Dominate animal spell is kinda useless in the game?

[quasilyte]

While the idea is appealing to some extent, we never come into a situation where we can utilize this spell.

I could only dominate an average spider due to the level limitations of this spell, but the spider would be a very weak minion for the amount of mana to upkeep; I could use an extra wolf instead and it would be more useful.

The main problem is: most (90%) of the monsters exceed the max dominatable level. If I have white magic 11, this means that I'm level 25. Which means that most monsters are in 15-25 level range. In turn, it means that I can't dominate even the weakest monsters on the level.

I think it's crazy that level 20 wm will allow you to capture level 20 monsters at the time you're supposedly close to level 50. How likely it is to find a level 20 monster on a lvl50 map worth dominating? :D
And even if we do dominate something, it costs even more mana I think than upkeeping a trusty wolf/bear, while having so much more effort involved (like finding the actual domination target).

Am I missing something?
Is there a way to apply this spell? :)

[Crypto Gamer]

I think Nature tree is underpowered.

Thorns got nerfed in a certain 2020 or 21 patch.........

Still very good in 1.54 IF used with STR and boons aka paladin.

1.61 fixed the thorns bug so it no longer scales with STR(including aura) but got increase base damage this effectively made it worse than fire shield on higher lvls..........

Cure disease is useful againts the rare pestilence usually found in SOTP via enemy mummies.I likely used it 5-10 times over 100 hours in the triology.........

Cure posion,poison is almost fully useless on higher lvls but you can cure it.........


Never tried dominate animal but max lvl dominate undead(necromancy) is lvl 39.........and blades are also undead and TOOD and SOTP has crap loads of undead.
Mummies are also undead.........
I think ghost are undead too........


And domination from mind magic lvl 20 is lvl 39 and also scales somewhat with charisma so few extra lvls above that.........

So max lvl 20 animal likely also scales with charisma but likely crap.......

So necromancy is a much stronger school than nature.

Death grasp is strong and can be used to kill deathtowers.

At lvl 20 you have 99% to survive attack which would kill you so can make summons much tankier.......


So you are not missing anything it is just nature is one of the weakest trees.

But nature summons are still okay.......

And yes summons are likely better as max lvl summon lvl 30 units.



But if you have went white magic boons is one of the strongest trees.

And many enemies are considered undead and anti undead damage even scales with charisma.......

[quasilyte]

This page doesn't mention the effect of Dominate Animal scaling with charisma:
https://spellforce.fandom.com/wiki/Stats_and_Abilities_in_SpellForce/Dominate_Animal
I wonder whether it does.
In my experience, lvl8 spell couldn't dominate lvl9 enemy, so perhaps it doesn't (because I had around 65-70 charisma and it should provide around x1.6 effect multiplier)

multiplier=(character's_charisma+15)/50

Cure poison is useless as well, but I don't mind that. :D
I think it's mostly because the on-hit poisons don't last long enough to pose any threat and this is almost the only real poison source in the SoD (I remember one Ork ~5 lvl shaman casting real poison and this was the only encounter). Cure pestilence could be cool in PvP games since otherwise that spell would be a real pain (I could be wrong here, maybe the land rate is crap).

But charm/dominate animal have their somewhat similar (by the function) counterparts. If you want a minion, you can either summon or dominate it. The summoning looks superior: not only it requires less efforts, but lvl X spell is usually summoning X+N level creature (for instance, summon wolf 12 is lvl 18 wolf summon), while dominate animal lvl X can dominate an animal lvl X at its best (e.g. dominate animal 12 can only capture an animal of lvl 12 or less).

P.S. - I don't look for a perfect balance. I just enjoy discussing things like that with other people who enjoy this old classic game. :)

[Crypto Gamer]

Spell tooltips do not show charisma scaling.

Not all mind or white magic spells scale.

I do not think summon spells scale.(might be wrong).

But mind magic charm gain max 1 or 2 lvl above "normal" does not use the usual charisma formula.

It likely gain bonus lvl when it reaches a certain charisma amount.

But even if you could charm a lvl22 wolf you can summon a lvl 30 one........

I actually use pestilence in PVE as it is very powerful and cheap you can do hit and run with it or even ice frezee+death you or some use fleet of clay(earth) so mobs can not move for a long time and get pestilenced and you run away.

[Farlon]

Originally posted by quasilyte:

This page doesn't mention the effect of Dominate Animal scaling with charisma:
https://spellforce.fandom.com/wiki/Stats_and_Abilities_in_SpellForce/Dominate_Animal
I wonder whether it does.
In my experience, lvl8 spell couldn't dominate lvl9 enemy, so perhaps it doesn't (because I had around 65-70 charisma and it should provide around x1.6 effect multiplier)

multiplier=(character's_charisma+15)/50

Cure poison is useless as well, but I don't mind that. :D
I think it's mostly because the on-hit poisons don't last long enough to pose any threat and this is almost the only real poison source in the SoD (I remember one Ork ~5 lvl shaman casting real poison and this was the only encounter). Cure pestilence could be cool in PvP games since otherwise that spell would be a real pain (I could be wrong here, maybe the land rate is crap).

But charm/dominate animal have their somewhat similar (by the function) counterparts. If you want a minion, you can either summon or dominate it. The summoning looks superior: not only it requires less efforts, but lvl X spell is usually summoning X+N level creature (for instance, summon wolf 12 is lvl 18 wolf summon), while dominate animal lvl X can dominate an animal lvl X at its best (e.g. dominate animal 12 can only capture an animal of lvl 12 or less).

P.S. - I don't look for a perfect balance. I just enjoy discussing things like that with other people who enjoy this old classic game. :)

Dominate animal should have same scaling as dominate undead, with lvl 39 being affected at lvl 20 spell.
That said the spell is still weak due to lack of animal enemies and when they do appear, their lvl is usually too high to be affected by your current available spell.

[Just Chill]

I agree.
These spells were only useful in my NG+ where I was able to use LVL12 spells of that kind from the start and befriend Fafna in Eloni.
Quite funny though. ^^

But when playing legit, they are not really of use.

I mean you can use them on "livestock" (well wolves and bears are normally not used as livestock XD) like regular deer, but they do not really tank any enemies as of being defeated quite quickly.
Furthermore, I haven't tried if killed livestock can be harvested by hunters.
So that would also reduce the food amount, if it's not possible.

[quasilyte]

I couldn't target any "neutral" animals with this spell.
Maybe it was fixed in the recent patch?
Not that it would be that useful, but at least it would be an option. :D

[Just Chill]

Originally posted by quasilyte:

I couldn't target any "neutral" animals with this spell.
Maybe it was fixed in the recent patch?
Not that it would be that useful, but at least it would be an option. :D

You're right.
I just tried it with Dominate and Charm Animal.
Weird I could have sworn that this was possible, then again I am on V1.61.

Hm, I may simply have summoned wolves and bears instead and somewhat recalled that wrongfully. :(
Sorry.


EDIT: I also confirm it doesn't work on V1.54.
So yeah, these spells are quite wrong (even though lifestock would have been a waste, they should still be considered "animals" ).

[mltnschroeder]

You need to power-level (see Skaidan's Power Leveling Guide here on Steam) so as to stay on top of the charming/dominating game. Usually the spell succeeds if your own spell level is at least 1/2 the level of the enemy you want to charm/dominate (ie. you can charm lvl 8 enemies if your charm spell lvl is 4 or higher). If you start to solo maps with your avatar, you are going to screw up your XP gain, and as a result you will lose the ability to charm enemies because your spell levels will be too low and you'll never catch up.

[quasilyte]

I mean, it's not the way I would like to play the game. :)
In my opinion, the spell shouldn't be like that.
Most games follow a less binary scheme, where a level difference results in a failure %, not in a flat 100% fail.
I'm fine with that skill not being usable tbh, it's not the only skill in the game that works like that.