Comparing the size of G3 to Oblivion/TES

[Hippias Minor]

So, the rumor is that G3 is huge. I'm wondering, though, how it stacks up to those notoriously immersive TES games. In particular, I'm wondering how its size compares to the likes of Oblivion, with OOO installed. Really, there are (at least) *two* questions here:

1. How does the physical size of G3's world compare to Oblivion?

2. If you're doing a completionist run of each game (G3 on the one hand and Oblivion with OOO installed on the other), which is likely to take you longer?

(Some background: If I pursue my current plan--which might be a bit self-destructive when it comes to time management--I'd play both of these titles, but the comparative time investment will influence the order I play them in. And I confess that I have neurotically completionist tendencies.)

(Some further background: I unearthed a thread that suggests that G3's world is several times the size of Oblivion's, but that thread was from before G3's release, and I have a hard time taking it seriously.)

[rojimboo]

Originally posted by Hippias Minor:

So, the rumor is that G3 is huge. I'm wondering, though, how it stacks up to those notoriously immersive TES games. In particular, I'm wondering how its size compares to the likes of Oblivion, with OOO installed. Really, there are (at least) *two* questions here:

1. How does the physical size of G3's world compare to Oblivion?

2. If you're doing a completionist run of each game (G3 on the one hand and Oblivion with OOO installed on the other), which is likely to take you longer?

(Some background: If I pursue my current plan--which might be a bit self-destructive when it comes to time management--I'd play both of these titles, but the comparative time investment will influence the order I play them in. And I confess that I have neurotically completionist tendencies.)

(Some further background: I unearthed a thread that suggests that G3's world is several times the size of Oblivion's, but that thread was from before G3's release, and I have a hard time taking it seriously.)

G3 is defo bigger. Don't use any guides or anything, and just explore and wander around. Exploration is also rewarded, and tough battles are too. This game is about 26 times better than Oblivion TES, even with OOO installed (which made a mediocre game slightly better).

Use the latest community patch (under Steam beta) and set Alternative AI on and Alternative Balancing on. Then Medium difficulty, or if you really want to punish yourself, Hard.

After that, just let yourself immerse in the absolutely stunning handcrafted (! big plus from TES games) landscape, that varies immensely from environment to the next, accompanied by a godly soundtrack.

Beginner's tip: If something is overwhelmingly difficult in the beginning, come back to it later. You don't (!) have to liberate cities after the first opening fight (where you cannot even die). Just do sidequests everywhere you can until you are ready to make your choice in the world.

[Hippias Minor]

Thanks much, rojimboo. I've done a bit more digging, using the following two sources:

--howlongtobeat.com
--an interesting discussion thread: http://forum.nordicgames.at/threads/129461-Gothic3-vs-NWN2-vs-Oblivion-vs-Two-Worlds%21

There seem to be several things to pull from these sources.

With respect to my *second* question, it looks like a completionist approach to Oblivion will take longer than a completionist approach to G3. (That's probably especially true when OOO is involved, which slows down character progression.)

With respect to my *first* question, it's a bit less clear. It looks like, with the overworld map, G3 is both more varied (e.g., with respect to verticality) and more densely populated, which would make its landmass *seem* bigger. It looks like Oblivion was designed with horse travel in mind, which required them to make the terrain easier to traverse, with fewer mobs along the way.

On the other hand, Oblivion apparently has more dungeons, which tend to be bigger than many that G3 offers--so when it comes to *total* area, Oblivion would be bigger.

The folks on that thread I mentioned above seemed to agree with you, rojimboo, about the relative quality of the two games. But there was a very interesting post on page 10 of that thread that cut sharply the other way.

Of course, everything I've said here is just guesswork on the basis of those two sources, so I'd be happy to be educated/corrected by experienced gamers!

As things stand, it looks to me like G3 has the less intensive time commitment, and so would probably be dealt with first--before Oblivion.

[GAME GOD FLUENT]

I'm 40 hours deep in G3 and have played at least 300 hours of Oblivion (300 hours in just one run at one point!), so here's my take on it.

Gothic 3's world is my preference. The terrain design is more painstakingly detailed with a high attention to detail. There are rare herbs to find everywhere, which are important, rather than just randomly placed plants that don't amount to much. The graphics are very detailed with some of the widest variety of foliage in any RPG I have ever seen (if not number 1 on that list.) You'll see all sorts of unique ground cover, plants, trees, and so on.

But the design ideas behind the 2 games are vastly different, too.

In Oblivion, the idea is go anywhere on the map at any time. You really will never be in much danger and the difficulty remains level the entire way. In Gothic 3, you will die in certain spots of the map because you aren't skilled enough to go there and handle the enemies. But the amount of you can explore at once in G3 is also phenomenally huge. It seems to me that it's way, way bigger than Oblivion overall. The map is kind of staggeringly huge.

Next part of the philosophy that's different is that G3 rewards your exploration in order to develop your character more. Oblivion is more about hearing quirky stories in the quests, whereas G3's design makes the resources you gain much more important (I'm playing on Hard/AB/AAI) and emphasizes that aspect over story. Things like deciding which skills to invest in, which items to buy and so on will make a huge difference. In Oblivion, resources and leveling up are not nearly as important, thus the world feels more like just a theme park to run around in rather than an impacting world to explore, with danger around every corner.

Both are great RPGs that I like a lot. But G3 just has my preferred style of world to explore. You also have to consider dungeons, while Oblivion has a ton of them, G3 is not really about them as much. You will find caves, mines and a few different things here and there, and there are definitely way more of those in G3 than previous Gothic games, but the emphasis is mostly on overworld exploration, I'd say.

G3 has more impacting character development, better designed terrain, is larger, more gameplay-oriented (complex faction reputation system), has many more settlements to find (cities/villages/camps/etc.) and focuses more on traditional RPG elements of leveling up and developing the character with skills. Oblivion is better if you want stories.

I would say that about sums it up for me, personally.

[Hippias Minor]

Thanks much, Fluent!

Quick question: are you playing Oblivion with OOO installed? I'm wondering if the claim about "go anywhere at any time" and the constant difficulty is more about the vanilla version.

[GAME GOD FLUENT]

Originally posted by Hippias Minor:

Thanks much, Fluent!

Quick question: are you playing Oblivion with OOO installed? I'm wondering if the claim about "go anywhere at any time" and the constant difficulty is more about the vanilla version.

I played quite a bit of OOO and enjoyed it a lot. It definitely removes a lot of level-scaling and gives the world a more static, Gothic-style of exploration. I still don't think it's all that close to Gothic 3, but it's improved.

I'd also highly recommend Nehrim/Enderal overhauls for Oblivion/Skyrim respectively. Those completely overhaul the game and the end result is closer to Gothic-style.

[Hippias Minor]

Excellent--thanks much. I'll have to check out those conversion mods one of these days--time permitting!

[GAME GOD FLUENT]

In terms of the overhauls, Nehrim and Enderal should be way ahead of OOO in your order, IMO. Nehrim/Enderal are literally 2 of the greatest RPGs in that style, let alone the fact they are essentially grand mods, they are more interesting than most "real" RPGs that get released.

OOO is worth a look, though, for sure. And Gothic 3 really stands on its own as well, as even Nehrim/Enderal make the games more Gothic-esque, G3 really has the strength of the core design.