Dishonored 2

Dishonored 2

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Lore Spoiler Discussion: About Emily and Corvo's relationship
Was anyone else surprised when they made Corvo Emily's father? Is it just me, or was there no mention of it in the first game, nor in any of the companion books from the first game... he was just royal protector. I mean, Emily calls him Corvo for goodness sake! What daughter calls her father by his first name?! Guessing they just made it that way for the second game to give it a more Bioshock Infinite feel, but I just couldn't take it serioiusly.

If he was just Royal Protector, it made sense why people would think he was responsible for Jessamine's murder in the first game... he could have turned rogue etc. But why would people think Corvo assisinated and abducted his daughter if they were his own family? Besides, his heir was already going to be on the throne anyway? Also, since he's not royalty, that would make Emily illegitamate to the throne anyways...

I know it's just a game and I'm probably thinking too hard about it, but it kind of broke up the lore a bit.

EDIT: More than anything I'm frustrated by what I see as plot sloppiness and inconsistencies from the first game... The first game worked so well in itself, and the whole father/daughter thing could be speculated upon without runing the world or plot for either side of the argument. But for me the second game confirming the relationship broke up how quite a few players (including myself) understood the first game, and left too many open plot loopholes. In short, the lore no longer made any sense.
Last edited by threescoreandeleven; Apr 20, 2017 @ 5:22am
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Capt.M Apr 19, 2017 @ 12:28pm 
Well well... where should I begin. Corvo and Emily's relationship is one of my favourite topics in a way since I found it just... awesome, in a strange way. And I don't even think being a parent is the ultimate goal in life. :>

However, this is certainly not something they came up with suddenly for the second game. I guessed the connection very early on my first playthrough of DH1, and I was even playing high chaos. There are several hints in the game, and although none of them is a legal proof of paternity, at least one is so straightforward it makes the matter quite obvious: if you read Admiral Havelock's journal in the lighthouse, he writes "I believe Corvo's loyalty to the Kaldwin woman would have clouded his head. Is she truly his daughter?"

I also think think it was stressed that Corvo was not just Royal Protector, since Outsider's last words before farewell in the ending cinematics are "you were more to her than Royal Protector". It obviously means that Corvo was, well, her father.

Illegitimacy is a valid point though, and I don't have all the answers. Obviously, Jessamine and Corvo's relationship was a secret, yet widely speculated. But it's not a secret that Jessamine never married, but had a child nevertheless. Apparently that didn't prevent the child from being an heir to the throne. Yet if there were no legitimate children either, then, well, why not?

Even in spite of the last issue, I don't think the relationship breaks the lore, quite the contrary.
Amanda Apr 19, 2017 @ 12:43pm 
How could it "break the lore"? The fact that Emily was Corvo's daughter was his strongest motivation in the first game, even if you didn't know it at the start.

They leave hints here and there about it (or at least about Jessamine's love for Corvo), and you begin to realize that he's not just getting revenge and clearing his name, he's not just saving the daughter of his empress and doing his Royal Protectorly duties, but he's saving his daughter and his link to Jessamine. It explains why he was so determined.

Capt.M Apr 19, 2017 @ 1:14pm 
Originally posted by Amanda:
The fact that Emily was Corvo's daughter was his strongest motivation in the first game
Couldn't have said it better. :) And the finesse of it when you realize the story's not so much about revenge as it is about love – a parent's love.
Myrmidon Apr 19, 2017 @ 1:18pm 
They didn't state it explicitly because most of Dunwall didn't know (taboo) it was just so supposed to be abundantly obvious to the player through inference. It's really clear even at the beginings of the game that they're lovers, she doesn't have an ''official'' partner either yet has a little girl who's age matches up with... Yeah.
@Capt.M

Thanks for the great answer! As I said, I wan't aware of anything in the first game that pointed to a parental relationship, but thanks for pointing out that there may have been hints to it.

I guess after playing through the first game and seeing Corvo as more of a caring 'father-figure' who was also a lone wolf fit with the character as a whole. So that when they introduced him as her actual father staright out it sort of changed the way I percieved him as a character... I do remember some of those insults of him sleeping with Jessamine, but I always saw it as a cheap way of people provoking him, the same way people say "I slept with your mother" rather than implying that they actually had a relationship.

I like what you said about the whole being a parent isn't necessarily the ultimate goal in life :) - to me it made Corvo even more likeable and strong as a character if he wasn't biologically related to her, as it showed we should protect those we care about, regardless who they are. I always saw the "you were more to her than Royal Protector thing" as that he went above and beyond duty to rescue her, and earned her love and respectl. I prefer that motivation for the character as opposed to just they're related, which is why he's rescuing her. The fact that they're father/daughter somehow cheapened the character for me somewhat, as it was just such a cliche. But that's just me, and I guess I found it confusing simply because it wasn't obviouc to me or what I got from the first game. But it's also just personal preference :)


@Amanda

Thanks for the reply I guess I felt it broke the lore only in the way I'd understood it from the first game; I explain just above here.
Amanda Apr 19, 2017 @ 1:23pm 
Originally posted by Myrmidon:
It's really clear even at the beginings of the game that they're lovers...

The opening at the beginning of the first game (the part floating through the clouds) almost gives it away, it's practically a love letter.
I guess I was also just surprised it wasn't something I'd ever considered after the first game, so it came as a bit of a shock. So I was just wondering if anyone else was surprised :)
As well as the above posts, Emily also draws pictures for you in Dishonored 1. This being the most obvious one https://forum.psnprofiles.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i.imgur.com/FhV6ayz.png&key=16945682367d6898a8d90d20a084bfc73308f1f82f2c942bee01715008f7f70d

There are other things during the game too, like the empress's secret room and voice recording.

I'm genuinely surprised that you would not at least have a suspicion during the first game, even if you didn't see the evidence spelling it out clearly.
Last edited by Semipalmated Plover; Apr 19, 2017 @ 1:59pm
lostsomething Apr 19, 2017 @ 4:28pm 
There were plenty of hints about it in the first game. The only thing I really found surprising is that in setting it seems to have gone from being a popular rumor in the first game to public knowledge in the second.
EridanFresh Apr 19, 2017 @ 5:32pm 
Originally posted by Semipalmated Plover:
As well as the above posts, Emily also draws pictures for you in Dishonored 1. This being the most obvious one https://forum.psnprofiles.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i.imgur.com/FhV6ayz.png&key=16945682367d6898a8d90d20a084bfc73308f1f82f2c942bee01715008f7f70d
Thank's for this you saved me some googling. This topic always triggers me a little (nothing against you OP) people saying "it was hinted"... nah it was almost obvious, if you followed the clues. I remember discussions pre-dishonored 2 and people denying these evidences.. felt so good to finally got confirmation. /rant
81flh Apr 19, 2017 @ 9:37pm 
Yes, quite apparent in D1 he is her father. And as far as calling ones parent by their first name, it has been done by some for ages.
Capt.M Apr 19, 2017 @ 11:18pm 
Originally posted by ExtraFresh:
"it was hinted"... nah it was almost obvious, if you followed the clues. I remember discussions pre-dishonored 2 and people denying these evidences..
I think it's fair to say "hinted" because, as you said, "...if you followed the clues". It's easy to miss them and it's not necessarily a wrong way to play either. My first playthrough was high chaos, so I didn't see the "Daddy" drawing, though I guessed the connection early nevertheless.

When it comes to people denying the obvious, I don't know why they would do it. I would find it very awkward if there were so many strong hints without any foundation. And it would have been particularly lame if after everything we could find out about the lore in the first game, it had been confirmed that Emily's father was a certain noble who died before she was born and Jessamine was briefly married to him too. Fortunately not.


Originally posted by Onyxpectacle:
I like what you said about the whole being a parent isn't necessarily the ultimate goal in life :) - to me it made Corvo even more likeable and strong as a character if he wasn't biologically related to her, as it showed we should protect those we care about, regardless who they are. I always saw the "you were more to her than Royal Protector thing" as that he went above and beyond duty to rescue her, and earned her love and respectl. I prefer that motivation for the character as opposed to just they're related, which is why he's rescuing her. The fact that they're father/daughter somehow cheapened the character for me somewhat, as it was just such a cliche. But that's just me, and I guess I found it confusing simply because it wasn't obviouc to me or what I got from the first game. But it's also just personal preference :)
I do understand you perfectly. Most of the time I also hold non-blood relationships in higher regard than actual family relations... And I also think there's something "stronger" involved in caring for those who are not related by blood. But perhaps that is also why I loved this detail in the Dishonored story, it made me question my own stance. I think many things in the game try to tell you that what you do, you do for revenge since you were wronged, you were innocent yet imprisoned, you'll get a chance to avenge yourself and clear your name... while also placing a rightful heir to the throne, but anyway, people will know it was not Royal Protector who killed the empress... And then suddenly, you may realize it never mattered much. Although the Loyalists seem to think that's what drives Corvo, the truth is much more humane. Even though Corvo is a lone wolf, he's not driven by anger, vengeful thoughts and a sense of duty as much as he's driven by love, and I think that gives him a softer side and brings some credibility as well.

I also find father-child relationships somewhat more interesting than mother-child ones, perhaps because there's no such physical bond as between a mother and her child. Whatever fathers choose to do is not so much defined by what's biologically mandatory. And since Corvo has never been acknowledged as Emily's father, it's interesting to see what kind of a relationship they have developed nevertheless.

Originally posted by lostsomething:
The only thing I really found surprising is that in setting it seems to have gone from being a popular rumor in the first game to public knowledge in the second.
This puzzles me too. I've been trying to look for clues as to when it was no longer an open secret, but so far I don't know. Perhaps this is something we'll learn in the future, maybe in the books?

And as for Emily calling Corvo by his name, she obviously couldn't call him father either. His paternity is a secret, and I also think they have never told Emily that Corvo is her father. However, the heart suggests Emily knows more than it seems, which I think means that she does know the truth although not even her parents have confirmed it. Yet she calls Corvo father at the beginning of DH2, and I would like to know when she started making such exceptions. I would also like to know whether the two discussed the matter through at some point when Emily was slightly older, or whether it was always so obvious to them that when Emily began to use "father" instead of "Corvo", Corvo didn't bother to correct her. :P
Ez Duzit Apr 20, 2017 @ 2:57am 
It is as obvious as the nose on your face, to anyone who actually took the time to read all the letters & books that you acquire while playing the 1st game. If you're one of those people who just wants the action, and has no time or patience for reading the in-game items that come up, then no, you would not know she was his daughter. But if you took your time and enjoyed the game, reading the various books, notes, and letters found while exploring, instead of rushing through it, then it is impossible to not know she is his daughter.

edit for spelling
Last edited by Ez Duzit; Apr 20, 2017 @ 2:58am
Thanks for all the replies guys - appreciated! Even though I read basically all of the in-game collectibles (I also bought the real life book companion, and there is zero mention of it in there), I just never interpreted it that way. If you had said that they were father/daughter before the release of the second game, I would've probably said you were pulling at straws since the hints are so vague and could be interpreted any old way...

I guess like I said it never really occurred to me in the first game, probably because my own understandings of the world prevented me from thinking that way. Maybe my understanding of royalty (even in fictional universes) is too rooted in practicalities like it would make her an illegitimate heir for me to have considered it a real possibility. An Empress who gets pregnant out of wedlock would be quite the scandal, in real life and in any fictional univerese, and as there is no mention of that in the first game (feel free to correct me here), I guess that's one of the reasons I never really saw it that way, as it seemed slightly ridiculous to me that no-one in the game would find that suspicious or odd, or even question who Emily's father was.

Since it's all public knowledge by the second game, it also suggests that there were no repercussions for either Emily or Corvo in making it public knowledge that they are related - which begs the question why wouldn't he just bring it up at the start of the first game to get him released, if it wouldn't be detrimental? "Hello, yes I'm actually her father and long-time lover of Jessamine,... have all these letters back at the castle between Jessamine and me to prove it... why the hell would I murder my lover and abduct my own kid? Makes zero sense right? OK so obviously I'm innocent let me go." End of game. But if he had no story to prove his innocence/loyalty to the two of them, and people saw him as just an employee turned assassin, then it made sense that he would be trapped with no option but to escape... start game. That's some real HISHE feed right there.

Btw I'm not suggesting this is how the story should've been, but I'm justifying why it was far from obvious to me that they were related. It just didn't seem to add up.
Last edited by threescoreandeleven; Apr 20, 2017 @ 5:27am
Also, with regards to the drawing, it wouldn't be the first time a young ophaned child starts referring to a parental figure as daddy or mommy even though they aren't biologically related - especially how at the beginning she's referring to him as Corvo. I also just saw it as a clever tool used by the devs to 'reward' you for taking the low chaos route (which I took on my first playthough), to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside now that the kid sees you as a father-figure because you've been such a nice character during the game. What's interesting is that the drawing doesn't appear on high chaos, which I took to mean since you're not a very nice character the little girl doesn't see you as a father-figure, rather just a necessary evil.

My theory is that in the first game the devs hadn't yet decided whether to make Corvo her father or not. I feel like if they'd actually decided that he was her father they would've made the hints a great deal more unambiguous, so that it was a plot detail at some point during the game that you couldn't miss. But then they only decided to make it a solid plot point for the second game, to the extent it's not even hinted at, it's thrown in your face right off that bat. If this were the case it would explain the plotholes from the first game. Would be interesting to question them and ask them when they definitely decided that Corvo was to be her father.

Again, not trying to deny anything, I'm just defending the 'wait... they're actually related?!' camp :P I'm more frustrated by what I see as gaping plot sloppiness and inconsistencies than anything else... The first game worked so well in itself, and the whole father/daughter thing could be speculated upon without runing the world or plot, since it was till just speculation. But the second game broke up how quite a few players (including myself) understood the first game.

In short, the lore no longer really made any sense. And I slightly resent that :(
Last edited by threescoreandeleven; Apr 20, 2017 @ 5:24am
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Date Posted: Apr 19, 2017 @ 11:19am
Posts: 24