FINAL FANTASY VII

FINAL FANTASY VII

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Holy Athena Sep 30, 2020 @ 3:38am
2
Who's playing FF7 still becaues the remake is hot garbage?
I am lol..
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Showing 1-15 of 173 comments
NBOX21 Sep 30, 2020 @ 3:59am 
Me. Sometimes, the originals can't be topped and you just don't get that magical feeling out of the remakes. No, it's not nostalgia, it's actually something special that's really hard for me to describe.

That said, I do wish more companies would treat their legacy content a bit better, in particular the way they handle retro games. Kind of like how with Tomb Raider Anniversary which was a full blown remake of the original game, still allowed you to buy a PS1 classics version on the PS3, PSP or PS Vita, or even on Steam where you could get the remake, the original or both.

To be fair, though, the original FF7 is also on PS4, but it's a port of the PC version and it's just not the same as experiencing it on PS1.
SinonSnipe Sep 30, 2020 @ 4:08am 
me
SinonSnipe Sep 30, 2020 @ 4:09am 
I don't understand what Squares problem with the original storyline is
Holy Athena Sep 30, 2020 @ 6:47am 
Originally posted by NBOX21:
Me. Sometimes, the originals can't be topped and you just don't get that magical feeling out of the remakes. No, it's not nostalgia, it's actually something special that's really hard for me to describe.

That said, I do wish more companies would treat their legacy content a bit better, in particular the way they handle retro games. Kind of like how with Tomb Raider Anniversary which was a full blown remake of the original game, still allowed you to buy a PS1 classics version on the PS3, PSP or PS Vita, or even on Steam where you could get the remake, the original or both.

To be fair, though, the original FF7 is also on PS4, but it's a port of the PC version and it's just not the same as experiencing it on PS1.

Yes,

Quite honestly while the story isn't horrible, its the brain dead gameplay I can't stand in modern Final Fantasy games, and how half the games seem to be pointless.

The camera is either stuck up your characters ass 24/7, or you can't see whats going on half the time due to the camera bumping and being pushed by objects during fights. Which makes it impossible to honestly block, or dodge incoming attacks when you're always outnumbered at least 2 to 1.

Which makes the whole game into a "button mash as fast and hard as possible" which is just brainless shallow gameplay.

Then you got boss battles which cut your damage in half because Square thinks its hilarious to throw in a cutscene every random % of HP on bosses, making ultimates, limit breaks, and summons get wasted...

Then as I said regular combat is just epic brainless button mashing, and when its not that, its enemies which dodge everything you do 90% of the time while throwing undodgeable skills at you every 2 seconds...

The whole combat side of the game is an epic joke, then you got the hallway simulator of the Midgard..

They said originally they wanted you to "Explore more of Midgard" which is why they put the whole of part 1 in Midgard.. Except.. you don't really see more of MIdgard, you actually see the same amount (You can argue, oh but you go into more of the sewers, and climb along the roof of of the underside), but I'd argue that's not seeing more of midgard, its seeing more of the same thing, which isn't the same.. They just make you backtrack a ton more than the original..
Last edited by Holy Athena; Sep 30, 2020 @ 6:49am
Tbh i play the Final Fantasy's on the Ps1 console still.Best way to play them imo.
Holy Athena Oct 1, 2020 @ 1:55am 
Originally posted by Harvey and his Rabbit:
Tbh i play the Final Fantasy's on the Ps1 console still.Best way to play them imo.

That's how I play it as well. Kept my PS1, PS2.
Originally posted by Holy Athena:
Originally posted by Harvey and his Rabbit:
Tbh i play the Final Fantasy's on the Ps1 console still.Best way to play them imo.

That's how I play it as well. Kept my PS1, PS2.
Can't beat original. :)
Xengre Oct 1, 2020 @ 12:22pm 
Originally posted by Robert:
I don't understand what Squares problem with the original storyline is
What do you mean? This follows the original storyline with a few additions basically. The ending was just to cause dramatic debate among fans who don't know certain details in the original that already indicate Aerith knew of her future death and stuff. The original game, and in fact the FF franchise as a whole, has virtually no real depth to their combat due to poor balancing.

What bugs me is they mentioned expanding and exploring more of Midgar but they didn't really offer that. It was the same locations and just expansion of that. We didn't see other areas or additional major side conflicts with the Turks or Shinra which was a bummer.
NBOX21 Oct 1, 2020 @ 1:25pm 
Originally posted by Holy Athena:
They said originally they wanted you to "Explore more of Midgard" which is why they put the whole of part 1 in Midgard.. Except.. you don't really see more of MIdgard, you actually see the same amount (You can argue, oh but you go into more of the sewers, and climb along the roof of of the underside), but I'd argue that's not seeing more of midgard, its seeing more of the same thing, which isn't the same.. They just make you backtrack a ton more than the original..
Just another reason to play the originals. You know that old saying "variety is the spice of life"? That's basically what the OG FF7 is. While you don't see nearly as much of certain locations as you would in other games mostly due to limitations back in the day, you get to explore more of the same world and discover more locations thus spicing things up not only in the world building but the gameplay as well, but also while keeping the core gameplay as a focus. After all, you can only experience the same thing for so long before it gets boring. And when things do change significantly in the gameplay, you're doing snowboarding, bike chases, submarine shooting and even a real time strategy mini-game, all of which are fun to play.

In fact, another one of my favourite games, Spyro 3 Year of the Dragon, also on PS1, is more or less a similar case - keeping the core gameplay while adding as much variety as possible to keep the experience interesting the whole way through, not just in gameplay, but locations, theming and even characters. All while being consistently challenging and fun to play.

Originally posted by Xengre:
The original game, and in fact the FF franchise as a whole, has virtually no real depth to their combat due to poor balancing.
Eh, I'd say the customisation alone gives this game a bit of depth to it. While it's true that it is a fairly easy game (one of the easiest in the series), it's still a bit challenging if that makes any sense.
randomgbystander Oct 1, 2020 @ 2:08pm 
Yessir! Finally bought the Steam ver cause mods are the closest we'll get to a faithful remake. Cause fans actually respect the source material.
Xengre Oct 1, 2020 @ 5:33pm 
Originally posted by NBOX21:
Originally posted by Xengre:
The original game, and in fact the FF franchise as a whole, has virtually no real depth to their combat due to poor balancing.
Eh, I'd say the customisation alone gives this game a bit of depth to it. While it's true that it is a fairly easy game (one of the easiest in the series), it's still a bit challenging if that makes any sense.
For a first time player or someone wanting to do a specific roleplay/challenge run I'd agree. It has one of the best JRPG customization systems. It is unfortunate that the simple "Attack" command is almost always the most optimal action after limit breaks in nearly every Final Fantasy game, to the point summons and magic are actually typically straight inferior. Doesn't help that HP Plus, Big Guard, and Beta are so insanely overpowered in this game, too.
Holy Athena Oct 2, 2020 @ 1:07am 
Originally posted by Xengre:
Originally posted by NBOX21:

Eh, I'd say the customisation alone gives this game a bit of depth to it. While it's true that it is a fairly easy game (one of the easiest in the series), it's still a bit challenging if that makes any sense.
For a first time player or someone wanting to do a specific roleplay/challenge run I'd agree. It has one of the best JRPG customization systems. It is unfortunate that the simple "Attack" command is almost always the most optimal action after limit breaks in nearly every Final Fantasy game, to the point summons and magic are actually typically straight inferior. Doesn't help that HP Plus, Big Guard, and Beta are so insanely overpowered in this game, too.

I'd disagree that "every final fantasy" is like that.. Maybe the more modern ones yes from FF12 and onward, I'd agree. FF12, 13, 15 and 7 remake magic is more or less useless, and used only in very specific instances to do something very specific (like stagger).

Older Final Fantasies magic was much more powerful, and or was used in other forms outside of just specific cases.

Final Fantasy 9 (my personal favorite) arguably the magic is too powerful. Vivi for example, even under leveled, can solo any boss, and do monster damage with every spell, well beyond anything any physical hero can do, while getting a pretty early mana regeneration and mana sucking spell.
FF9 you could also press R1 to select multiple monsters, and unlike previous Final Fantasies, it didn't lower the damage of the spell, and you didn't need anything special to do it.

FF8 Magic was in an iffy spot, but still very powerful. The only thing I hated about FF8 was that you socketed spells into your stats, so the more you used your spells the weaker your dudes got.. Which I always hated, but the spells were very powerful in there as well.
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I'd argue the real useless thing that's nearly always useless in every FF is unfortunately the coolest and most well known part of Final Fantasies.. The Summons.. In every FF I ever played, I almost never used the summons, because there was always a magic spell, or other attack that would do equal or more damage, and not require an age long animation cutscene to go along with it.

Unfortunately Final Fantasy 9 was the most useless of summons, as you never got a chance to use them for 3/4ths of the game, (not enough mana, and then the characters that can use them are taken out of your party for the next quarter of the game). By the time you could use them, you had spells from Vivi, Quina, and Vivi/Steiner combo that did easily 2-3x more damage.

It was about that way with most Final Fantasy games, including the FF7 remake, Except magic is 90% useless in FF7 remake as well, especially if you play on Expert mode for the challenge. You'll use your mana for heals and raise 90% of the time, and barely use anything else unless its necessary to stagger an enemy.
Teratus Oct 2, 2020 @ 8:42am 
Yep, I love FF7, one of my all time favourite RPG's.
I may not have much time invested on the steam version as of writing this but I have played this game through literally hundreds of times on Ps1, Ps3 and PsP

As for the remake, I despise it with a passion..
Watching clips and videos of the remake was like watching a beloved childhood friend being brutally abused.. it disgusts and offends me XD
Holy Athena Oct 2, 2020 @ 1:26pm 
Originally posted by Teratus:
Yep, I love FF7, one of my all time favourite RPG's.
I may not have much time invested on the steam version as of writing this but I have played this game through literally hundreds of times on Ps1, Ps3 and PsP

As for the remake, I despise it with a passion..
Watching clips and videos of the remake was like watching a beloved childhood friend being brutally abused.. it disgusts and offends me XD

lol that's a good way to put it...
Xengre Oct 2, 2020 @ 4:02pm 
Originally posted by Holy Athena:
-cut to fit-
I didn't mean just magic but magic, summons, other abilities/skills. FF9 is the ONLY exception out of almost every FF games and only under certain conditions and due to other balance problems, but still it is the best of the lot tbh.

FF6 Edgar + Sabin are rofl, literally brain dead autowin, characters for a great chunk of the game and only begin to actually fall off noticeably later on when you get stuff like Genji Gloves and specific special weapons like Ultima/specific daggers, at which point you are still basically spamming the same brain dead attack command for the most part.

FF7
-Beta can 1-shot everything until disc 3 nearly, even most bosses die in 1-3 uses. Even in disc 3 it is still quite powerful but by that point your physical attack should be doing 5,000-9,9999 damage per hit. Almost no summon can do the damage Beta can, Beta is AoE, and it has nearly no MP cost while being gotten near the start of the game (just after leaving Midgar).
- Alternatively, Aqualung is very powerful and virtually guaranteed by end of disc 1, or earlier if you discover it in the desert world map.
- HP Plus, a single materia bumps your character's HP from around 2,000-3,000 to 9,999. It doesn't take 2-3 of these, just a single one and it levels fairly fast at that and is gotten in Cosmo Canyon so fairly early on. It isn't even barred with an expensive price tag.
- Big Guard, okay this one is actually quite well hidden so not abusable to first time players but the effect is so broken when paired with HP Plus its nearly impossible to lose. It is simply too efficient and can put a character that might normally have EHP of 2-3k at what amounts to basically 20k + haste + cheap cost + AoE
- Attack command is so efficient that summons/magic are largely worthless unless you have the ATB set to wait on every single action, and even then most magic wouldn't be really any better and only a few higher tier summons would scrape ahead. You can test this on a boss having everyone just spam attack vs using a fully setup magic/summon casting party and see which one ends up being easier. I noticed this by chance against the Wutai boss fight when the boss steals your materia and you have access to the powerful Fire3/Bolt3 materia only to find not using that and having everyone, even Aerith, spam attacks made the fight way easier. This is especially so if your ATB runs during animations because shorter delay of animations between attacks from the attack command mean less time for boss ATB to fill and boss has priority action outside limit breaks. In contrast, long summons in many final fantasy games give bosses 2-5x the number of turns they would normally get and make the fight take way longer for a tiny bit extra damage (which is why summons tend to actually be horrible). As for late game well... 9,999 attack /shrugs

FF8
- Infinite limit breaks and anyone will notice this trivializing the game. It is impossible to understand how this mechanic passed balance into the release version of the game.
- 100% death on basic attacks from status junction you can get after getting Siren, aka seed test, from Tonberry cards.
- Darkside, Berserk, Gunblade trigger, Meltdown, or even the basic attack all do varying from incredible to competitive damage
- Magic, by contrast, aside against from the noticeable robotic enemies on very rare occasion will do damage that doesn't make it really any better than physical attacks (before Meltdown, and simply no contest after Meltdown is available). In boss fights Double/Triple is worth considering, though this typically draws from the more powerful stocks that will be junctioned and diminish your character's stats (there are ways to alleviate the severity of this impact tho, for more experienced players).
- Summons just, frankly, underperform aside from Ifrit/Seed test areas and mainly are nice as meat shields in very rare situations where that might be useful (Omega if you don't have access to invincible effects/know better/chars who don't got Defend, and maybe 2-3 other bosses)
- Frankly, nothing is really strong enough to warrant the use of Triple or Summons, or the need for its defensive capability, especially if you junction some decent magic to HP which is readily available a number of ways that isn't just Triple Triad (example Siren tents is immediately very obvious for Curaga, or Dino bones for Earthquake and plenty of visits to garden to farm more if you realize their value without needing to get the cards, both of which new players can easily stumble upon. Also, why use those options if you really want to put out some performance when you can just limit break... forever. Most bosses are very underpowered, too.

FF9
- When used properly Vivi is truly godlike, or better yet exploited by a veteran. For newer players it can range from decent to subpar.
- If player doesn't properly respect elemental weakness of bosses, which is under appreciated but a HUGE deal in FF9 compared to nearly any other FF game which almost completely neglect elemental strengths and weaknesses but may not be obvious in FF9, they can end up doing only acceptable damage or actually bad reduced damage or even healing/negated entirely.
- If the player doesn't keep on top of things with synthesis, and even more importantly steal because FF9 likes to give every single bloody boss nearly something really nice to steal, they may have difficulties accessing the more powerful spells to really excel with Vivi causing him to really do no better than other characters or even worse (say Blizarra for instance).
- Zidane can easily outshine by the time you have recruited Eiko other characters for much of the remaining game due to his consistently powerful damage and ability to often 1-shot bosses with his Trance and he would usually get the most attention for upgrades from the player, most likely. Steiner also starts becoming obviously strong later.
- Many other characters often underperform the three mentioned either having basically no real limit break or a weak one, subpar abilities, or require more effort than really necessary and the right matchups to excel.
- When used right Vivi can do comparable or better damage than even Zidane, but typically not much better creating two characters in the party who are easily recognized as core performers. He also has one of the obviously better limit breaks with a strong double cast that is usable for several actions before depleting.
- When exploited you can reflect damage (AoE blizarra for instance off your party combing 4 weaker casts) into one super cast for easy 9999 every single fight making him #1 damage dealer. He also can be one of the most powerful healers, and eventually the best healer while doing top tier damage.

HOWEVER in FF9, typically aside from Vivi most other skills (Freya, a lot of Quina and requires real effort to make him good and more in depth knowledge for veterans and really only excels in boss fights, Armarant, Steiner until way late game, trash tier dps/support/healer Eiko and Dagger) are simply inferior to the most obvious actions even a newbie will do. Attack or Vivi's magic. This means uber easy and no depth, and often that is enough to crush the enemies because FF9's bosses are well designed but backed by some of the most pathetic boss HP values in FF history. Realistically, if there is an FF someone is going to have trouble with its probably gonna be FF9 but it wont be significant trouble and will be largely relegated to special optional boss fights.

FFX
- Attack broken, most limit breaks are broken, game gives you massive stat buffs and free limit break refills for most boss fights, often tosses items/heals at you too for those fights making most bosses totally trivial. I'm genuinely baffled how people have difficulty on some of the bosses in this game, but it is a thing apparently (notably Seymour fights...? wut)
- Aside from the occasional Flan and one boss in the woods magic is largely never better than simply spamming attacks. Even Lulu's multi-cast limit break for magic is kind of bad and eventually scales so poorly as you begin to break damage limit and really get setup for super bosses and optional content that even having Lulu auto-attack with buffed attack stats would be way more efficient than casting magic with her limit break because it doesn't scale cast amount with stronger spells and weaker magic damage doesn't scale eventually making it simply not realistically efficient.
- Summons are great, but unnecessary and slower than using three characters, and when used right simply no where near as good as three characters. Aeons have limit breaks, their own unique skills (mostly worthless tho impulse is nice), can learn every single ability in the game for absolutely no beneficial reason as they typically all underperform simple Aeon attacks/abilities. Aeons are first and foremost meatshields in this one just like in FF8, except they can actually put out worthwhile damage.
- Unfortunately, Aeons cannot compete with three players spamming numerous attacks in quick succession and that is all you really need to beat most things. Bahamut is powerful, so is Anima, and Magus Sisters. However, FFX is the most broken ff game there is in combat balance for a few reasons. 1) Delay attack exists and is easily acquired on several characters and stacks in brokenness (more on this later). 2.) You can break damage limit to tens of thousands kind of easily (not hard to push to the 20-30k damage range). 3. Aside from like 2-3 super bosses, which even those are easy to the point of being a joke, everything else is an ACTUAL joke (esp that final boss).
- Delay Attack Exists. Again, delay attack. EXISTS. This ability is a command with no cost that can do a basic attack that also delay's the targets turn. When coupled with three characters spamming this, especially while hasted or having plenty of boosted agility stat it can mean even super bosses, literally, never ever get a turn or it takes like 50 attacks for them to make one move. Familiar with the best defense is a great offense? Especially when that offense means the enemy is forever on the defense, and by forever I mean usually literally but at worst figuratively while approaching literally.
- Yojimbo exists. Built in non-premium Pay2Win feature, literally lol

FF12
- Basic attacks are strong and magic doesn't seem very strong when used and in the original version you don't even get like 75% of the magics until basically the final dungeon (yeah wtf is with that) and summons are honestly kind of meh.
- Hardware limits placing caps on how many powerful spells/summon effects can overlap creating a hardcap on how powerful these can be, similar to Tales of games. This means, realistically, only one real caster so you can't have more than one hard magic hitter because they will hold each other back.
- It only takes a mere accident of being hit by berserk from an enemy or casting berserk/haste on yourself to notice something is very wrong with the balance of those two effects. You will immediately see your DPS skyrocket when even one is on you, with one being an obvious buff (haste) if you notice both on you by accident or as a FF veteran and knowing what berserk does you can basically outperform any other option for 90% of the game because haste + berserk is basically like giving your characters hacks, so much that Zodiac Age had to go out of its way to try to heavily nerf this combo as much as possible while not removing it outright (cause people would flip) and moving it to motes for early access and the class system split up.
- Genji Gloves, Brave or whatever buffs only further inflate it to absolutely ridiculous levels.
- Really, the only time anything else competes is at the very end of the game on the last two hardest hunts using Aeroaga on your entire party with reflect (which is arguably more tedious than necessary because Yiazmat has a counter for this, but it is fast and requires much more minimal gearing for his one fight).

FF13
- Idk never played, yet

FF15
- Okay, this one is interesting. Magic is grossly powerful early because you can literally get 9999x4 damage in the first 10 minutes of a new game with magic. It isn't difficult to keep prepped, either, for harder fights and is enough for arguably 90-95% of the game's content including optional hunts/bosses. Magic is very efficient.
- Summons still suck, but they are pretty when you see someone other than Ramuh who has grown stale.
- Attacks are still actually king tho outside of doing bosses in side content waaaay earlier than you are intended to as blindside/(team attack I forget the term) have a built in secret effect where they bypass defense stat and have a very high damage modifier allowing them to 1-shot most things at your level or from around mid-late game completely outstrip magic's performance (even far better than what you can really get done with the super magic). This, however, is definitely not obvious to many players or even many veterans. In fact, it might not become apparent unless you notice it on something like Flans which have normally obscene defense against physical non-elemental damage and then start testing it out on tanky mobs. FF15 also gives you that broken fire + greatsword weapon on the map if you explore a little early which can let you immediately start doing 2k-7k damage.
- Items, just pay2win and you can't ever get a game over. As long as your wallet overfloweth you are immortal.

I mean, most of this is pretty much either so brain dead you can't struggle at the game to begin with or stuff is so broken that if you test it and have decent observational skills your going to notice something is really wrong and test/abuse it. Most brand new players to FF are likely to complete it without any real difficulty, unless they are so new to JRPGs and just outright awful for some reason at strategy games or horribly underleveled/geared (FF9 might prove an issue if you actually are like this while also being bad at these games). Even worse is, in almost every single one of those games simply having your party spam Attack/Limit breaks is almost a free auto-win. Strategy? Hah!

FF9 summons, indeed, make me sad. Ark was really cool to see, but also optional to get and not that great (not to mention using repeatedly with its long animation nthx).
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Date Posted: Sep 30, 2020 @ 3:38am
Posts: 173