This game is an ImSim and nobody talks about it

[czapla1024]

This might just be the most systemic open-world aRPG ever made(though KC:D might prove me wrong yet). It's not as open as could have been but it's already impressive and I suggested to zandr to add even more things to Update Pack, like ability to use Murder on sleeping targets or restrict NPC's weapon generation to make disarming guards through stealing more worthwhile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeWZzzEluJI
EDIT: Changed the title to avoid constant offtopics

[.:Jj:.]

It was super ambitious back in the day. If it could receive an extra 12-18 months to expand the features, optimize the engine and polish bugs- things would turn up differently.
Instead, it was released unfinished and unpolished and was crushed by Oblivion (baby's first RPG, and for console babies that is).

[czapla1024]

Originally posted by .:Jj:.:

It was super ambitious back in the day. If it could receive an extra 12-18 months to expand the features, optimize the engine and polish bugs- things would turn up differently.
Instead, it was released unfinished and unpolished and was crushed by Oblivion (baby's first RPGs, and for console babies that is).

I guess the failed release state will always cast shadow upon this game's reputation. Which is dumb, all of Bethesda's games are also dogwater without mod support.

[MetalFreak]

In addition I'd say the modding community kept Gothic 1 and even more Gothic 2 alive. Total conversions of the game or simply mods that add more weapons, armors, mod types or worlds to the main game

[grumpymoose]

There's a reason, with the upcoming remake in mind, that they renamed Gothic 1 to Gothic 1 Classic, and they renamed Gothic 2 to Gothic 2 Classic. Gothic 3 is still Gothic 3, and not Gothic 3 Classic. It doesn't really need explained why. It's not that there aren't people that like Gothic 3. There are, but I wager Gothic 3 is not what comes to mind when talking about Gothic for most Gothic fans - though the number who think of Gothic 3 when Gothic is mentioned is likely higher than those who think of Gothic 4: Arcania (now known as Arcania: a Gothic Tale) or Forsaken Gods.

In short: It's hard being Gothic 3 in a world where Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 exist. Personally, I'm just glad Gothic 3 isn't what came after Gothic 3.

[czapla1024]

Originally posted by grumpymoose:

Personally, I'm just glad Gothic 3 isn't what came after Gothic 3.

Is there a typo?

[grumpymoose]

Nope.

[Dajjer]

After they (?) fixed the game, it became a superior gaming experience. Gothic one was not a complete came to me. Gothic 2 fell apart in the last chapter. Gothic 3 was good all they way through. Please note however, Gothic 2 is probably my desert isle game. And all three games are in my top 5 RGPs (that are still playable) of all time.

[fracs]

Originally posted by Dajjer:

After they (?) fixed the game,

Modding Community

[Maho]

the combat is garbage compared to both previous games and when it came out it was more bug than game, hell even now with all improvements the combat still is a complete mess with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hitbox and complete lack of feedback when you actually land a hit, then with the "upgrade" of the graphics a lot of the ambiance that made G1 and 2 memorable was lost and a lot of things(weapons, monsters, armors) look dumb and dull in G3...
G3 has only two improvements over the previous games; size and music, everything else got a lot worse...but at least this aint Arcania or ELEX 2.

[czapla1024]

Originally posted by Maho:

hell even now with all improvements the combat still is a complete mess with ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hitbox and complete lack of feedback when you actually land a hit

From my experience hitboxes are actually quite tight, especially compared to Elex and some infamous Souls bosses; and 1-handed stabs are really useful precisely because of the stun they cause.

Originally posted by Maho:

G3 has only two improvements over the previous games; size and music, everything else got a lot worse...

Did you miss the point of this post? I love G1 and G2 (in fact, much more that G3) but even they don't have those powerful ImSim tools Gothic 3 got. G1 got inventory-based pickpocketing, Charm spell and Control spell but the first one only works on non-named NPCs, second one is only useful for extra EXP from Lares and last one is even more useless.

Also don't forget the improved archery and crafting. But that's offtopic and this thread has seen quite enough of it.

[chakkman]

It was a terribly broken game on release, and, even with 50 community patches, it's still terribly broken.

Risen 1 is the better Gothic 3. Streamlined, less ambitioned, and more suited for development by a team like Piranha Bytes back then. Better combat system, less buggy and broken, and overall a much rounder experience.

[czapla1024]

Alright, that's quite enough. Do you people even read the post before commenting on it? I hoped to have a discussion on specific aspect of the game but so far everyone is talking about the game's general supposed quality.

Is the title too ambiguous? If so, can anyone suggest a better one? For example "This game is an ImSim and nobody talks about it".

[chakkman]

Originally posted by czapla1024:

Is the title too ambiguous? If so, can anyone suggest a better one? For example "This game is an ImSim and nobody talks about it".

"Immersive sim" is a complete bogus term. As you, or the creator of the video has pointed out, even Gothic 3 could be seen as an immersive sim. It really says absolutely nothing about the kind of game you're playing.

But, hey, if you want to call it an immersive sim, be my guest. It's still a third party action fantasy RPG though.

I'm not criticizing you for using it, but, "immersive sim" is really a completely non-descriptive, non-telling designation, which we all should stop using, as it says sh** about the kind of game we call an immersive sim. EVERYTHING is an immersive sim, and nothing is an immersive sim.

I don't know which fool came up with that term.

[chakkman]

Thief, which supposedly started that whole immersive sim thing, was a stealth game in a medieval setting. Nothing more, nothing lese. Not an "immersive sim" thingie, which nobody really knows what it is.

[czapla1024]

Originally posted by chakkman:

As you, or the creator of the video

That's the same person kek

Originally posted by chakkman:

"immersive sim" is really a completely non-descriptive, non-telling designation, which we all should stop using, as it says sh** about the kind of game we call an immersive sim. EVERYTHING is an immersive sim, and nothing is an immersive sim.

ImSim is a type of game in which you can solve problems in ways unscripted and often unpredicted by the developers. Nothing more, nothing less. Is that possibly applicable to any type of game? Yes and that's a good thing! Rewarding a player for thinking outside the box is an aspect most genres could benefit from: stealth (Thief, Dishonored, Peripeteia), FPS (Prey, Postal 2), RPG (VTM Bloodlines, Deus Ex, Gothic 3), adventure (Zelda TotK)... kinda wandering what RTS could look like (I did make a stealth-based map for Stronghold 2 but it's very restrictive).

Originally posted by chakkman:

But, hey, if you want to call it an immersive sim, be my guest. It's still a third party action fantasy RPG though.

But do you think changing the title will keep people on track with the actual point of this thread? I'm done seeing the Gothic 3 bad, Gothic 3 good arguments under this post.