Tabletop Simulator copy?

[Enzo]

What's different from TTS?

[Mad Bad Gay]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

Once again, your ignorance shows quite clearly. You've made the incorrect assertion multiple times now that Tabletopia is a physics simulator like TTS, when really it's a service with the sole purpose of playing board games. Games have specific setups and there's no point to bringing in items like dice towers or boxes when you're not throwing dice all over the table. The system is designed specifically to facilitate playing games, not to emulate real world physics. Dice towers and boxes are kind of pointless when you're not flinging dice across the table. Tabletopia also isn't designed to mix and match components from different games, it's not a service for people just looking to build towers in a virtual room out of game peices.

The monthly cost on game development makes perfect sense. If you're looking to just create a crude, quick and easy game that people aren't going to likely play, that's what the free account is for. They want a service that's populated by professionally made and published games, however, not cheap hack jobs and copies of other people's games. I can't think of any publisher, larger or small, who can't afford $10-$20 a month to get their games up, especially if they're getting a 70% share of revenue from their games. You ♥♥♥♥♥ about the pricing scheme for publishers, but it actually pays out more than TTS's. They don't have the mandatory up front charge which doesn't have to be shared with the publishers, just an optional one if you want to use the app vs the web interface. Publishers are getting the short end of the stick with TTS as the vast majorty of the money made on the product goes directly to Berserk Games as opposed to going to the publishers and the additional cost on DLC is a turnoff for people who have already purchased a product. At best, they can get 50% of the revenue from direct sales IF they can make a contract with Berserk and even then people can still just create clones from scanned materials and make them freely available, so you have to compete with pirates in a completely unmoderated market since Berserk has no desire or plans to moderate the workshop or track online game sources.

As for going belly up, the same applies to TTS since every game asset has to be hosted online. If the game stops being supported, you're going to still have to rely on other people to keep their assets alive online, and I can guarantee you they won't be available forever if the interest wanes to the point of them going belly up. Hell, they don't even have to go belly up for that to happen. Plus you will have the same issue of player interest and if the game is pulled entirely, there won't be anywhere to even purchase copies to get to your interested friends or gaming group, anyway, so really both have their complications if they go under. The only way to guarantee ownership either way is with a physical copy. Most people aren't going to make the games themselves or back them up so they're available in case the game becomes unavailable.

Assets are hosted anywhere but TTS's servers, commonly Imgur. I uploaded a workshop item, oh, almost a year ago and it's still there and doing fine. Please don't start rage typing during your desperate search to try and pass this money grab program off as anything near competitive to TTS. It is a physics simulator, you move objects around, you manipulate them, you can do the same thing to objects as you can in TTS. Probably less so, actually. If it's not simulating physics, why are pieces I'm dropping on stuff then leaning over at an angle? Why even program that in if there's no physics needed? Seems odd.

As far as publishers go, I did a search for just about every game they have as DLC, Mistfall and Cosmic Encounters, Scythe, Tiny Epic Galaxies, and found no "hack job pirate" versions being hosted. The only thing hosted for Cosmic E was alternative setups that require the DLC to use. For someone who harps on about "research" and being "informed", it seems you do little to none of that yoruself. Doesn't seem like there's much to worry about there. So your remark about "competiting" is simply a crock of bull.

Of course big publishers can afford the monthly fee, I never said anything to the contrary. What I stated is that you need a pretty big pool of players playing your game every month to break even with the monthly fee included. You could go into the negative. You don't have to worry about that with TTS. You put it up and collect money whenever someone buys it. Tabletopia only pays more than TTS at certain user breakpoints, and that is on a monthly basis. Meaning it has to be sustainable or it is not profitable. There isn't any of that worry with TTS, so I'm stlll unclear as to how it is "better".

Oh and you only get your money from Tabletopia if the revenue is $300 or more during a 60 day period. I guess you're SoL if it isn't.

[Geobaldi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Arkterus:

Oh and you only get your money from Tabletopia if the revenue is $300 or more during a 60 day period. I guess you're SoL if it isn't.

Actually it says that they'll pay you within 60 days at the end of each quarter of a year.

Anf you won't find hack versions of the DLC's due to publishers asking for those versions to be pulled from the workshop. I have an version of Cosmic Encounter that was available before the DLC released. Other games have been pulled as well, several versions of Munchkin in the past, Castles of Mad King Ludwig recently, just to name a few. All games on Tabletopia are official, unlike pretty much all the fan created stuff on TTS. Meaning most of the TTS games can be pulled at any time if ther publishers want them to.

To each his own. You prefer TTS, that much is obvious. But saying that nobody will pay for Tabletopia is just ridiculous. What you mean is that you will not pay for it. That's fine, if that's how you feel. But it's obvious that people WILL pay for it, as it was funded and made possible by the gaming public before it was even added to Steam months ago.

[isu-kun]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Arkterus:

blah blah blah, I don't like to read or research anything, blah blah.

Yes, files are hosted all over the place online by different people using a variety of different services, which means variable reliability and the possibility of your game disappearing at any time without any warning, even if the game is still active.

Funny how I have no problem finding hack job copies of the DLC. In fact, it's been a concern since Superfight first came out. The publisher tried to convince people to ignore the clones by claiming they weren't using the official cards. And then you had people on the forums talking about how they were going to stick with the clones because the DLC was too expensive.

Actually, I said big AND small publishers can afford the monthly fee. You also totally misread how the revenue sharing works. They send a report within 60 days of the end of each quarter and if your TOTAL earnings are over $300 they send you a check. It's actually very similar to a lot of online media revenue platforms. They hold your money until you hit a minimum amount. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing in Berserk's contracts. What's more, the licensing of games for the premium service is not necessarily linked to the pay service for game creators. It's a separate contract between Tabletopia and the publisher. There is nothing in the contract stating your game will be removed if you fail to pay a monthly fee. The pay services for creators are more like advertising. A hobbyist may get by with one game or pay for the cheaper service if they really want to play around with a few ideas. A publisher shouldn't have any trouble covering the cost of either of the higher tiers, though. They're certainly willing to pay more than that on advertising on other sites and having official online versions of your games are a better way to introduce people to your product and sell them on the physical copies than banner ads.

[Mad Bad Gay]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Geobaldi:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Arkterus:

Oh and you only get your money from Tabletopia if the revenue is $300 or more during a 60 day period. I guess you're SoL if it isn't.

Actually it says that they'll pay you within 60 days at the end of each quarter of a year.

Anf you won't find hack versions of the DLC's due to publishers asking for those versions to be pulled from the workshop. I have an version of Cosmic Encounter that was available before the DLC released. Other games have been pulled as well, several versions of Munchkin in the past, Castles of Mad King Ludwig recently, just to name a few. All games on Tabletopia are official, unlike pretty much all the fan created stuff on TTS. Meaning most of the TTS games can be pulled at any time if ther publishers want them to.

To each his own. You prefer TTS, that much is obvious. But saying that nobody will pay for Tabletopia is just ridiculous. What you mean is that you will not pay for it. That's fine, if that's how you feel. But it's obvious that people WILL pay for it, as it was funded and made possible by the gaming public before it was even added to Steam months ago.

No.
https://tabletopia.com/tabletopia-license-summary.pdf
"IF the total amount of money due is more than 300 USD- make a payment"
That is within 60 days after the end of each quarter.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Arkterus:

blah blah blah, I don't like to read or research anything, blah blah.

Yes, files are hosted all over the place online by different people using a variety of different services, which means variable reliability and the possibility of your game disappearing at any time without any warning, even if the game is still active.

Funny how I have no problem finding hack job copies of the DLC. In fact, it's been a concern since Superfight first came out. The publisher tried to convince people to ignore the clones by claiming they weren't using the official cards. And then you had people on the forums talking about how they were going to stick with the clones because the DLC was too expensive.

Actually, I said big AND small publishers can afford the monthly fee. You also totally misread how the revenue sharing works. They send a report within 60 days of the end of each quarter and if your TOTAL earnings are over $300 they send you a check. It's actually very similar to a lot of online media revenue platforms. They hold your money until you hit a minimum amount. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing in Berserk's contracts. What's more, the licensing of games for the premium service is not necessarily linked to the pay service for game creators. It's a separate contract between Tabletopia and the publisher. There is nothing in the contract stating your game will be removed if you fail to pay a monthly fee. The pay services for creators are more like advertising. A hobbyist may get by with one game or pay for the cheaper service if they really want to play around with a few ideas. A publisher shouldn't have any trouble covering the cost of either of the higher tiers, though. They're certainly willing to pay more than that on advertising on other sites and having official online versions of your games are a better way to introduce people to your product and sell them on the physical copies than banner ads.

It seems you're talking out of your ass when it comes to having "No trouble"

I didn't find anything for Superfight
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160&searchtext=Superfight&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

Mistfall has add-ons, no copies.
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160&searchtext=Mistfall&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

Token packs for Scythe
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160&searchtext=Scythe&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

Alt dice for Battle of Souls
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=286160&searchtext=Battle+for+souls&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems

Nothing for Euphoria.

The only one I found was for Darkest Night, that was uploaded in Jan 2015. The DLC was put up Jan 2016. The devs probably don't care, then. So, we'll just go with you're talking out of your ass, then.

You're saying Tabletopia will just skirt the required monthly payment if your game has assets not included by Tabletopia itself? So I can just pay, say, 1 month. Upload the game. Stop paying them, and just collect money. Get real.

Whatever floats your boat, in the end.

[isu-kun]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Arkterus:

No.
https://tabletopia.com/tabletopia-license-summary.pdf
"IF the total amount of money due is more than 300 USD- make a payment"
That is within 60 days after the end of each quarter.

Actually, yes. It's funny you can be reading from the same document and still get it wrong. Twice. You do know what total means, right?

As for finding hack job copies, you do realize that the workshop isn't the only place people post games, right? That's kind of the problem with not having a unified service, people can post their modules wherever they please and the publishers can't do much to moderate them. That's ok, though, I'm sure you just forgot how to use google.

Monetization is a contract with Tabletopia. You link the file, but obviously didn't read it. It's not some switch you flip like with google, you enter into a contract with the Tabletopia crew and your game is made available for the period outlined in the contract. The pay service on the publisher side has nothing to do with monetization.

You also seem pretty hung up on games that use assets "not supplied by Tabletopia," which basically translates to miniatures games, since that's really the only category of game that would find game creation restrictive without the pay service. Most publishers will find everything they need to create a table accurate version of their games right in the assets library. Everything is customizable and there are even limited options for custom pieces that TTS would require outside 3D models for. What's more, the editing tools are intutitive and don't require designers to have to futz around with texture files or create sheets of low resolution cards that have to be linked from outside web sites to work around memory restrictions and data transfer rates. As someone who actually works on original games, I've found Tabletopia to be far freindlier to the designer looking for a testing platform.

[Kitsune Zeta]

Well, looks like a bit of a discussion broke out here.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Arkterus:

So, in short, I'm not going to be paying this company to play a game that has scanned assets of a real board game that I already own, especially when it's already available on TTS and I don't have to pay anything extra for it.

Point number 1: the Tabletopia dev team aren't the ones making the assets. Point number 2: They may not necessarily be scanned assets, either.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

They also have some loftier goals they're trying to accomplish, such as writing AI scripts for games so you can play against the computer when your friends aren't around to play.

The funny thing about this is the steam greenlight page itself says there's no AI or rules enforcement, which would imply that's not planned. Actually, the only mention of an AI or other automation for tabletopia would be from a PDF dating back to April 29, 2015 (specifically, https://tabletopia.com/tabletopia.pdf ). Both the kickstarter and other more recent sources and announcements specifically state that Tabletopia's a sandbox and won't have AI or rules enforcement. In either case, Tabletop Simulator has automation support via LUA scripts (and the capability for the game's host to disable LUA scripts if they prefer doing everything by hand). I can realistically see, even in the current version of Tabletop Simulator, something resembling AI via LUA scripts, although I will concede the point that there's a few more things that need to be implemented in TTS (both in the API and in the game itself) for "true AI" players to happen. Those things might just be out of scope for Tabletop Simulator, though.

(for the sake of keeping this post short, assume I pointed this out for the other cases automation is mentioned as not being in Tabletop Simulator but being in Tabletopia. There's a few, even from other people)

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

So you have to compete with pirates in a completely unmoderated market since Berserk has no desire or plans to moderate the workshop or track online game sources.

I actually saw that claim made in the recent Tabletop Simulator AMA on Reddit. More specifically, the claim was the only reason TTS was successful was due to pirated content and that Berserk Games is not just ignoring it, but actively encouraging it. Not only is this claim patently false (you might have noticed, had you done your research, that the trailer contest for TTS specifically required that the person submitting their entry have rights to any IP used that's not built-in to TTS itself), even if Berserk Games wanted to police the workshop, they can't - at best, all they can do is tag a mod as "incompatible."

And I know for a fact that they could've done a curated workshop like some other games do (I know Rock Band 4, should it come to PC, will use the Steam Workshop for RBN), but that only shifts where the user-created content will be coming from to a place (or set of places) that's harder to moderate. Considering most people don't look further than the Steam Workshop for Tabletop Simulator stuff, this probably worked out for the better as far as the big-name publishers are concerned while also simplifying the process for end-users to get the items into their game.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

As for going belly up, the same applies to TTS since every game asset has to be hosted online. If the game stops being supported, you're going to still have to rely on other people to keep their assets alive online, and I can guarantee you they won't be available forever if the interest wanes to the point of them going belly up. Hell, they don't even have to go belly up for that to happen. Plus you will have the same issue of player interest and if the game is pulled entirely, there won't be anywhere to even purchase copies to get to your interested friends or gaming group, anyway, so really both have their complications if they go under. The only way to guarantee ownership either way is with a physical copy. Most people aren't going to make the games themselves or back them up so they're available in case the game becomes unavailable.

a couple points: DLC games in Tabletop Simulator (e.g. Tiny Epic Galaxies) have all their assets built into the game itself, which means even without an internet connection and with caching disabled, the assets still load. This also serves as a way to quickly identify if DLC assets are used - if any items point to those DLC assets, you need the appropriate DLC to use them - attempting to load a workshop item or game save that uses a DLC item from a DLC game you don't have will fail and open the steam store page for that DLC instead.

With regards to workshop items, it is a bit different, but from what I've read, tabletopia's worse in that regard. With TTS, yes, the assets have to be hosted SOMEWHERE. Generally, that SOMEWHERE is going to be dropbox or imgur or some other spot readily visible to the internet, but it could very well be hosted on a personal server. Tabletopia, on the other hand, does host the items but from my understanding, those can be pulled at any time either by the publisher deciding to no longer offer the game on Tabletopia (as they're bound by the 10-game limit - I'm assuming for the sake of argument here that all of these are at the $20/month subscription level) or the Tabletopia devs after the publisher decides not to continue their monthly fee (which is another oddity with Tabletopia in general - for whatever reason, Tabletopia felt a need to require the publishers - or as I'll refer to them from now on, the content providers - to pay them to provide the content to their consumers, which seems weird to me.)

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

[replaced arkterus's post in quote with "blah blah blah, I don't like to read or research anything, blah blah."]

...seriously? moving on...

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

Funny how I have no problem finding hack job copies of the DLC. In fact, it's been a concern since Superfight first came out. The publisher tried to convince people to ignore the clones by claiming they weren't using the official cards. And then you had people on the forums talking about how they were going to stick with the clones because the DLC was too expensive.

Clones are one thing (Cards Against Humanity is very much in direct competition with Superfight, as is Apples to Apples), but outright "hack job copies" I don't see for Superfight. Or any of the DLC except, as arkterus mentioned, Darkest Night.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Arkterus:

What I stated is that you need a pretty big pool of players playing your game every month to break even with the monthly fee included. You could go into the negative.

I don't really see this being a possibility, although I will admit I haven't fully researched how payments to the content providers are handled. I'm going to refer to another pdf ( https://tabletopia.com/tabletopia_for_publishers.pdf ) that was released at the same time as the other PDF, which is a bit easier to parse for the payment calculation than the license summary pdf. In order to break even, you need to, at worst, have $20.00 per month revenue (or $60 per quarter).

Let's assert a playerbase of... say, 10,000 premium players (simplifies the math on my end). of those, let's say 7,500 of them are Silver and the remaining 2,500 are Gold. This comes out to somewhere in the ballpark of $62,400 (taxes and other fees not factored in). Remove 30% of this (Tabletopia's cut), and the total amount to be paid out to content providers is in the ballpack of $43,680

Now, let's assert that for this playerbase, 75,000 hours is spent (on average) playing games from the premium catalog. This comes down to, on average, 58.24 cents for every hour played in that month.

WIth this, to break even, assuming all my math is correct (wouldn't be the first time I'm wrong with my math), you'd need... a mere 35 hours of consumer play time per month (on average) to break even. (there's a bit more finesse to it, it seems, since all the above is actually only calculated quarterly, not monthly, but the basic math works out the same)

Granted, if your game ends up getting pulled for whatever reason (such as not paying whatever monthly fee you were paying to have the features needed to implement the game in the first place), your hours will obviously start going to 0, which means you're not going to get revenue.

[isu-kun]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kitsune Zeta:

The funny thing about this is the steam greenlight page itself says there's no AI or rules enforcement, which would imply that's not planned. Actually, the only mention of an AI or other automation for tabletopia would be from a PDF dating back to April 29, 2015 (specifically, https://tabletopia.com/tabletopia.pdf ). Both the kickstarter and other more recent sources and announcements specifically state that Tabletopia's a sandbox and won't have AI or rules enforcement.

Actually, they only state it doesn't have it, not that it won't. If you read through the kickstarter, they specifically state it's planned and they mention it in most of their marketing material and talk about it frequently on their web site. From the kickstarter: "2. We have plans to add rules enforcement and an AI option for our games. To make this flexible and with clear API is a very time consuming and complicated task." While AI options are likely going to be the last thing they implement into the service, at some point they are going to have to address rule enforcement and automation as it's required for other features they plan to implement, like stat tracking and some components of their matchmaking service they hope to tie into that. They have brought in some elements of it already with their counter system and turn management, but they still have more to do.

I actually saw that claim made in the recent Tabletop Simulator AMA on Reddit. More specifically, the claim was the only reason TTS was successful was due to pirated content and that Berserk Games is not just ignoring it, but actively encouraging it.

Except that's not the claim I or anyone on here was making, just that Berserk does nothing to police it, which they have admitted to. And there ARE ways to moderate the workshop. If ther weren't we'd be seeing more copies of the DLC IN the workshop. Berserk just leaves it to the publishers to handle that on their own. Unfortunately, this doesn't stop people from going to other mod sites or posting files directly to reddit. And accessibility isn't as big an issue when the pirated content can be transferred directly in game.

Clones are one thing (Cards Against Humanity is very much in direct competition with Superfight, as is Apples to Apples), but outright "hack job copies" I don't see for Superfight. Or any of the DLC except, as arkterus mentioned, Darkest Night.

Clones as in direct copies of the game. I can do a quick google search and find copies of every DLC game online and you don't have to pay for any of them. As I said, the workshop isn't the only source for this stuff.

In regaurd to "breaking even" on premium games, it doesn't matter. Arkterus is wrong in how the premium games work. It's independent from the paid accounts. You enter a contract with Tabletopia directly, which obligates them to host your game for the duration of the contracted time (In the sample document 3 years). You can have Premium games and not have a paid account. It's not youtube, there isn't some switch you flip to make something premium or standard.

You do make a good point about the paid accounts and I'm actually trying to get some answers on that one from the CEO on the official forums at the moment. Not paying does lock all but one game from your library, but you would still have access to the assets you created. It seems you can get some of the benefits by simply paying for a month to build a game and then cancelling your subscription, you just won't be able to host multiple games. Although they did make the point that it's not supposed to be a platform for playtesting and they don't want a lot of incomplete or in progress projects cluttering the library, which is kind of understandable.

[Kitsune Zeta]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

Except that's not the claim I or anyone on here was making, just that Berserk does nothing to police it, which they have admitted to. And there ARE ways to moderate the workshop. If there weren't we'd be seeing more copies of the DLC IN the workshop. Berserk just leaves it to the publishers to handle that on their own. Unfortunately, this doesn't stop people from going to other mod sites or posting files directly to reddit. And accessibility isn't as big an issue when the pirated content can be transferred directly in game.

You're still making the claim that Berserk Games CAN actively moderate the workshop and remove items from it as it currently is, when if you actually read my post (or the AMA on reddit), they CANNOT. Marking an item as "incompatible" does nothing to its availability. There are only three ways an item gets removed from the workshop: Either the author removes it, a DCMA takedown notice removes it, or VALVE THEMSELVES remove it. You'll notice Berserk Games isn't listed anywhere in that.

Clones as in direct copies of the game. I can do a quick google search and find copies of every DLC game online and you don't have to pay for any of them. As I said, the workshop isn't the only source for this stuff.

It is the main source and again, the vast majority of Tabletop Simulator users aren't going to look any further than the workshop. However, your claim that a quick google search produces save files that can be loaded into a legal copy of Tabletop Simulator with no issues... seems to be proven wrong in the majority of cases. Let's run down that list:

Superfight: I see... cracks only. Which means you need a cracked (non-legal) version of Tabletop Simulator.

Cosmic Encounter: I actually do see an item... on Nexusmods from back in 2014, back when Tabletop Simulator using the very old, ugly Unity-style interface. Not even sure if it even loads now.

Tiny Epic Galaxies: Again, I'm only seeing cracks. The funny thing is I'm not seeing cracks specifically for Tiny Epic Galaxies. Nothing that could be used on a legal version of Tabletop Simulator, in any case.

Battle for Souls: yet more cracks.

Euphoria: still no save files

Darkest Night: ignoring this since it's STILL on the workshop. If I had to guess, based on previous searches... cracks.

Mistfall: still failing to find these save files you claim exist.

Scythe: it does look like it's on the wor- no, wait, dead link on the google search results page.

So out of the 7 I actually did google searches for, exactly 1 produced a save file which may or may not even LOAD in the current version of Tabletop Simulator. Your claim's not exactly standing up to scrutiny.

In regaurd to "breaking even" on premium games, it doesn't matter. Arkterus is wrong in how the premium games work. It's independent from the paid accounts. You enter a contract with Tabletopia directly, which obligates them to host your game for the duration of the contracted time (In the sample document 3 years). You can have Premium games and not have a paid account. It's not youtube, there isn't some switch you flip to make something premium or standard.

At this point, I'm not certain if any of us have enough of the information to say with full certainty that the others are wrong.

You do make a good point about the paid accounts and I'm actually trying to get some answers on that one from the CEO on the official forums at the moment. Not paying does lock all but one game from your library, but you would still have access to the assets you created. It seems you can get some of the benefits by simply paying for a month to build a game and then cancelling your subscription, you just won't be able to host multiple games. Although they did make the point that it's not supposed to be a platform for playtesting and they don't want a lot of incomplete or in progress projects cluttering the library, which is kind of understandable.

Yeah, some authoritative answers would be very useful.

(you also contradicted the whole 3-years thing in this paragraph, but again, I'm not certain any of us have enough info to confirm the others are wrong with absolute certainty)

[isu-kun]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kitsune Zeta:

You're still making the claim that Berserk Games CAN actively moderate the workshop and remove items from it as it currently is, when if you actually read my post (or the AMA on reddit), they CANNOT. Marking an item as "incompatible" does nothing to its availability. There are only three ways an item gets removed from the workshop: Either the author removes it, a DCMA takedown notice removes it, or VALVE THEMSELVES remove it. You'll notice Berserk Games isn't listed anywhere in that.

Is there a button they can press to remove an item from the workshop? No. Can they have something removed due to copyright infringement? Absolutely. Berserk has stated they have no desire to do this, however, and they leave policing solely to the publishers. The reason you don't see any of the DLC games cloned in the workshop is because the publishers actively have those removed from the workshop. Could Berserk be doing that on their own? Also absolutely.

Superfight: I see... cracks only. Which means you need a cracked (non-legal) version of Tabletop Simulator.

I gotta say, you really suck at google. First search I did for Superfight brought up a working save file in the first link. Search results for the other games gave me similar results.

At this point, I'm not certain if any of us have enough of the information to say with full certainty that the others are wrong.

You may not be, but I am. I'm in the closed beta, so it is easier for me to ask direct questions like this. In fact, asking about the monetization platform was one of the first things I did when I got into the closed beta.

(you also contradicted the whole 3-years thing in this paragraph, but again, I'm not certain any of us have enough info to confirm the others are wrong with absolute certainty)

Only if you didn't read what I said. Premium games are a separate deal made between the publisher and Tabletopia, they do not fall under the subscription plan and are not subject to the limitations that fall under it. You don't pay anything to host a premium game. You're not limited to a certain number of premium titles, you don't have restricted setups, and you aren't paying monthly to host your game. In fact, the premium titles aren't even hosted under your account. Tabletopia is actually pretty flexible when it comes to making deals with publishers. Most of the 200+ games that are on the service were built with the help of the Tabletopia team and are actually not hosted on publisher accounts. You can actually see this in the list of games in the closed Beta. Only a handful of the current library are actually privately made and hosted games. The pay service is mostly for small and indie publishers who want a platform to advertise their games, and it's already a better platform in that regard. Game pages have links to the publisher sites and even links to online store sites that sell the physical game and the BGG page. Tabletopia isn't supposed to be an open platform for everybody and anybody to post a game, hence the fee, but if a publisher came to them with an established title they wanted to add to the library, the Tabletopia crew are going to accomodate them, even going so far as to make the game assets and setups for them, just to further expand their library.

[Kitsune Zeta]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von isu-kun:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kitsune Zeta:

You're still making the claim that Berserk Games CAN actively moderate the workshop and remove items from it as it currently is, when if you actually read my post (or the AMA on reddit), they CANNOT. Marking an item as "incompatible" does nothing to its availability. There are only three ways an item gets removed from the workshop: Either the author removes it, a DCMA takedown notice removes it, or VALVE THEMSELVES remove it. You'll notice Berserk Games isn't listed anywhere in that.

Is there a button they can press to remove an item from the workshop? No. Can they have something removed due to copyright infringement? Absolutely. Berserk has stated they have no desire to do this, however, and they leave policing solely to the publishers.

because from the legal perspective, if Berserk Games were to start actively checking workshop items for the legal rights for them to be there, they give up legal protections under the DCMA.

You may not be, but I am. I'm in the closed beta

which apparently means your word is god. yes, you've been rubbing that in, but others I've spoken to that are in the closed beta outright contradict you on numerous points, including the availability of games after a publisher stops paying the monthly fee.

[isu-kun]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kitsune Zeta:

because from the legal perspective, if Berserk Games were to start actively checking workshop items for the legal rights for them to be there, they give up legal protections under the DCMA.

Which is why other developers do exactly that without losing their legal protection? Someone is certainly full of it, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's Berserk.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kitsune Zeta:

which apparently means your word is god. yes, you've been rubbing that in, but others I've spoken to that are in the closed beta outright contradict you on numerous points, including the availability of games after a publisher stops paying the monthly fee.

Gotta call BS on that one. There is no subscription plan at the moment, so unless they asked specifically about it, they wouldn't know. Nice try, though.

[O.G Willikers]

Isu-kun sent a friend request. Have a tabletopia question or two if you dont mind. Plus its just nice to have more friends that play board games

[Riffy]

My only real concert I'd love an answer for is, does this control better than TTS? That is one of TTS's biggest failings in that the controls feel clunky and not well thought out. On a side note anyone know if this will support the vive?

[YellowAfterlife]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Geobaldi:

Not to mention that Tabletopia devs plan to add AI to their games in the future. Something TTS won't be adding.

TTS recently added Lua scripting, which permits the users to implement AI in their workshop uploads. Still pretty clunky though.

Curious to see how this will work out overall - I think there's space for a more polished software\service of this kind.

[isu-kun]

I like the controls better. They're more streamlined and most things can be done with context controls by left clicking. The help system is easier and more accessible, though, and there are tutorials on youtube.

As I've said before, Tabletopia wasn't designed as a physics simulator, so it's main focus right from the start was board gaming. Everything is designed around that.