Stop saying it's "the best"!

[Michael]

Look, I'm not saying this to start a flame war. I like the game. Really, I do. I've always been a huge fan of the Final Fantasy series growing up. But I honestly think that way too many people are remembering FF7 through [wild] rose-colored glasses.

It was a good game in its own right, but even when I was a kid the writing seemed a little childish compared to both earlier and later FF titles. The materia system was by far the best thing it had going for it, which unfortunately isn't enough by itself to label good ol' #7 as "the best."

A lot of the dialogue - even after receiving a translation overhaul - makes me cringe when compared to the writing of say...FF4, FF8, or FF10. I own 1-14, plus most of the spin-offs and several remakes, and those three remain my favorite to this day. By contrast, in many ways it feels like FF7 was written by a homophobic teenager who would have been better off co-authoring "Wanted" with Mark Miller.

Okay, so maybe the Mark Miller comparison is a bit extreme. Few works are that terrible.

I maintain the opinion however, that the writing behind FF7 is immature, shallow, and extremely convoluted when compared to other FF titles. I think many folks are simply remembering it as being epicly awesome because when we were kids, it WAS awesome. Sort of like how Ninja Turtles was the best thing ever when you were little, but if you try to watch the 80's cartoon now, you crap yourself from embarrassment.

Now, if you'll notice, not once did I mention graphics. As a major JRPG fan, graphics mean very little to me. As long as the story is immersive and the leveling system is compelling, then you've got my dollar. That being said though, the chibi-factor doesn't help the immaturity vibe any. I almost would have preferred to play this with SNES graphics, rather than watching the painfully forced drama being acted out by Precious Moments figurines. (I especially love the "new and improved" version with the mouths plastered on in unflattering ways.)

Anyway, I realize it's not always about maturity. It's a game. Games are supposed to be entertaining. And you would be right - FF7 IS an entertaining title. On the whole, it IS good. I personally just don't feel it's the hands-down-best-of-the-best-love-it-or-die-you-troll of the entire series, and I don't quite understand why so many people - the majority supposedly - do feel that way.

Your thoughts? (Do keep it civil.)

[Grizzledorf]

too long of a read for me but i assume its the basicly gonna say something along the lines about no idea why this game is held as the best game also that its basically the second coming of jesus in video game terms.


its a good solid game but ya i dont get the reason everyone says best but we are all entitled to opinions so to some its the best others its not. myself i had more enjoyment from the lufia series on snes then this game(and compared to most FF games)

personally i believe the main reason its said to be the best because of nostoliac memories of playing it as a kid mixed with the fact that many people just claim its best cause all their friends say it is.

for me personally FF3 was one of the more fun final fantasies one of my favorite character was the dude you had to press button combinations to do certain moves. could even experiment and hit different order of buttons to learn new ones.


but like i said before its all about opinion so no biggy what people like or dislike or who in their opinion think this is the best of the best

[Improper Use]

where is the homophobe?

the game was* written for kids. most games are.

back when it was released the graphics were crap and many people simply pulled story from the fmv and skimmed words. Hell, thats why many people played through any game, for 5 seconds of FMV.

the game was written for kids.

Bugenhagen, saving fort condor, cait sith, sephiroth, shinra mansion music, and aeris are all enveloped in basic story archetypes.
The master race (very forgetful) villan
grandpa
your talking dog with coming of age and misplaced belief in the noble father.
oh so many cliches and tropes

what adult would feel any real connection with cait sith? hell barrett does my head in, lets not get into the sexpot, the nice girl, and the chainsmoking wreck.

our redoubtable hero is a mass murdering identity confused teen who has major dissassociative and cognative issues

the game was written for kids.

But! there are many references to adult issues and events as well, but they can easily be seen as subtext. Many monsters are redolant of sexualised imagry, adult content, or addictions/issues.
Tifa is a scantily dressed handbag to the biker cloud whos only recourse in a fight is to melee..
So much Motorcycle/Biker/gang imagry throughout midgar and its environs.
A completely railroaded plot thats pushes expressive tunnel vision onto our heros and never touches the thousands of dead corpses in their wake.
and it can go on and on

edited: added 'mass murdering'

[Grizzledorf]

hey bubby you want to join my club?

[Kartoffelsuppe]

I didn't expect much when I first played this because it is really old but what people claim is just plain wrong. I'm talking from a distant perspective, no nostalgia involved, because I was an adult when I played this.

Basically to sum it all up, the main plotline is really bad, it was kind of ok when they faced shinra but then everyone got killed & all of a sudden sephiroth is the main villain & it got even more worse when I found out about cloud imagining everything...

I don't understand the outcrys of making a remake of this game either, everything is so outdated in this game & sinking a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of cash into this to make it more modern is a big waste of money because the plot is not worth getting into it in the first place.

Well, thats about it, feel free to debate about what I said or whatever.

[Kaldarasha]

FF7 isn't the best written game. For example I don't understand why a first class soldier should masquerade as an ordinary MP. I mean Cloud wears all the time a Shin-Ra uniform. But the one of the few games which has a story you should think about. There is a lot of interpretation. Is Sephiroth the true evil? Is science ever ending bad things? Can a company really have such a power? From this point of view there aren't many games, which try to tell you more as only a story.

[☩Sparrow421]

Originally posted by Improper Use:

back when it was released the graphics were crap

I seriously hope you arent talking about the ps1 release? This was released with the ps1 and was seen as a graphical masterpiece.

I dont see how people dont see this is a great game. The story was amazing and had nice dark elements like most final fantasy games had. It didnt get boring because there was just so much to do. The only game that i would consider better than this in the ff series is tactics.

and this is a HELL of alot better than the final fanatsy's they are releasing now.

[Michael]

Originally posted by ForsakenFire:

Originally posted by Improper Use:

back when it was released the graphics were crap

I seriously hope you arent talking about the ps1 release? This was released with the ps1 and was seen as a graphical masterpiece.

I dont see how people dont see this is a great game. The story was amazing and had nice dark elements like most final fantasy games had. It didnt get boring because there was just so much to do. The only game that i would consider better than this in the ff series is tactics.

and this is a HELL of alot better than the final fanatsy's they are releasing now.

Actually, that's not true at all. When FF7 was first in development, it was originally planned to be released for the SNES, and was later pushed back for the N64 - neither of which ultimately happened. THAT'S why the graphics look like crap, and why FF8 and FF9 - both PS1 titles - looked far superior.

As for the story being "amazing," we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Everyone has their likes and dislikes, but personally I found it to be "meh...been there, seen that," and yet somehow it manages to come off as completely convoluted at the same time. And as I mentioned before, the dialogue is just plain childish.

There are lots of games out there that have "so much to do." This is true for games both past and present. FF7 was in no way a pioneer in that regard, either.

Like I said, it's "good." It's just not "the best."

[☩Sparrow421]

Well you are entitled to your opinion.

[Griever]

I enjoyed FF7, but I do remember being a little let down with it because it wasn't as good as FF6 imho. Also, I think that I had unrealistic expectations of it.

[Kartoffelsuppe]

Originally posted by ForsakenFire:

I dont see how people dont see this is a great game. The story was amazing and had nice dark elements like most final fantasy games had. It didnt get boring because there was just so much to do. The only game that i would consider better than this in the ff series is tactics.

and this is a HELL of alot better than the final fanatsy's they are releasing now.

The problem is that the story leaves much to be desired, as good as the music, some of the environments look, some characters are, it doesn't compensate enough.

Sephirtoh feels more like a plot device than a real character, just like aizen in bleach. Many people bring up that kefka was a better villain & from what I have seen, he actually is because he has a distinct personality & more screentime, what makes him more important. Also his motives are more clear & make sense.

Sephirtoh is this half alien thing & everyone thought he was dead, but he was still alive & got mad because they locked up his mother or whatever & then he wants to destroy the world lol.

Its easy to see that this makes not a good story (watch FF VII Last Order) & it doesn't help either that cloud is in reality just an ordinary ex shinra dude.

FF9 & 10 are way better written even though FF9 is more childish & 10 is more mature.

Originally posted by Michael:

Actually, that's not true at all. When FF7 was first in development, it was originally planned to be released for the SNES, and was later pushed back for the N64 - neither of which ultimately happened. THAT'S why the graphics look like crap, and why FF8 and FF9 - both PS1 titles - looked far superior.

I don't know much about this, but I found concept art yesterday:

FFVII early concept artwork[img2.wikia.nocookie.net]

I can't really say that the game looks like crap, even though the blocky characters & battles look really outdated, the environments are still really good.

[Michael]

Originally posted by lolibus:

Originally posted by Michael:

Actually, that's not true at all. When FF7 was first in development, it was originally planned to be released for the SNES, and was later pushed back for the N64 - neither of which ultimately happened. THAT'S why the graphics look like crap, and why FF8 and FF9 - both PS1 titles - looked far superior.

I don't know much about this, but I found concept art yesterday:

FFVII early concept artwork[img2.wikia.nocookie.net]

I can't really say that the game looks like crap, even though the blocky characters & battles look really outdated, the environments are still really good.

Wow, that looks really cool actually. I know it's strange, but I think I would have enjoyed the game more if they had went ahead with the SNES project. The story was vastly different, too, from what I understand. It would have been interesting to see how it went if they took it in the direction they originally intended.

Money talks though, and my own opinions aside, it's no secret that FF7 played a huge part in the popularity of the PS1. Still, I would have really liked to see their original vision as a finished product, rather than see it split into several different concepts the way it was. (Parasite Eve, etc.)

[Kaldarasha]

SNES... pff!

NES!

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14825.0

[Michael]

Originally posted by Kaldarasha:

SNES... pff!

NES!

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14825.0

ROFL! Chinese "versions" don't count. :P

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested though. You think it runs on Nestopia or something?

[! V v :]]

At this point in time loving ff6 and calling ff7 ♥♥♥♥♥♥ is more overrated than calling ff7 the best game ever.

[Michael]

To be perfectly honest, I never got into FF6 all that much. I played all the way through to the end, but it just didn't really click with me. The relationships between the characters just didn't seem that believable.

FF5 on the other hand, had a throw-away story, but it also had the absolute best job system out of all the games, with the only exception being FF11 (Online). The GBA remake with the expanded jobs was fantastic.

Story and presentation wise, FF4, 8, and 10 remain my favorites.

Damn. Now I'm wanting to play FF11 again, to get the bad taste of 14 out of my mouth. Ah, nostalgia...