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Thanks for the reply. I'd forgotten about that conversation with Thorus. For my TDE cultures, I'll aim to create some that are the Khorinis equivalent of Myrtanans.
Yes, Jahrkendar is conquered by unknown people, as "Thorus" tells in "Trelis", but Khorinis is "spared" by the orcs and otherwise spared.
But in Gothic4 does something happen again in Khorinis, although there is no official Gothic4 yet.
In Gothic4, Khorinis changes its cityscape: the structuring into lower quarter and upper quarter and other quarters, disappears. This is because Onar's descendants are giving up the large estate farm, releasing the simple farm workers into unemployment, converting the farm into a torture concentration camp hostel, and switching to factory farming or peat extraction.
Khorinis then becomes the cityscape: terraced house with a garden next to a high-rise prefabricated building.
In Gothic4, the Elder God abandons Khorinis, and settles in Nordmar, and then eventually ends up as "breeding cattle?!" in Myrthana or as THE "sovereign?!" of Myrthana, in any case as "Gewöhnlicher" of Myrthana.
The isle of Khorinis could have become a fast-travelling location in Gothic 3, but the scaling would be all off. It's only a tiny island compared with Myrtana, but if including everything that was available in Gothic 2, uh oh,...
Incorrect. What one single NPC from Khorinis is in Myrthana?
There isn't a single random character from Khorinis in Mythana.
you quote this video: "Gothic 2: The Movie - Symantax - 09/07/2021" or "returning mod"
AND this is what the remake will tell.
This is absolutely wrong.
The fact is: in Gothic3 nothing relevant happens in Khorinis.
Khorinis doesn't change.
Khorinis was not attacked.
Khorinis was neither destroyed nor conquered.
Because the paladins left Khorinis at the end of Gothic2, Khorinis falls completely into oblivion for Myrthana.
Khorinis was and is always meaningless to the orcs.
Why should Khorinis be of interest to the orcs?
In Gothic4 only the descendants of the "seekers" think about Khorinis again as "breeding cattle", but 99,99% of the population in Myrthana has forgotten about Khorinis.
The named NPCs that have been given a minor role or a cameo appearance: Thorus, Diego, Lee, Cor Angar, Lester, Gorn, Lares, Milten, and Xardas. Plus the water mages.
Gameplay tradeoffs are orthogonal to the continuation of the canon story-telling. Known paladins and named NPCs in general may have been defeated/killed. But most importantly, they are unimportant in Gothic 3's plot. Nothing is won by adding a couple of named NPCs from Gothic 2 as slaves or orc mercenaries only to emphasize that they have been brought there from the island. The isle of Khorinis is irrelevant in Gothic 3, since it is unreachable within the virtual world.
They have been there already during the second orc war, i.e. during the events the first two games are about.
It's a game not by the same developer company. And I believe the different devs could enjoy full freedom with how to continue their own story-telling.
That's an important difference. Jharkendar has a different fate than Khorinis. Valley of Mines has a different fate than Khorinis.
Valley of Mines and Jharkendar are separate "islands" of the story.
"Diego, Lee, Cor Angar, Lester, Gorn, Lares, Milten, and Xardas":
Are not from Khorinis either, but are the companions on the ship, and from the Valley of Mines or from Myrthana.
"Thorus, the water mages":
Are not from Khorinis either, but from Jharkendar.
In Gothic3's Mythana, there is no one from Khorinis in Myrthana. THIS IS THE POINT why there must be Gothic4 then.
FACT: The Orcs are spying in Gothic2, in Khorinis because that's where the Paladins are, but the Orcs don't care about Khornis.
The orcs only care about the paladins.
THAT'S THE POINT: The Orcs don't care about the Elder God.
Reminder: At the end of Gothic2, the paladins leave Khorinis, which means that the orc spies also disappear.
At the end of Gothic2, the people of Khornis managed to get rid of BOTH: the paladins and the orcs.
Thus, all NPCs in Gothic 2 are from Khorinis aka the isle of Khorinis.
"King Rhobar II operates the Khorinis mines."
The remake will 100% tell it like this:
King Rhobar II operates the mines IN, INSIDE, AT Khorinis. High fantasy gibberish without any point.
I read all the product descriptions again and watched the intros again:
G1 Intro:
Die Erzminen von Khorinis.
Khorinis war nun in den Händen der Gefangenen.
Strafkolonie von Khorinis.
In Gothic1 In-Game "Khorinis" is mentioned only once, namely by "NPC Mud", namely that "NPC Mud" is from Khorinis.
So, in the original German it is NOT:
because not:
- in Khorinis (in, inside)
- auf Khorinis (on)
- bei Khorinis (at)
but;
- von Khorinis (of)
FACT:
The Valley of Mines is not in-inside-at Khorinis.
The distance between "Vale of Mines" and "Khorinis" is 100 thousand kilometers, by sea and land.
Khorinis and Valley of Mines and Jharkendar are separate "islands" of the story.
Khorinis = exclusively only: port town and surrounding countryside of farms and monastery.
Reminder, in the original German it is:
The administrative and civil elite of the "Valley of Mines" left the "Valley of Mines" and emigrated to "Khorinis" and founded and built the city of "Khorinis" there, with the architecture: The administrative and civil elite of the "Valley of Mines" lives in the Upper Quarter. To protect them, the king of Myrthana stationed the "paladins" in the city.
The indigenous people of Khorinis have been colonized or disguise themselves according to the fashion of those who built the city here.
Now that the valley of mines is depopulated and deserted by nobles, so wasteland without noble ones, but has ore deposits, it was decided that this should be a prison colony.
So:
The Upper Quarter of Khorinis owns the Valley of Mines by inheritance, the judge, etc. manage the valley of mines.
Story:
The prisoners rebel.
This allows the prisoners to invade Khorinis to take revenge on the administrative and civil elite of the "Valley of Mines"
But thanks to the "nameless hero", the indigenous people of Khorinis manage to get rid of ALL:
- The administrative and civil elite of the "Valley of Mines"
- the paladins
- The prisoners and criminals of the kingdom of Myrthana
- the orcs
So in Gothic3 the indigenous people of Khorinis don't make a decision what they want to do with this:
- Architecture and cityscape according to the administrative and civil elite of the "Valley of Mines"
- imitation behavior and fashion of the people of Myrthana
in Gothic3: Khorinis stands completely still and ponders.
Gothic4 then has to narrate how the natives of Khorinis throw away this architecture and this imitation behavior in the garbage.
Because of only ONE person, namely the Elder God, the people of Myrthana choose all their architecture and fashion according to the indigenous people people of Khorinis.
THIS is the Gothic main story.
It is also important: The Orcs have won the Orc War: the Vale of Mines is Orc territory forever, and Myrthana is Orc territory far and wide too.
So whether Myrthana will keep an Elder God is entirely dependent on foreign countries, namely the "unknown lands"
The unknown countries are countries like USA, Russia, China, for which there is no metaphorical representation in Gothic, which is why a Gothic5 in Low Fantasy, is completely impossible, in addition to the fact that there is no more action in Mythana.
You know German? Do you accept German sources then?
--> https://almanach.worldofgothic.de/index.php/Khorinis_(Insel)
--> https://almanach.worldofgothic.de/index.php/Khorinis_(Stadt)
Full map:
--> https://worldofgothic.de/images/imgmanager/193.jpg
No. It is "Valley of Mines". The term valley implies that it s about three valleys on the isle of Khorinis, which are separated by huge mountains. From the valley around the city of Khorinis, it is a pass to the valley of mines. Jharkendar is another valley behind impassable mountains. It can only be reached on a ship/boat along the coast of the isle. Teleportation as a story-telling kludge and fast-travelling feature.
No. It is only an implementation detail that the isle of Khorinis is not a seamless open world, and therefore the gate before the pass to the Valley of Mines is where the accessible virtual world transitions from one area to the next one. As such, the travel duration is shortened, and player doesn't need to go up and down the full pass through the mountains.
Gothic 3 featured the superior game engine that made a seamless open world possible. Including more than one pass through the mountains from Myrtana to Nordmar and from Myrtana to Varant. While quite some players stick to Faring and cross the mountains there, exploring the mountains to Nordmar can be rewarding, since there are interesting areas and alternative ways into Nordmar.
"Worldofgohic" is a trolling network in Germany, these are creatures that don't understand "gothic" or l'art gothique.
This website can be trivially compared to the "Drachen Game", for example the Youtube channel: "Hank Loose", "Der heilige Ofenkäse", etc.
"Worldofgohic" considers it their sacred religious duty to do to former Gothic1 developers:
wiki/Doxing
wiki/Stalking
To do this, they spend 24/7 of their lifetime and being present in text chat on their discord or website.
REPETITION:
Deutschland heute is largely ork territory and some areas in Germany are completely total ork territory.
Note:
"Worldofgothic" is THE authority on the creators of "Gothic 1 Remake", but not for us fans and understander.
REPETITION:
I base my answer on the original product description and on the in-game facts.
According to the original product description and the in-game facts, the fact is:
- The distance between "Valley of Mines" and "Khorinis" is 100 thousands of kilometers, by sea and land.
- Khorinis and Valley of Mines and Jharkendar are separate "islands" of the story.
Nonsense and YOUR own interpretation out of nowhere, I've never read this anywhere.
For every German is:
"Valley of Mines" = Ruhrpott
Which means: leftover-remnant, appendage or literally: toilet
wiki/Pott
Reminder:
Gothic1 is full of Eurojank; "Pott" probably sounds too much like the English: Pitt (Pittsburgh)
"DAYS GONE" also does this in such a way that mountains and rivers limit the playing map.
This doesn't bother me at all in Fallout 3 and Fallout 4.
I also find the "barrier" to be an inferior game design, which only makes some people tend to misunderstand the story.
In Fallout 3 you also say:
the "Pitt" is 10 minutes away from the "Capital Wasteland"?? But it's 400 kilometers (250 miles)
If no, then you have to admit that this game design from Gothic1,2 is trash, and that of Fallout3,4 is superior because it simply avoided irritation.
SEE Video: All Piranha Bytes Games Ranked - Mortismal Gaming - 12.05.2023
Correct! Gothic3 is THE worst game of all time that I can (completely) remember playing or that I've played through.
I think Gothic3 is the product of GAMECOM and GAMESTAR, so to give GAMECOM and GAMESTAR a computer game that they can understand, that they are able to understand.
Through Youtube "HandofBlood" I understood Gothic3 for the very first time, finally in the year 2016. Since I played Gothic3 at release, I didn't understand Gothic3 for 10 years, except that this was NOTHING but suicide of the developer and publisher (Today you could also say: of the entire gaming industry in Germany).
It's really important for me to emphasize:
I do not acknowledge the geography and map from Gothic3 in any way.
Because 1:
Myrthana must be:
a wiki/Landlocked_country.
Because 2:
Myrthana must be:
like Gothic1,2 or Archolos or Legend of Ahssun, only 1 (up to a maximum of 3) town with surrounding area, and not billions of cities and no continent.
Because 3:
I played Gothic2 at the time of release and always understood this:
Ore from the Vale of Mines is transported directly to Mythana and Khorinis is an entirely external region where only the nobles reside who own the Vale of Mines.
But Gothic3 suggests, stimulate to think (but: does not explain does not define) that:
The ore from the valley of mines is transported by land to the port of Khorinis and then transported by ship to Myrthana.
Because 4:
"Nordmar" must be:
only mountain landscape and romantically hill country, not extraordinary spectacular, not a Himalayan mountain range.
Because 5:
"Varanth" should have been defined completely differently, or left out completely.
Fact:
Geographically, what Gothic3 suggests, makes no sense at all.
There is not a single point to defend Gothic3's geography as being logical, believable, meaningful, etc.
Listing all the lore problems of Gothic3's geography would be INFINITE.
The original handbook also explicitly mentions the "island of Khorinis", btw, which confirms that isle and city share the name.
Keep in mind that:
* The former doesn't rule out anything I've mentioned about the three valleys and the isle of Khorinis. Why? The huge mountains between the rural area around the city of Khorinis and the Valley of Mines are not part of the accessible virtual world. When the nameless hero arrives at the wooden gate to the pass, stepping through it is accompanied by fast-travelling over the mountains. It's similar with Jharkendar, except that there is no pass and no ship/boat travelling option, but just teleportation.
* The latter is your misconception of the term "separate islands". Once more, Gothic II does not feature a seamless open world like Gothic 3. Therefore, the Valley of Mines is implemented as an isolated "area" (and "map") with artificial boundaries (such as the wooden palisades the orcs have set up, and trying to glitch beyond them as to discover the easter eggs is not part of the intentional gameplay content).
The distance between the area around Khorinis and the Valley of Mines may be large, but "100 thousand kilometers" sounds excessive. The first game takes places in the same valley, but surrounded by the magical barrier, and it would take tremendous efforts to transport the ore to the harbor of Khorinis - whether by ship or by land, doesn't matter.
You are about to disqualify yourself. That's sad.
The German name of the valley is "Minental". The direct translation to English is "valley of mines". No localization, no German jargon either.
You go to:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Gothic II/Gothic2_Handbuch_GE
Or on the AMAZON website, you can read the paper back of the original packaging.
There it says:
Gothic1,2 takes place in the Middle Ages, where the king and the nobility are responsible for all political and economic life.
If the king wants to do something in the "valley of mines", he has to ship "Lord Hagen" to "Khorinis", because that's where the nobles are, the owners of the "mining colony". In the "valley of mines", the king has no more contacts according to the events of Gothic1.
In-game: "NPC Gomez" is dead, and only criminals are there.
There it says:
The StoryIsland of Khorinis is a place where farmers' food deliveries are stored and managed.
In-game: just behind the city gate next to the market, etc.
So it doesn't say:
The Valley of Mines is in-inside-within-on-at Khorinis.
So it doesn't say:
The map Valley of Mines is a 10 minute walk away from the map of ??? in-inside-within-on-at the same geographical Island, same as in Gothic3 over the mountains pass.
So it doesn't say:
Ore from the Valley of Mines passes through Khorinis. Ore from the valley of mines is stored in Khorinis or loaded for transport in Khorinis.
I understand Gothic1,2 like DAYS GONE, which metaphorically squeezes the US state of Oregon tightly.
G1 Sect camp = Berlin 1466
G1 Old camp = Dortmund 1466
G1 The coast next to the sect camp in Gothic1 = Lübeck 1466
G1 New camp = just Eurojank
G2 Khorinis = Memel und Memelland 1525
So Google Maps:
The distance between "Valley of Mines" and "Khorinis" is roughly between 1000 kilometers and 1500 kilometers or most likely 2000 kilometers.
Therefore it is logical,
that the chapter change in Gothic2 takes place during this big trip, and the atmosphere could change completely from chapter to chapter.
In addition:
From "Myrthana" to "Khorinis"and vice versa, it's a world tour:
400 kilometers by land to the nearest suitable port, and then VERY far by ship (10,000+ kilometers), and choosing the direct land route (1800 kilometers) is not possible.
Therefore it is only logical that the paladins NEVER talk about spontaneously returning to Myrthana.
In addition:
From "Mythana" to the "valley of mines" and vice versa, it is 700 to 800 kilometers, whereby, the entire land route is directly possible through native land in the kingdom of Mythana.
In addition:
The distance between Khorinis and Jharkendar is 300 kilometers direct land route and much shorter by ship or fishing boat.
In addition:
The distance between "Myrthana"and "Nordmar" is 250 kilometers direct land route, and there is no shorter route. (depending on how big you imagine "Mythana": 125 to 500 kilometers.)