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And yes, you really can do that too...just don't get caught by the town guards.
No witnesses ;-)
You could always try the upstanding way and just get the best items you possibly can for your Inn. Don't try to stock the really expensive foods and drinks, but try to have a medium in them and always fully stocked.
If you're a patron, you could always have a Fishery (?) and try to supply the Inn with some foods that Inns don't normally create or carry.
Usually what happens is in the early game you'll find yourself spamming the market with your stuff that's not selling. This creates a surplus of goods that the market then tries to get rid of for a cheap price, underselling you.
Also, competitors will flood the market at times with these items as well, especially competitors from other cities. I always saturate their markets with my excess stock just to hurt their business.
Using this strategy, you can see what the market has less of, then produce that, because your "Base" price needs to be lower than the markets selling price in order for people to want to buy from you.
Other than that, you can invest your skill points in "Best House In Town", as well as upgrade your buildings to include the vanity items/features that will give you bonus points towards "Attraction" thus bringing in more business.
If I stink bomb the inn and the thug gets caught, will the thug get punished or my dynasty?
LMAO...no wait...LMAO ROF
ok...ok...I'm good....
If the Thugs get caught, then of course they get punished...they'll be attacked...and then it comes back to you as their employer.
No reward without risk my friend.
Ok...here's how to do this....
If you're a rogue, which you probably aren't, you could always have your "ladies of the enening" from your Pub distract the town guard...along with everyone else. Very powerful ploy that one, but you have to use it right.
If you have no will to take a risk, then I suggest if you are a Patron, to get a fishing shack and supply your Inn with fish (Fried Herring and or Salmon) and offset the patrons going elsewhere.
Also, you might want to upgrade your Inn to the highest that you can. This will also attact more people to your Inn.
As someone else suggested, if you have the skill or trait "Best house in town" this also adds to your characters prestige and will bring in more customers.
There used to be a setting that allowed you to lower the price of goods sold...but I might be thinking of the original guild series, but i think you can do it. Not in Game right now so I'm not sure.
I know there is a going price and a price I believe you can set. On the other hand, as the updates from JoWood came about, it seems to have negated some of the older rules and features and I don't think that Nordic will actually patch the game that far, their only the licensed distributor of the game and can only do so much.
Before you go with the "Stink Bomb" you can try the alternative way to go about it.
There is also character assassination as well. I'm guessing you didn't know about that as well...
Character assassination can be done by either...
A) the town cryer (Or it used ot be done through him)
B) The town message board. (A big message board that sits near the market usually...depends what town you are in. Sounds like Hamburg)
Character assassination takes a bit longer than anything else as it takes people a while to start reading the messages.
If you're really careful and you make sure that NO ONE is around (hanging around outside) and if you can somehow distract the town guard as a precaution, you can stink bomb the place and be away before anyone realizes what happened.
I looked at the competitors public house - storage area and he was fully stocked to the brim. I then watched the market as he saturated the hell out of it with his own drinks/food. The same went for his bakery.
Although I was making great sales through my croft, it wasn't keeping me afloat because he wasn't buying from me in bulk, only around $24 worth of wheat per trip he made to my croft. I was the only croft in town though, so I cut off supply to him, I simply stopped selling goods and stockpiled them instead.
I watched as he had to pay top dollar for his supplies from the market which was now selling it's last few supplies to him. After a turn or two, he put both his public house and bakery up for sale. I took out a loan, bought a new title, and bought both from him. Well, if I can be honest, his bakery was on the outskirts of town, so I took that one over with some nicely placed bombs, but after that, I did buy his public house legitimately.
It was close paying back the loan. But, I kept right click/holding over my porridge/etc to see how much stock the market had left, and low-and-behold as soon as their stock dropped people started flooding my public house. I ended up using his public house because it was upgraded more than mine and was in a better position.
I fired the employee from my own public house and transferred all sales/stock to my new public house. I never demo or sell the building early on because you're only creating more competition for yourself. I just fire the employees, keep it a low level, and use it for XP for one of my offspring, or just a placeholder for future real estate later.
Using this method, I didn't have to waste money on upgrades that improved attractiveness, etc, because I was the only place in town to get a good drink and meal at.
Selling to the market is great for "fast cash" but you're going to get market value for the items. If you just sold 80 wheat beers to the market at $14/beer you can expect them to be saturated and the next time you sell to them you're only going to get $7/beer. But if you sell directly from your stock, you're going to get your base price of $24/beer and that never changes. Only sell to the market if you're extremely desperate for cash because it takes ages for people to buy from the market and balance supply vs demand back out.
A word of warning...
Depending on the severity of the laws, your character could end up doing time. I forgot to mention that before.
Rrocks just reminded me talking about fire bombing a building.
You could try what Rrocks did and starve him out for raw materials, for some reason I didn;t think about that idea. Very solid too =P
If you can get your hands on the croft and orchard building thing, you're golden because depending on the map size, there may only be room for one. The more likely scenario is that the computer is not programmed to make their own, or it's based on a random number generator as to what building's they'll build next.
You can totally dominate the market by starving them out, it's a little slow, but it's painful for them, and slow and painful brings so much satisfaction.
Sure you can create a fishery, and just serve cooked herring all day long, or make a rogue/pub then save scum the dice game, but at that point you might as well edit the config file to set your start money to 1000000 or something.
I like coming up with creative ways of dominating the AI and roleplaying out what I would've actually done had it been me back then.
If you do the rogue proper, you get the thieves guild to pick-pocket, and have 3 of them standing on corners.
Then, buy the pub when you can afford it and send the girls out for "Solicious activity" and build up mor money.
On top of that....
You get the Pirate Den and you have girls there as well. You have them do the "Solicious activities" as well and then to top it off, you also have a pirate ship you can use to pirate goods.
If you do it right, no cheating and no "Scum Save" for the dice, you can make a pretty good amount of cash.
Now...on the other side of this, you also have a spouse and later a child.
If you do it right, you'll have 3 classes you can play at once. OR when the rogue dies, if you have a patron, they can still "run" the buisness even if they can't build one.
So technically you can start out as a rogue with all the buildings and when your character dies, you can pretty much do what you want.
Patron, Craftsman, and on top of that also to the political thing. Especially if you've been playing a while and your pretty close to a noble.
You can literally RUN the town of your choice.
=)
I agree 100%. I didn't mean to imply that you were save scumming with your rogue. I was just letting him know that it's a common method people do use when frustrated in the beginning parts of the game. If you are a new-ish player, and use these tactics, you'll never learn how to play the game proper.
My Renaissance game isn't as strong as my Guild 2 vanilla game. It seems more like a grind in Renaissance because they nerfed so many things; Patrons can no longer sell the cows they breed directly to the market. They need fruits from an Orchard to make beers. You can't do a hostile takeover on a Mine at all, etc etc.
This doesn't really make the game harder by any means, it just makes the game longer, as it takes longer to build up income because you cannot create a proper production line as quickly because you can only own a few business's in the beginning, plus finances are low in the beginning. Once you do establish your production line though, it's just as simple as the vanilla version and you don't have to worry so much about relying on market prices.
In vanilla, patron was my goto class, because with a croft and public house, I was set to win each game hands down. I didn't have to worry about warring it out with some other family because I was filthy rich within a few turns.
In Renaissance, I find myself starting as a Rogue. I buy the robbers nest thing and a pub straight away. I use my pub to sell fenced goods at. I use my main guy to waylay with two random thugs I hire, while the third random thug does extortion runs. Once I get the money right, I buy the thieves den thing, and setup pick pockets as you stated.
Depending on money, I'll either marry a scholar and put her in politics ignoring the scholar chain of buildings as they are the most frustrating for me. Or, I'll marry a patron if I'm struggling for cash and rob the orchards/crofts for supplies to produce my goods instead of having to deal with the market.
What's your other strats?
Nope, didn't think you thought I was scum saving (although it's easy to do), but it's a tactic some people use that to get large amounts of cash quick.
I used it once and then the game was pretty boring after...So I don't do it. It's like cheating or scripting in cash or something.
I think the gambling would be pretty good if it was better thought out and didn't ruin the game in a way.
Anyway....
I usually get the Mercenary Camp instead of the Robber camp...thing...castle. Although I'm beginning to think both are kind of broken in a way.
When you use the Merc camp, you collect tolls...and the people get upset with you and turn their faction friendliness to Feud unless you collect tolls only periodically.
When you use the Robber camp, they seem to know it's your men that are robbing them for some reason.
It's not like their calling out your name like the merc camp people do when their collecting tolls
" (your name) is keeping the roads safe so the toll is fair"
In my opinion, the patron and the rogue are the easiest, and sometimes the most fun. The craftsman and scholar tend to get you large amounts of money, but in slower fasion as you have to be able to make everything and it takes some time for some of their items.
Depending on the map, if it's large enough, you can put a buisness in each city one ofter the other. The only thing is that if their are bandits about, your trade wagons become vulnerable to attack...unless you know where their taking your stuff LOL...then you can take a potion of your goods back from the thieves.
If you like playing a patron, then the best way to do it is to make sure tat you have all the things you need to keep your character self sufficient. No need to get anything from the market when you can make everything yourself.
The farms and the Inn are pretty much all you need.
You can even build the farms outside the city, as you kind of have ot anyway except with London as they have a little room on the other side of the city, but barely large enough for the croft thats already there.
I usually start the game using a rogue as I can never wrench the Inn away from the NPCs that tend to grab it first, not to mention in order to buy the thing you have to be a certain level anyway...unless that was changed.
(A lot of things were changed with each expansion and no real documentation to let you know what was changed)
A lot of the strategies I use in the game tend to be on the fly as each game tends to be different for each and I try to play on the harder levels, this in turn makes the other dynasies a little more aggressive and a little more devious at times.
Because of that glitch, it made me wonder if he was collecting anything at all, so I gave up on that camp. The robber camp is good for doing extortions, I hit the mines up. If they refuse, then I send my main character to do a robbery overnight (as they're in the middle of nowhere, no chance of guards coming)...that usually convinces them that they need my protection for a while.
The Inn's are level 5 still I think. They are usually located in the heart of the town fully protected with guard patrols in the area. Firebombing one of those down is a pain, and they usually repair them before you can fully take it over. I try to disrupt infrastructure at this point and starve them out of supplies by controlling the goods they need to produce the items they sell.
This is harder in Renaissance because they added a RNG system to the market that simulates market trade each day, so one day the market could be out of something, then the next day have 99 of said item. People didn't take too kindly to that change, because at that point you might as well sell all your goods directly to the market as you make them and get any money you can in return.
Rogue then Patron on Renaissance, and Patron then Rogue on vanilla is how I like to play it out. I still enjoy vanilla more, it may be a nostalgic trigger or something, but it feels better to me. Renaissance seems like something that should have been a DLC for a few bucks, as they used the exact same engine, and just broke it more by adding things in haphazardly.
The real shame is the fact that the war system is broken in Renaissance, where they declare war in the early game before you can really support the war effort and then never mention war again, thus limiting how you can aquire imperial fame.
Besides that, like you said, the gambling thing is a great idea. But it should have been limited to how much you could bet, to where you would really have to grind it out for hours if you wanted to get "rich" from it. Plus the Scholar was a real let down because the loan coding is completely broken, and it's hit or miss if you're going to give out any loans as well as if people are ever going to pay back those loans. That's one of the biggest let downs to me because it had so much potential...to be that big banker, breaking peoples legs that didn't pay back their loans or imprisioning them, exiling them, etc.