Warehouse 36: Worst. Puzzle. EVER.

[BionicDance]

So... right at the beginning of the game, they put the crappiest puzzle I've ever seen.

Three winch parts? I can only find two; apparently, flubbing the check means you can't even find the third part. Greeeeeat.
Bribe the two sailors to clear the way for you...? Get beat up by the bootlegger lady. Greeeeeat.

After wandering around for quite some time trying to find what I missed, I looked it up and there are apparently multiple--and unreasonably convoluted, not to mention counter intuitive--ways to get into the stupid warehouse, but by the time I got to that point, I just didn't want to play the game anymore.

Stupid, stupid, STUPID puzzle that shouldn't even be a puzzle, frankly. This isn't what I signed on for; you probably shouldn't frustrate the player with something so damned stupid as getting into a building right at the beginning of the game. That's bad game design.
Y'think?

[BionicDance]

I mean, they could at least have had a message saying, "There is still a part missing for the winch," or something.
And then I read online that, even if you find all three parts, you can still flub a strength check.

Who designed this stupid mess of a game???

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

And then I read online that, even if you find all three parts, you can still flub a strength check.

Who designed this stupid mess of a game???

That's exactly what happened to me. Eventually I found all 3 parts but failed the skill check and it won't let you do anything else with the winch.

Then I found another way in (that has two ways to access that particular option) but I botched another check so it wouldn't work either.

Had no choice but to go with option 3.

After playing for a few hours I get the impression that it's intended to feel like an old school style adventure and investigation game. The skill checks absolutely lock you out of certain options, and it gives you very limited ways to solve certain puzzles or issues, but there seems to always be some way to make progress.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Macdallan:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

And then I read online that, even if you find all three parts, you can still flub a strength check.

Who designed this stupid mess of a game???

That's exactly what happened to me. Eventually I found all 3 parts but failed the skill check and it won't let you do anything else with the winch.

Then I found another way in (that has two ways to access that particular option) but I botched another check so it wouldn't work either.

Had no choice but to go with option 3.

After playing for a few hours I get the impression that it's intended to feel like an old school style adventure and investigation game. The skill checks absolutely lock you out of certain options, and it gives you very limited ways to solve certain puzzles or issues, but there seems to always be some way to make progress.

I still harbor resentment toward Infocom over the Babel Fish puzzle; challenge is one thing, but I don't like games that deliberately frustrate the player.

Get enough of that in the real world.

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

I still harbor resentment toward Infocom over the Babel Fish puzzle; challenge is one thing, but I don't like games that deliberately frustrate the player.

Get enough of that in the real world.

I remember that game and you aren't kidding, you had to type the right nouns and commands or it just wouldn't do anything and if you did something out of order... not good.

Edit: I got to a mandatory stealth section in this game and it feels worse than the warehouse puzzle. It's very tedious and annoying.

[Sokurah]

Even if you get all three parts, it just breaks XD

I don't know what was that about and ended up bribing the guys to start a quarrel. So far the game feel pretty meh. I was hoping it to be a bit like "the sinking city". A bit inept but with it's own charm.

It's a bit too early but so far i'm not hooked.

[BionicDance]

And it stinks, too, cuz I really wanted to like this game, or at least play this game.
My table-top group just finished our D&D campaign and switched over to Call of Cthulhu, so I thought it might be fun...

... but alas.

[Cain]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

I mean, they could at least have had a message saying, "There is still a part missing for the winch," or something.
And then I read online that, even if you find all three parts, you can still flub a strength check.

Who designed this stupid mess of a game???

There is a message that tells you you're still missing a part. It's basically the tutorial for the detect hidden skill. It locks you out of a route because you didn't invest in strength earlier, but it doesn't block progress.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Cain:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

I mean, they could at least have had a message saying, "There is still a part missing for the winch," or something.
And then I read online that, even if you find all three parts, you can still flub a strength check.

Who designed this stupid mess of a game???

There is a message that tells you you're still missing a part.

I assure you, there is not.

It's basically the tutorial for the detect hidden skill.

And you'd never know it if you flub the roll.

It locks you out of a route because you didn't invest in strength earlier, but it doesn't block progress.

No, it just forces you into other situations where you can flub rolls and not get in.

I'm sorry, but if the very first puzzle is insanely convoluted and full of possible silent failures, I'm not playing the rest of the game. You wanna put a puzzle like that in the game, you stick it in the middle.

[Sokurah]

Well I just finised the game in less than 8 hours. I guess I could play it again and see what different choices do, but honestly idk why anyone would play this more than once.

The puzzles are boring, the investigation part is boring, the different ways how you can progress seem meaningless. The characters and the voice acting is bad.

Overall it's just not really a good game. Often there hardly is any real investigation. You just interact with 3-4 objects to proceed. Puzzles often don't even deserve the name. It's just finding a missing item or note. Some gameplay sections feel more like poking in the dark and finding random hidden stuff again. It's pretty linear.

The end of the game is just a dragged out cutscene with some walking sections.

The story seems okay, from what I understood but it's a bit convoluted, even for a game like this. But on the other hand maybe i just tuned out at some point because I started to get bored.

I'm pretty disappointed with this one.

[Cain]

I assure you, there is not.

It's on the bottom left. It tells you there are more objects hidden in the room. It does not directly say that it is related to the winch, but it is there. You may need a higher detect hidden skill to see it.

And you'd never know it if you flub the roll.

No, it tells you that there are objects hidden in the room and how to see that they're there. That is the tutorial part. You may not know that the winch is an actual option if you flub the roll, though.

No, it just forces you into other situations where you can flub rolls and not get in.

You will always have a way to progress. Even if it's not the path you wanted. It's primarily an exploration game and there was no difficulty attached to this puzzle. There are very few, if any, actual puzzles within the game. The issue is that you didn't want to explore at all, and that's *fine*, it's just not your kind of game.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Cain:

I assure you, there is not.

It's on the bottom left. It tells you there are more objects hidden in the room. It does not directly say that it is related to the winch, but it is there. You may need a higher detect hidden skill to see it.

Well, that's my point: it's the very first puzzle of the game and already your stats might be too low to get past it! If you didn't know Warehouse 36 was coming, you could screw yourself during character creation.

That's bad design, right there.

And you'd never know it if you flub the roll.

No, it tells you that there are objects hidden in the room and how to see that they're there.

I don't know which game you're playing, but this did not happen.

That is the tutorial part.

A tutorial you can fail without any reason why given.

You may not know that the winch is an actual option if you flub the roll, though.

Except that the winch is there, it's obviously a potential solution, and if you don't know where the parts are because you flubbed the roll, yet you can still fiddle with the winch with no results, it's just plain confusing.

No, it just forces you into other situations where you can flub rolls and not get in.

You will always have a way to progress. Even if it's not the path you wanted.

Except I tried another path and failed that one, too.

This is not how you get players engaged in a game, makin' 'em cranky-pissed right at the start.

It's primarily an exploration game and there was no difficulty attached to this puzzle.

Except Spot-Hidden rolls, which you can flub...

There are very few, if any, actual puzzles within the game.

And they stuck an extremely annoying and confusing one at the very beginning.
That's bad game design.

The issue is that you didn't want to explore at all, and that's *fine*, it's just not your kind of game.

Oh, piss off. I explored. I explored at lot.
But because the Spot-Hidden roll for one of the gears or cogs had been invisibly flubbed, I had no idea how to proceed after that. Except to get my butt kicked by wuzzerface's goons when I thought I had found another way in.

And I'm thinkin' that if there are two ways to fail that puzzle, there are probably more, and at that point it just seems like the developers are deliberately punking the player. And I don't have time for that crap, don't have time for a game that wants to piss me off right at the beginning.

[Cain]

Oh, piss off. I explored. I explored at lot.
But because the Spot-Hidden roll for one of the gears or cogs had been invisibly flubbed, I had no idea how to proceed after that. Except to get my butt kicked by wuzzerface's goons when I thought I had found another way in.

And I'm thinkin' that if there are two ways to fail that puzzle, there are probably more, and at that point it just seems like the developers are deliberately punking the player. And I don't have time for that crap, don't have time for a game that wants to piss me off right at the beginning.

After doing it around 10 times I'm not sure that it's possible to even fail that spot-hidden check. So my guess is that you did not explore as much as you think you did.

There are several checks you can fail early on, but it's not that convoluted. It's not even a puzzle, unless you're trying to go a specific route.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Cain:

Oh, piss off. I explored. I explored at lot.
But because the Spot-Hidden roll for one of the gears or cogs had been invisibly flubbed, I had no idea how to proceed after that. Except to get my butt kicked by wuzzerface's goons when I thought I had found another way in.

And I'm thinkin' that if there are two ways to fail that puzzle, there are probably more, and at that point it just seems like the developers are deliberately punking the player. And I don't have time for that crap, don't have time for a game that wants to piss me off right at the beginning.

After doing it around 10 times I'm not sure that it's possible to even fail that spot-hidden check. So my guess is that you did not explore as much as you think you did.

And yet, it doesn't take much of a Google search to find plenty of people stymied by this puzzle.
Maybe your experience isn't typical.

There are several checks you can fail early on

That's all you needed to say.
Those checks are often invisible to the player, so there is no reason to even suspect why what seems so obvious isn't working.

[グレムリン]

Dude, I was half enjoying myself until I found a woman in 1920's approach me whose apparently the lead of a gang. I then proceed to PUNCH HER IN THE FACE. And then there's no repercussion. Her gang members just stand there as their glorious leader takes one to the face.

I'm sorry but if you want me to buy into your storytelling you have to make it at least halfway believable.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by SaffroN:

Dude, I was half enjoying myself until I found a woman in 1920's approach me whose apparently the lead of a gang. I then proceed to PUNCH HER IN THE FACE. And then there's no repercussion. Her gang members just stand there as their glorious leader takes one to the face.

She kicked me right in the nards and I couldn't get past her goons after that.
... well, she kicked the main character in the nards; I don't have nards.

There are so many ways to fail this puzzle, and it seems like getting past it is just dumb luck. And it's the very first thing you do in the game that's not completely on rails.
What a stupid developer choice.