Dishonored is often labeled the spiritual successor to Thief so it's still easy to compare.
Dishonored has dialogue options too, just more rare and isn't used entirely the same way as Deus Ex.