Tokugawa clan and Uesugi clan are still existed nowadays

[Maxi]

Tokugawa Tsunenari (born:1940) is the current 18th head of Tokugawa clan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_Tsunenari

Uesugi Kuninori (born:1943) is still live and carry the Uesugi name. He is the 32th generation of Uesugi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uesugi_clan

[Pippin123]

Well of course, any clan that survived until the Tokugawa shogunate has no reason to have been wiped off. They weren't all put to death at the Meiji restoration. :)

It's like saying there's still families descended from noble households in Europe.

[Steppin' Razor]

Lol... yea dude... there's alot of those clans that still exist today... this aint news...

[Maxi]

Originally posted by Steppin' Razor:

Lol... yea dude... there's alot of those clans that still exist today... this aint news...

I'm surprised to see these... I thought they were all extint.
What about the Oda, Shimazu and Mori?

I see many Tachibana girls in porn industry lol :D

[Oðinn]

Originally posted by Maxi:

What about the Oda, Shimazu and Mori?

There is a successful figure skater named Oda Nobunari, who is a direct decendant of Nobunaga.
Also the current head of the Shimazu is Shimazu Nobuhisa (he is the head since 1996).
Don't know about the Mori, but I would imagine that they are still around.

[Maxi]

Originally posted by Vlad Tepes:

Originally posted by Maxi:

What about the Oda, Shimazu and Mori?

There is a successful figure skater named Oda Nobunari, who is a direct decendant of Nobunaga.
Also the current head of the Shimazu is Shimazu Nobuhisa (he is the head since 1996).
Don't know about the Mori, but I would imagine that they are still around.

Oh thanks Vlad, I will google them.

[salatrin]

Originally posted by Vlad Tepes:

Originally posted by Maxi:

What about the Oda, Shimazu and Mori?

There is a successful figure skater named Oda Nobunari, who is a direct decendant of Nobunaga.
Also the current head of the Shimazu is Shimazu Nobuhisa (he is the head since 1996).
Don't know about the Mori, but I would imagine that they are still around.

Descendant of the Mori is actually part of the group that led the Meiji restoration and restored the emperor to power from the Toku Shogunate, Also i dont know for sure or not but i also heard that descendants from Chosokabe and from the Shimazu were also part of that group.

Oddly enough, those also happen to be the 3 main families from the sengoku period that held on to major grudge against the Toku shogunate right from when it began cuz of Toku basically stripping their families after Sekigahara for siding with the West.

[Pippin123]

Well, there's nothing really odd about that.

After Sekigahara, the Tokugawa shogunate split the daymyos into two groups :
the Fudai daimyos vs. Tozama Daimyos, with this distinction being hereditary.

Fudai were the one that were always loyal to Ideyasu while Tozama were the clans that became vassals after sekigahara.

The lands where redistributed with the rich domains going to Fudai, while the Tozamas were given smaller domain, farther from the capital : eg. the Mori clan, despite not having actively participated against Ideyasu (the Mori considered Mitsunari an upstart and resented him taking command of the "Toyotomi Loyalists") was reduced from 5 provinces to 2..

So all the Tozama clans had a vested interest in taking down the shogunate.

[Maxi]

Originally posted by Pippin123:

Well, there's nothing really odd about that.

After Sekigahara, the Tokugawa shogunate split the daymyos into two groups :
the Fudai daimyos vs. Tozama Daimyos, with this distinction being hereditary.

Fudai were the one that were always loyal to Ideyasu while Tozama were the clans that became vassals after sekigahara.

The lands where redistributed with the rich domains going to Fudai, while the Tozamas were given smaller domain, farther from the capital : eg. the Mori clan, despite not having actively participated against Ideyasu (the Mori considered Mitsunari an upstart and resented him taking command of the "Toyotomi Loyalists") was reduced from 5 provinces to 2..

So all the Tozama clans had a vested interest in taking down the shogunate.

Finally, the Shimazu and Mori joined hand and crush the Tokugawa 250 years later. End the Shogun era and restore the Imperial era back.

[Ontos]

One of the clan heads of Hosokawa was a prime minister of Japan in the 1980s.

[salatrin]

Originally posted by Pippin123:

Well, there's nothing really odd about that.

After Sekigahara, the Tokugawa shogunate split the daymyos into two groups :
the Fudai daimyos vs. Tozama Daimyos, with this distinction being hereditary.

Fudai were the one that were always loyal to Ideyasu while Tozama were the clans that became vassals after sekigahara.

The lands where redistributed with the rich domains going to Fudai, while the Tozamas were given smaller domain, farther from the capital : eg. the Mori clan, despite not having actively participated against Ideyasu (the Mori considered Mitsunari an upstart and resented him taking command of the "Toyotomi Loyalists") was reduced from 5 provinces to 2..

So all the Tozama clans had a vested interest in taking down the shogunate.

Ya the Mori lost about 3/4 of their total wealth and moved all the way up to the sticks, though personally i think Mori should of been treated better after cuz him NOT showing up at Sekigahara might have very well saved Toku's butt as Mori was very powerful even that late in the war and there was a reason why he was chosen to be the at the top of list to command the west.

This is probably a stretch, but Mori showing up might have even prevented alot of the generals from turning since Terumoto and Kingo were related due to Kingo being adopted by Takakage.

[Pippin123]

We'll never know, the what if are endless when you look back (e.g. what if if had been a sunny day and Oda had been spotted and killed at Okehazama ?)

By most accounts Mitsunari was not liked , even by his fellows loyalists : he was viewed as an "upstart" administrator with limited combat experience that had no business leading this kind of alliance, had humilated some powerful figures during the Invasion of Korea and ordered the botched hostage taking that resulted in Gracia Akechi death while Ideyasu was the last remnant of the "Old Guard", and had been busy for years making secret pacts and building his power base.

What I mean is that Mori staying out of it and happy to be a figurehead with limited involment reflected the political realties of the time.

A bit off topic, but if you're into boardgame, there's a good one about Sekigahara ("Sekihagara : Unification of Japan"[boardgamegeek.com]) where one of the options for the Ishida side is to spend a lot of "political power" to get the Mori to move their asses.
it's very good at modeling the conflicting loyalties of the time (or lack thereof).

[Tyronis2054]

Originally posted by Pippin123:

We'll never know, the what if are endless when you look back (e.g. what if if had been a sunny day and Oda had been spotted and killed at Okehazama ?)

Actually you can in the game at least, haha.... Since if you start at 1534 and play at Hard or Extreme Difficulties and you're not Oda... There's a good chance they'll be wiped out before 1551 comes around..

Which seeing all the references to the aftermath of Sekigehara and all, kind of makes me disappointed that the game didn't really explore that either... Cause essentially after Sekigehara in the game, that's it... you still have to conquer Japan like any other scenario, heh.

[waTTe]

Anyone knows or can search it better than me (lack of more than rudimentary japanese) if theres some actual tradition or structure from Takeda surviving till today?
One guy somewhat close to main line seems to have survived the downfall and served the Tokugawa as ... well If I remember right somekind of tea-ceremony master, same as one Imagawa did.
Then there is the Takeda ?sword?-school which seems to have survived through a minor line and is still present.
Anything else or something "official"?

[Pippin123]

Don't know about sword schools (are you thinking about the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu ? That's the oldest surviving school , but they were never affiliated with any clan).

Talking about Takeda, if you ever go to Japan, a trip to Karasu-jo[en.wikipedia.org] the " Castle of the Crow" in Matsumoto (Takeda territory) is well worth it, since it's one of the better preserved sengoku castles

[waTTe]

Thanks. but I was aware of what you posted and I didnt think about it (despite you meant it in a very general way) and meant what I wrote:

Any taditionalized remains of the Takeda, like this I mentioned above:
Takeda Ryu Nakamura Ha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeda_Ryu_Nakamura_Ha

And yes, that castle is a great place!