Workers in Mission 8 always die - possible bug? [Solved]

[MarMarg]

SPOILERS for the Black Market Robbery in Mission 8 – The Grand Palace!

So here’s the thing: at the beginning of the mission, you find a delivery ship accompanied by two workers at the docks, everything fine and dandy. The ship’s door is locked and the workers are waiting for their delivery woman to make contact with the black market vendor. When you leave, the workers are still alive (unless you kill them, naturally). Once you enter the backdoor area of the black market (behind the gate locked with a code) and the delivery woman starts her dialogue with the black market vendor, the delivery ship at the start of the mission is invaded by two guards and the two workers are dead, as the guards have come to seize the ship’s illegal contents.

I wanted to see if there was a way to save the workers, so before I went to the back alley of the black market, I knocked them out and brought them with me to the safe shop near the black market, far enough away from the boat to keep them out of harm’s way (or so I thought). I go to the black market literally a block away, I come back, and the workers are dead in the safe shop. This also means I have two kills in a non-lethal playthrough, as I knocked them out before they died, which is an added bonus.

To be absolutely sure the conversation between the delivery woman and the vendor was the cause of their deaths, I took the two workers (both unconscious) with me to the alley. I chucked one of them ahead of me through the gate (he was still unconscious afterwards) and carried the other one through it to trigger the conversation. Promptly, the worker I had thrown through the gate started to bleed out, his status changed to dead, and when I dropped the one I was carrying, he too was suddenly dead (and I am certain he was unconscious when I picked him up). I tried using bend time to lift the key from the delivery woman and running back to the boat immediately, but even when I make it back to the boat before Bend Time runs out, the guards are already there and the workers are, surprise surprise, dead.

Does anyone know if there is a way to fix/prevent this, besides not knocking them out and letting them die or never triggering the conversation in the back alley at all? It is possible to save a lot of civilians from their fates, like the man who runs the newspaper in mission 2, but it seems these two just cannot be saved, and that doesn’t fit with the spirit of the game. Have I missed something here?

Thank you in advance!

[Aesill]

there's a scripted event where 2 guards confiscate the goods and kill the workers. If you've touched them before the scripted event happens, their deaths are counted as your kills.
you can get around this by avoiding the workers until after you've visited the black market area, or taking out the guards. They're in an appartment near the bloodfly nests

[deborah]

I beat the living crap out of this trying to save those poor workers, who were just trying to put food on the table. No matter what I did, they died.

They do get triggered by the conversation between the delivery woman and the shopkeeper. I could grab the key, run back in time to take out the guards, and rob the boat, but the workers always died.

The trick is to find the guards before visiting the Black Market. They're in one of the apartments, the same one they'll later take the boat loot to if they kill the workers and confiscate the goods. I discovered this on a No Powers run where I decided working my way clockwise around the guard tower was going to be more feasible than starting over by the guys playing dice near the piano like I normally do.

[MarMarg]

Oh, that's what I've been missing! Taking out the guards first never crossed my mind, silly me. Thank you very much! It's great to know there's a way to save the poor guys from certain death after all.

I still think it's strange the workers will die if you don't take out the guards first even if you've taking them away from the boat and are looking right at them - you can actually see their status change from unconsious to dead after the delivery woman speaks her first line.

But that doesn't take away from the great workaround - thank you for keeping my good guy playthrough fully good!

[deborah]

Originally posted by BlackKitt:

Oh, that's what I've been missing! Taking out the guards first never crossed my mind, silly me. Thank you very much! It's great to know there's a way to save the poor guys from certain death after all.

I still think it's strange the workers will die if you don't take out the guards first even if you've taking them away from the boat and are looking right at them - you can actually see their status change from unconsious to dead after the delivery woman speaks her first line.

But that doesn't take away from the great workaround - thank you for keeping my good guy playthrough fully good!

Kudos for your discovery that they die the moment the dialog starts! That went further than I managed to go, and I really beat my head on that one. The first time I knocked out the workers and came back to find them dead was heart breaking. I try to save the civilians destined for death and disturb the others as little as possible (i.e., only knock them out if absolutely necessary to maintain stealth).

[Just Chill]

Well I define those civilians always as collateral KOs. ^^
The Karnaca docks are an exceptions, as knocking out all those people is risky, since civilians always immediately spot you (red awareness), when you perform something bad.

Which easily breaks "ghostly".

[deborah]

Originally posted by Just Chill:

Well I define those civilians always as collateral KOs. ^^
The Karnaca docks are an exceptions, as knocking out all those people is risky, since civilians always immediately spot you (red awareness), when you perform something bad.

Which easily breaks "ghostly".

How would you like it if you were blissfully napping on your couch and some creepy dude in a mask barges in and chokes you until you pass out?

[Aesill]

Originally posted by deborah:

Originally posted by Just Chill:

Well I define those civilians always as collateral KOs. ^^
The Karnaca docks are an exceptions, as knocking out all those people is risky, since civilians always immediately spot you (red awareness), when you perform something bad.

Which easily breaks "ghostly".

How would you like it if you were blissfully napping on your couch and some creepy dude in a mask barges in and chokes you until you pass out?

I'd prefer it over Emily using shadow walk to render you unconscious.

[Just Chill]

@deborah
I'm sorry but I don't think about questions which regards real life, compared to a video game.

Since the same question can be asked when you play on high chaos:
Would you run through the world killing anyone, who you meet?

You don't have to answer, as the question is useless in the same way as yours.

For me, there is a clear line between video games and real life.
In video games I don't have to stick to any moral which I like to practice in my real life.
Since... Ehm, well video games are not real.


I am glad you give those poor NPCs your voice. They will be grateful :D
Furthermore if you play online games with real people, do you regret if you kill one of their virtual avatars or if they kill your virtual avatar?
If so, I would recommend not to play any online games. ;)

[deborah]

Originally posted by Just Chill:

I'm sorry but I don't think about questions which regards real life, compared to a video game.

Since the same question can be asked when you play on high chaos:
Would you run through the world killing anyone, who you meet?

You don't have to answer, as the question is useless in the same way as yours.

For me, there is a clear line between video games and real life.
In video games I don't have to stick to any moral which I like to practice in my real life.
Since... Ehm, well video games are not real. :awkward:


I am glad you give those poor NPCs your voice. They will be grateful :D
Furthermore if you play online games with real people, do you regret if you kill one of their virtual avatars or if they kill your virtual avatar?
If so, I would recommend not to play any online games. ;)

On High Chaos, I still leave most of the civilians alone, choke them out, and save the ones who will die... there's a few that die, like the guy in the alley talking about profiting from the coup and rat plague. The only difference is I kill the guards, Overseers, etc. I would have otherwise choked out. High Chaos is a different mindset where I have to tell myself that the ones I'm killing all deserve to die. The maid? She doesn't deserve to die. She's just trying to get through the day and put a roof over her head. She gets choked out and tucked into a comfy bed.

With multiplayer games, it just depends on the game itself. If the point is to live or die and they're going to respawn, I have no problem killing. I don't try to play Doom with ethics in mind. I do play Skyrim with a particular morality that generally minimizes destruction and death. I haven't even picked a faction in FO4 because none of them meet my criteria for ethics, worldview, politics, etc... and I'm not the only one who thinks the FO4 faction choices completely suck for the same reasons.

Dishonored, Skyrim, and many other games are not simply shoot-em-ups. You're not playing a game, you're playing a character. I tend to play myself within the bounds of the game.

[MarMarg]

Originally posted by Just Chill:

@deborah
I'm sorry but I don't think about questions which regards real life, compared to a video game.

Since the same question can be asked when you play on high chaos:
Would you run through the world killing anyone, who you meet?

You don't have to answer, as the question is useless in the same way as yours.

For me, there is a clear line between video games and real life.
In video games I don't have to stick to any moral which I like to practice in my real life.
Since... Ehm, well video games are not real. :awkward:


I am glad you give those poor NPCs your voice. They will be grateful :D
Furthermore if you play online games with real people, do you regret if you kill one of their virtual avatars or if they kill your virtual avatar?
If so, I would recommend not to play any online games. ;)

Of course there is a difference between real life and video games, but that doesn’t mean you can’t pretend. It’s a role playing game after all, and that’s one of the things I personally love most about gaming. You are playing an Empress or a Royal Protector, and your actions will have influence on your Empire. For me, that means trying to wreak as less havoc as I can. Even in High Chaos I don’t murder civilians, because they are ‘my’ people, and they had nothing to do with the coup at all. I only make an exception for most of the civilians in the Duke’s Grand Palace, because they’re participating in the Duke’s flamboyant lifestyle while there are people in the Dust District barely scraping by.

Of course, that’s just my opinion. Can’t say it isn’t fun to run around and killing everything in sight sometimes, but I like Dishonored precisely because it plays on your morality.

Edit: It seems deborah and I have the same opinion on the matter. Sorry for the redundance!

[deborah]

Originally posted by BlackKitt:

Originally posted by Just Chill:

@deborah
I'm sorry but I don't think about questions which regards real life, compared to a video game.

Since the same question can be asked when you play on high chaos:
Would you run through the world killing anyone, who you meet?

You don't have to answer, as the question is useless in the same way as yours.

For me, there is a clear line between video games and real life.
In video games I don't have to stick to any moral which I like to practice in my real life.
Since... Ehm, well video games are not real. :awkward:


I am glad you give those poor NPCs your voice. They will be grateful :D
Furthermore if you play online games with real people, do you regret if you kill one of their virtual avatars or if they kill your virtual avatar?
If so, I would recommend not to play any online games. ;)

Of course there is a difference between real life and video games, but that doesn’t mean you can’t pretend. It’s a role playing game after all, and that’s one of the things I personally love most about gaming. You are playing an Empress or a Royal Protector, and your actions will have influence on your Empire. For me, that means trying to wreak as less havoc as I can. Even in High Chaos I don’t murder civilians, because they are ‘my’ people, and they had nothing to do with the coup at all. I only make an exception for most of the civilians in the Duke’s Grand Palace, because they’re participating in the Duke’s flamboyant lifestyle while there are people in the Dust District barely scraping by.

Of course, that’s just my opinion. Can’t say it isn’t fun to run around and killing everything in sight sometimes, but I like Dishonored precisely because it plays on your morality.

Edit: It seems deborah and I have the same opinion on the matter. Sorry for the redundance!

*highfive* I think even if we have similar approaches, hearing your point of view is interesting.

Now, I think I'll go play a bit more Far Cry Primal and KILL ALL THE KITTY CATS!

[Just Chill]

@deborah
Well, this is how you enjoy your games.

It's a hobby for me.
I also play adventures like The Walking Dead from Telltales or Age of Empires which is a strategy game.
Or some match-based online games, where real humans control their virtual avatar.

The only strict rule I have is, that I don't cheat against human opponents.

Everything else is just a game.
In singleplayer terms, it tells a story with some moral, in multiplayer it is mostly just for fun.
After all it should just be entertaining and (sometimes or) challenging, since a "game" is all that about.
There are no wrong decision in that case, as they exist in the real world.

[MarMarg]

Originally posted by deborah:

Originally posted by BlackKitt:

Of course there is a difference between real life and video games, but that doesn’t mean you can’t pretend. It’s a role playing game after all, and that’s one of the things I personally love most about gaming. You are playing an Empress or a Royal Protector, and your actions will have influence on your Empire. For me, that means trying to wreak as less havoc as I can. Even in High Chaos I don’t murder civilians, because they are ‘my’ people, and they had nothing to do with the coup at all. I only make an exception for most of the civilians in the Duke’s Grand Palace, because they’re participating in the Duke’s flamboyant lifestyle while there are people in the Dust District barely scraping by.

Of course, that’s just my opinion. Can’t say it isn’t fun to run around and killing everything in sight sometimes, but I like Dishonored precisely because it plays on your morality.

Edit: It seems deborah and I have the same opinion on the matter. Sorry for the redundance!

*highfive* I think even if we have similar approaches, hearing your point of view is interesting.

Now, I think I'll go play a bit more Far Cry Primal and KILL ALL THE KITTY CATS!

That's true, it is nice to know there's someone else out there whose playstyle is similar to mine. I wonder how you'd play Fallout New Vegas, I had the hardest time deciding the best moral path in that game.

Have fun with your killing spree! I'm going to try and finish my epic Ghost and Clean Hands run, like a boss.

[Sparhawk122]

What a stupid kills count system. How do the guards kill unconscious dock workers when they are hidden away from sight........

o0

Plus it is their blades that kill them. Just another frustration Stealth wise. Good job Arkane.

Time to find those two guards and deal with them first.....

[Lucas]

Originally posted by Al Abaster:

Originally posted by BlackKitt:

I wonder how you'd play Fallout New Vegas, I had the hardest time deciding the best moral path in that game.

As near as I could tell, there is no "good" moral path in New Vegas. Which is why I uninstalled it and won't ever play it again or recommend it to anyone. There are no real choices in a game where every option is "evil."

Yes Man option is arguably the "good" option. So is the NCR. Or even Mr House. :)