How to complete the game in 2021

[Kartevoll]

I made a longer video on how to beat the game if anyone is interested. It will hopefully help someone that needs to complete it and especially to get the 4k floor achievement. It basically uses Hellish ritual instead of farming sins as it is way more efficient (the video explains how and why).

I should mention that you have to be prepared to spend some (A LOT) of time since Azathot was nerfed years ago.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-4m-cmuSXY&ab_channel=Mlem

If you have any questions, leave a comment in the video or here, and I will answer it to with my best knowledge :)

PS: I'm also working on a video on how to get all the achievements (in steam and in game) to help completionists that are going insane not being able to complete it. This upcoming video will describe how to beat every achievement, including the PvP achievements, in detail so stay tuned.

-MLEM

[󠁳⁧⁧hayleyhatesyou]

Love the fact you did a video for this. But it was almost too summarized. The parts I didn't understand had almost no explanation.

[Kartevoll]

What was it you didn't understand?:)

[󠁳⁧⁧hayleyhatesyou]

Ok question. with illnesses. you mentioned a process of first farming sins and using them for illnesses which you need for late game. You said around 800-3000 for each i believe. Currently I have max level on every illness that can be maxed. my others being
Fetishism 50
Sadism 100
Ludomania 354
Oniomania 60
Thanatophobia 125
Obsession 70
Bipolar disorder 90
Kleptomania 70

I've used amnesia 116 times. I can reach Orezan in about 15 minutes. two amnesias ago I reached Nancy with idling for i'd say 24 hours.

Do I need to put more into my illnesses to make it further? I feel like that will set me back so much with current damage from sins. and I currently have 1.886K sins

[Kartevoll]

First of all, you dont need any more invested in Thanathophobia (i dont even have that much invested in it!), it is soo expensive, and does not do that much, progression wise.

Second of all: DONT invest more in ludomania! This does NOT increase your teeth gain!!
Fethishism increases your teeth gain when you use broken jaw, and oniomania increase your chest teeth gain.

The best way to push for higher floors is to use skill 1,2,3,8,7 to maximize crit damage, that way you can go sooo much farther than you can with idle damage. That said as I mentioned in my video: the only thing you should be doing in the mid-game, where you are now, is to farm A LOT of sins. You should use the strategy I talk about when I talk about optimizing sins farm. If you are able to get to Orezan in 15 minutes see how much sins you are able to get from that. If you are not able to get at least that amount (1000 first 15 mins and another 1000 sinse the next 15 mins) in the next 15 minutes you should just push to were you are slowing down and use amnesia over and over again:p

I mentioned these numbers related to sins and illnesses before pushing for the lategame:
1e6 (which is 1000K) sins
and around 800-1000 lvls (hopefully I didnt say 3k in the video) in the click damage, crit damage, fetishism and ludomania since these are the only illnesses you need for the lategame.

However, it should be mentioned that I had obsession in lvl 600+ and kleptomania in lvl 300 so I did invest

Related to if you need to put more into your illnesses:

If you are going to double your (idle) damage output of obsession you would need to get it to lvl 140 (which would cost you around 7500 sins). To double your damage output from your sins alone you would have to get 1886 sins more. So it is better to farm sins here if that makes sense?

Summary:
1, dont invest more in Thanatophobia and Ludomania for the rest of the game!
2. Spread your sins if they increase your damage more by using the example above.
3. Farm, farm, and farm more sins until you get the numbers above, and then use the Hellish ritual combination as I mentioned in my video:)

Hope this helps!

[Kartevoll]

And if i read your sins wrong and you have 1.887e5 you should invest some of them:p

[Kartevoll]

Btw if you are looking for a simple strategy that does not require a lot of thinking go for what the white russians guide suggests:
Spend around 20-30% of the sins you get snd keep the rest:) Do this until you get to the numbers above:)

[󠁳⁧⁧hayleyhatesyou]

Originally posted by MLEM:

Btw if you are looking for a simple strategy that does not require a lot of thinking go for what the white russians guide suggests:
Spend around 20-30% of the sins you get snd keep the rest:) Do this until you get to the numbers above:)

Maybe I should break down the video to where parts got confusing also.

But to start, I swear I did read that guide when I first started playing, and yes it did say only spend 20-30% of your sins. but it was mentioned to max the ones you can max, and specific numbers for each illness. Which is why illnesses are where they are (I know I personally decided after to put more into crit though)

I'm able to 11k sins each amnesia in 15-20 minutes, which is around floor 1,100. Thats when it actually slows down.

So the video.
Intro. Alright I'm actually changing my opinion with the intro. I watched the video 5 times yesterday. But listening to it today I finally caught you start with "The community said it was impossible and the devs have quit" The sentence started so fast I didn't hear "the community". I thought you were saying the devs did give up. So anything I had to say about that doesn't matter
You mention 4 points to be prepared for in the game. Great points, but number 4 has me confused "The best minion will stay nerfed" and you mentioned it was because of point 3 "Developers have left the game." I don't understand why the best minion is nerfed, or who is the best minion, or why the devs leaving nerfed a minion.

Early Game
Mentioning and showing the guide by White Russian was great so you did not have to explain all those details. Maybe you should also put the link for it in the video description.
Explanation of Chest was the biggest and most helpful part of the video, at least for me. 2,000 hours on this game, no guides (In English at least) mentioned that. This is an actual game changer, thank you.

Mid Game
Farming sins. So if I'm understanding correctly, in 30 minutes if you can reach floor 1000 with 9k or more sins, you should push, if you can't then use amnesia. "next 30 minutes push" I don't understand. Do you just push an extra 30 minutes ontop of the 30 minutes you jut did? Also after that 30 minutes (total 60 minutes at this point) then what? But also in another part of the video you say before you go for the final push grind make sure you do damage related achievements, such as amnesia 250 times. I have not used amnesia 250 times, but I can reach floor 1000 9k+ sins in 30 minutes. Which confuses me on if I should amnesia or push.
Order of skills. I thought Lens of darkess was proven to not effect Hellish ritual.
Broken Jaw > Mad hatters clock > Broken Jaw is really good. Teeth knocker should be used due to the fact we are not killing the chest, makes sense. But what if he is going to die?
The verbal explanation on both types of damage was good. But the written examples aren't too easy to follow in my opinion.
Minion upgrades on your most used minion. I can't recall how you get them in the first place. So are you supposed to actually have all the upgrades on 1 minion? They got put on random minions for me. How many sins should be used to put them on one minion? When is it not worth it, when is it? Some explanation on that would have been nice.
Main damage. Jester, yeah awesome. Get Orezan. etc
Illnesses, your game does show yours being at level 3000 or above. You did say you need 800-1000. Did you finish all the achievements with 800-1000, or 3000?

Late Game
Was already brought up. Lens of darkess was proven to not effect Hellish ritual.
Fastest possible floor 1000/2000. Again verbally it made sense for the start but the examples and anything else just.. I have no idea what was even being explained with text.

Anything after this point seems to be parts that should have been mentioned earlier in the video.

[Kartevoll]

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

I'm able to 11k sins each amnesia in 15-20 minutes, which is around floor 1,100. Thats when it actually slows down.

Then you should probably use amnesia when you reach that point. I was farming on 10-15k sins a lot, so it makes sense.

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

You mention 4 points to be prepared for in the game. Great points, but number 4 has me confused "The best minion will stay nerfed" and you mentioned it was because of point 3 "Developers have left the game." I don't understand why the best minion is nerfed, or who is the best minion, or why the devs leaving nerfed a minion.

So as I mention in the video the last minion you can hire, Azathot, had 1e212 damage before he was nerfed, and 1e149 after. The reason I'm saying that the developers have left the game is because it is so imbalanced after they nerfed Azathot, since in the lategame you can only rely on him. Also the developers does not care about people that are unable to get the PvP achievements since there are so few players left.

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

:ListRing:Mentioning and showing the guide by White Russian was great so you did not have to explain all those details. Maybe you should also put the link for it in the video description.

I think I have put the link to the White Russians guide in the video description at the bottom:)

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

:ListRing: Farming sins. So if I'm understanding correctly, in 30 minutes if you can reach floor 1000 with 9k or more sins, you should push, if you can't then use amnesia. "next 30 minutes push" I don't understand. Do you just push an extra 30 minutes ontop of the 30 minutes you jut did? Also after that 30 minutes (total 60 minutes at this point) then what? But also in another part of the video you say before you go for the final push grind make sure you do damage related achievements, such as amnesia 250 times. I have not used amnesia 250 times, but I can reach floor 1000 9k+ sins in 30 minutes. Which confuses me on if I should amnesia or push.

So the floor 1000 9k sins example merely illustrates how far you should push, but you could more easily just use amnesia when your monster killing slows down. The example with 1000 9k was to try to illustrate how to optimize the sins farming my using numbers instead of basing when to use amnesia on "when your monster killing slows down" which is not exactly optimized in any way.

Let me try to explain it in another way:
The first 30 minutes of a run you are able to get 9k sins, the next 30 minutes of the run you are able to 6k sins. Using the last 30 minutes to get 6k sins doesn't make sense since you could just use amnesia and get 9k+9k sins instead of 9k+6k.
If you are able to get 9k or more on the last 30 minutes, you could just do the same for the next 30 minutes. Say you get 9k on the first 30 minutes, 16k on the next 30 minutes, and then 10k on next 30 minutes after that you should use amnesia after approximatly 60 minutes since it will account for more sins in the long run (not only because of the pure sins, but because of the fact that you are able to farm a little faster the next time).

If you have trouble understanding the examples above, just use 20-30% of the sins you receive to upgrade illnesses and save the rest until you get the numbers I mention in the video.

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

:ListRing: I thought Lens of darkess was proven to not effect Hellish ritual.

You can easily check this by yourself. Take the damage you have right now and use lens+hellish and you can see that it increases your damage by 10%. I don't know who proved that it did not have a effect on hellish ritual, but they were wrong!
Please check for yourself and you will see. Say your damage is 1e10 and you use lens+hellish your damage should now be 1.1e10, and if you only use hellish than it would be 1.05e10. Use the formula here to check:
"your damage" * 1.1 = should be the dps you get when using lens + hellish
"your damage" * 1.05 = should be the dps you get when using only hellish

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

Broken Jaw > Mad hatters clock > Broken Jaw is really good. Teeth knocker should be used due to the fact we are not killing the chest, makes sense. But what if he is going to die?

Since you have such a high level in Ludomania killing the chest when you have broken jaw active is nearly impossible. If the chest dies when it isnt active and you have teeth knocker active then yes it will give you 100% additional teeth. That said, remember that if you use a skill you lose your idle state.

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

:ListRing: The verbal explanation on both types of damage was good. But the written examples aren't too easy to follow in my opinion.

The point of showing the calculations might not, as you say, be as easy to understand, but they were not suppose to be either, and that is why they are shown so quickly. The point I was making was that additive damage sucks compared to multiplicative damage, and that is why you should use the hellish ritual strategy in the lategame, when you are not able to farm sins fast enough to compensate for it being additive, if that makes sense?

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

:ListRing: Minion upgrades on your most used minion. I can't recall how you get them in the first place. So are you supposed to actually have all the upgrades on 1 minion? They got put on random minions for me. How many sins should be used to put them on one minion? When is it not worth it, when is it? Some explanation on that would have been nice.

In the early and mid game you should be careful to switch them from one to another if you dont have the sins for it. I primarily had all my minion enhancements in one minion, but gradually transition from one to another when I switched (I left enhancements I needed to reach the other minion fast). Minion enhancement damage is also additive so it easy to check when you should invest in moving them. They way to check can be done with a simple example: say you have 2 ME(minion enhancements) in jesters chest and you have 640 sins. Try to find out if its beneficial to double the ME so in this case use 160 sins to double your damage from that minion. Since 160 is only 25% of 640 your overall damage will be increased.
You can also try to invest in ME in the minion you are using most to see if your DPS is increasing. If it increased it was beneficial.

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

:ListRing: Illnesses, your game does show yours being at level 3000 or above. You did say you need 800-1000. Did you finish all the achievements with 800-1000, or 3000?

I had approximatly between 800-1000 on fetishism, sadism, oniomania, and bipolar disorder before I started using the late game strategy (in addition to 1e6 sins).
When I reached floor 4000 the illnesses mentioned above was around 3000 (after investing the sins I got from "Instant Ascension")

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

:ListRing:Was already brought up. Lens of darkess was proven to not effect Hellish ritual.

Again this is easy to test! Dont alwasy rely on information from others, when things are easy to test by yourself!

Originally posted by hayleyhatesyou:

:ListRing:Fastest possible floor 1000/2000. Again verbally it made sense for the start but the examples and anything else just.. I have no idea what was even being explained with text.

Anything after this point seems to be parts that should have been mentioned earlier in the video.

The point I am making is that Lens + Hellish ritual is better than farming for sins when you reach the numbers I have mentioned here and in the video.

The strategies in the lategame section is merely to demonstrate how to actually do it, but they can be applied to mid game and early game as well (speaking of skill combination).

[Mad Hatter]

Just out of curiosity, what is the max level that you can reach for this game, as in after you reach this level, you can’t progress any further in the game. I heard that it is level 4750, but I am not fully certain if it is. Is that number correct?

[Kartevoll]

Originally posted by Mad Hatter:

Just out of curiosity, what is the max level that you can reach for this game, as in after you reach this level, you can’t progress any further in the game. I heard that it is level 4750, but I am not fully certain if it is. Is that number correct?

The max floor (lvl) you can reach, as far as I know, is 4725, but the steam achievements only have achievements up to floor 4000. So it's up to you whether or not you want to torture yourself through the last floors:p