AI too easy in Expert, too hard in Legend...

[SBRK]

With a Haas, with Expert AI, I do the pole. In Legend, I can't do any better than 20th... There's nothing in between, so how do I have fun ?

[AgentRuby]

"Legend isn't even the hardest difficulty. And the notion that it's not meant to be fun? Ludicrous."

Yes, but this is how it always works. Everything up to expert is a game. Everything after that and you get closer to what it's really like in a real race. That's just how it is. Mario Kart is meant to be fun. Formula One is not. It's on a whole different level. I do have all the other titles though and I know exactly what they are talking about just by the amount of experience that I have had. It's all the same. 2016 is just a souped up version of 2015 without as many problems. I'll wait until it's solid before I drop $60 on it.

This question was not about whether I own this particular game and it was not about me period. It was about how someone could have fun on Legend mode AI and I just told the truth about racing and you guys could not handle it. It's always the same from game to game with minor differences but it's very similar. I'll tell you one thing that never changes though. The whine whine whine by this new everyone gets a trophy generation.

[Riven_Thaing]

I fully agree with AgentRuby.

Either "Git Gud", complain, or join iRacing. Three perfectly viable options.

[Siliconpot]

Originally posted by TheArchitect:

I fully agree with AgentRuby.
Either "Git Gud", complain, or join iRacing. Three perfectly viable options.

Not sure if this was sarcastic, but...
You honestly think a difficulty slider, or more options to choose from, is not a viable option?

Edit: typo

[Riven_Thaing]

How many difficulty settings do you need? is 20 enough? 50?
Personally, I think there should only be 1 difficulty setting. Realistic.
It's bad enough that "hard" has lost all meaning. Everyone's an expert these days.

The problem with sliders is Codemasters can't fully test the hundreds of possible combinations.
Players would race, say nope, 90 is too slow. Race again, exit to menu and set to 95. Then say nope too fast. Go back to menu, set to 94... find out it's too slow. Then come complain Codemasters need an option for fractions. Maybe you won't, but some other noob will.
rFactor has sliders and what terrible gaming experience that is. At one track, 95 is too high, another track, 95 is way too low. It was constant back and forth between race testing and menus.

Having said all this, I'm not actually against any change. There's alot to fix in this game. I mean a lot. This is the very first F1 game that I haven't refunded, so the more they fix the better.

[Sloth]

+1 with this problem. Hopefully something gets done as a 4 second gap between difficulties is too much. Worst thing is they limited modding on stuff like this since the new gen.

[slcBerg]

Lol at some of the comments. The fact is people of all skill levels are playing this game, and most want the game to feel competitive at their skill level. Lots of us fall in the precarious position where expert is too easy, to the point where pole positions and podiums are pretty easy in lower tier cars, yet when upping the difficulty to legend, we fail all team objectives and lose 2 seconds to our teammates. Practicing for hours I've managed to improve my pace very marginally. It is a video game and is supposed to be fun. The point of multiple difficulty levels is to provide a challenge to players of various skill levels. If the gap between difficulties this great, it detracts from the fun. I honestly don't think it is physically possible for me to improve enough to ever compete on legend, nor do I desire to put in that much time. To agent ruby, I am not a noob to racing games. I'm not bombing into corners or spinning my wheels. I use a steering wheel and have always enjoyed the F1 series. This is the first one where the jump from one ai difficulty to the next has felt this impossibly large. As others have said, a slightly more difficult expert setting would be preferred. A difficulty slider option would be the perfect solution though

[Siliconpot]

Originally posted by SithBerg:

Lol at some of the comments. The fact is people of all skill levels are playing this game, and most want the game to feel competitive at their skill level. Lots of us fall in the precarious position where expert is too easy, to the point where pole positions and podiums are pretty easy in lower tier cars, yet when upping the difficulty to legend, we fail all team objectives and lose 2 seconds to our teammates. Practicing for hours I've managed to improve my pace very marginally. It is a video game and is supposed to be fun. The point of multiple difficulty levels is to provide a challenge to players of various skill levels. If the gap between difficulties this great, it detracts from the fun. I honestly don't think it is physically possible for me to improve enough to ever compete on legend, nor do I desire to put in that much time. To agent ruby, I am not a noob to racing games. I'm not bombing into corners or spinning my wheels. I use a steering wheel and have always enjoyed the F1 series. This is the first one where the jump from one ai difficulty to the next has felt this impossibly large. As others have said, a slightly more difficult expert setting would be preferred. A difficulty slider option would be the perfect solution though

This +1

Good summary.

[WreckkitRalphhh]

Originally posted by CRAZEDDUCKling:

Originally posted by Ivysaur:

Maybe drive more? You cannot always win. Try to race midpack, learn to take your racinglines better, and suddenly you can drive in top 3. Then up the difficulty again. and rinse and repeat. TIll you can beat Ultimate with 2 fingers in your nose and eyes closed.

The problem isn't practice.

The problem is the gargantuan performanc gap between expert and legend AI.

What would be the point of different difficulty options if the answer was "git gud".

To give you an idea of the difference: on expert I can easily qualify front row and win races in a McLaren, on Legend I struggle to stay ahead of the backmarkers.

I mean if you think about it in real life, how do you think McLaren as a team was doing when they were devolping/ released the game? I mean they are doing better this year yes, last year during devolpment not so much...idk. Maybe they are going for a more realistic aspect? Not to start any wars, but not everyone is the top 1% to be that fast. Car Setup is really the key as well..

[SRR Krieg]

Originally posted by AgentRuby:

"Legend isn't even the hardest difficulty. And the notion that it's not meant to be fun? Ludicrous."

Yes, but this is how it always works. Everything up to expert is a game. Everything after that and you get closer to what it's really like in a real race. That's just how it is. Mario Kart is meant to be fun. Formula One is not. It's on a whole different level. I do have all the other titles though and I know exactly what they are talking about just by the amount of experience that I have had. It's all the same. 2016 is just a souped up version of 2015 without as many problems. I'll wait until it's solid before I drop $60 on it.

This question was not about whether I own this particular game and it was not about me period. It was about how someone could have fun on Legend mode AI and I just told the truth about racing and you guys could not handle it. It's always the same from game to game with minor differences but it's very similar. I'll tell you one thing that never changes though. The whine whine whine by this new everyone gets a trophy generation.

This along with all your other comments I don't think you understand what the OP was saying...clearly. So it's simple really, answer this question.

After you have driven a track for hours, you sorted out your setup, you have nailed consistent consecutive laps within 10ths hitting your marks...you have set your fastest time and are at the point where you are on the limit for 10ths....where do you find 2 seconds?

That's what the OP is getting at. They were simply saying they would prefer smaller gaps between the top tiers. They weren't saying slow them down...Keep Ultimate where it is but have the gaps between Ultimate, legend expert and hard closer so that when you master one the tier up is a challenge...not a 2 second jump...you see? Does that make sense to your "get gud" mindset?

The OP has this issue...he is steamrolling one level and getting steam rolled the next tier up...because the gap is 2 seconds. GP2 champions that rick roll the series do not go on to get their asses handed to them by their team mate in F1...you see? Get Gud...lol

[Gilgamesh]

The amount of smug "hardcore" racers who think that an arcade racing game shouldn't have more difficulty options for beginners in this thread is staggering... ok we get it, you're so good that you believe that there shouldn't be any difficulty easier than "Ultra mega RL le mans winner racing veteran"...

[AgentRuby]

@Krieg

"Does that make sense to your "get gud" mindset? "

That's the mindset of a hacker. I'm not. I am a hard worker. I am thinking that you might be having trouble in the comprehension department. On that, maybe I could say "get gud"? It does sound appropriate with your aggressive whiney 2yr old behavior and it seems that is what you want in your fantasy world.

2 seconds? Is that all you are complaining about? Do you know what the difference is on 2013? Ok let's do Australia again. Should I bring out the other years to show the smiliarities? Remember this has the more powerful V8's so bear with the times but keep in mind that divided between the cars they will be very similar in other titles. To explain it further for the uneducated. The times will be different but the gaps of those times will be very similar.


Amateur 1:30's

intermediate 1:28's

Pro 1:27's-1:28's

Expert 1:26's

Legend 1:23's, 1:24's - 1:25's - 1:26's and yes even some 1:27'-1:28's and the unlucky 1:30's+. Yes, the entire range is there as it always has been. It's not fair. It was never intended to be. But as the commentators always say. Someone has to win.

I think the main problem with the OP is that he was talking about Team Haas. No matter how well you pump them up in your own head they will never compete with the top 3 illuminati. It's just made to be that way in the game and in real life.

If you want to be successful on Legend you need to choose a successful Team. That's just the way it is in real life.

These are the results for the Constructors Championship in 2016. it has nothing to do with the driver and everything to do with the Team, the car and who's pockets they filled.


2016 Constructor Standings

1 Mercedes 415
2 Red Bull Racing TAG Heuer 256
3 Ferrari 242
4 Williams Mercedes 96
5 Force India Mercedes 81
8 Haas Ferrari 28


Before you go jumping to conclusions. The gap in real life between all of these teams/cars is rediculous and unfair and it is intended to be that way. Not trying to be hard nosed about it but that's just Formula One. It's really the only unattractive thing about the sport. That and the ticket prices lol. Good luck getting those. Remember who they are driving for. Oil Kings and Oil Princes.

I know you are looking at Team Hass and saying hey they are number 8, why can't I do that? That takes a ton of skill to do that with Haas, Williams or Force India. Good drivers of course but the cars are going to be put in their places every time. Unless Hamilton, Rosberg, Räikkönen ,Vettel, Ricciardo and Verstappen decide to duke out and do something stupid you really don't have a chance. Of all the names listed I think we know which team has the worst chemistry but they win most of the time.

[Riven_Thaing]

I think the problem stems from the fact that the Ai is very homogenous. They move around the track like it's Space Invaders. In real life, there would always be someone to battle. ALWAYS. Even if the guy in front is winning by 300 seconds, there will be a mid fielder or back marker to fight against.
Codemasters will never do this. They will just copy the lap times, create 2 second intervals for each difficulty and call it a day.

[SRR Krieg]

Originally posted by AgentRuby:

@Krieg

"Does that make sense to your "get gud" mindset? "

That's the mindset of a hacker. I'm not. I am a hard worker. I am thinking that you might be having trouble in the comprehension department. On that, maybe I could say "get gud"? It does sound appropriate with your aggressive whiney 2yr old behavior and it seems that is what you want in your fantasy world....

Wow whiney 2yr old behavior...ok that aside

So you are looking at it as a spread between the teams....no that's wrong. I get it... that is the way it is in F1 and it would be stupid if it was not represented in game. So we agree on that. :D

So there were big gaps between tiers in previous games...get that too I've been playing codemasters games since the first Toca wich was just "Race Driver". ...which by the way had a difficulty slider. :D

But that is not what is being discussed....not the spread within a tier. It's the jump from tier to tier. As I said in my original post, Keep Ultimate where it is (we need that) then step down a second each tier. I don't understand the issue you are having with that. It means Expert will be harder. It means Hard will be harder. It means people will be playing on lower difficulties BUT as they hone in their skills they will be able to progress up the tiers with continued challenges.

I honestly don't care tbo, I'm pretty quick, but I understand that each and every one of us has a skill cap. And when we, you, me and everyone else have reached our full potential in the art of race craft it is impossible to gain two seconds. 1 second in motor sport is an eternity let alone 2 so i understand peoples frustration and I would like people to be able to enjoy the game so they can get a soft spot for the sport. The more people that love these games...the better the games will become. I'm a huge F1 fan...and that's all I want.

Sorry for the harsh comments but reading your posts it felt like you were on the get gud wagon. And this has nothing to do with people getting good it's about having an achievable, competative tiered structure for all to enjoy so that they continue to enjoy...continue to play...continue to hone their race craft...and we end up with better lobbies in MP for it.

spell check that for me im tired lol :D cheers. I still vote keep ultimate where it is, 1 second gaps down the tiers.

Toodles

[AgentRuby]

Originally posted by TheArchitect:

I think the problem stems from the fact that the Ai is very homogenous. They move around the track like it's Space Invaders. In real life, there would always be someone to battle. ALWAYS. Even if the guy in front is winning by 300 seconds, there will be a mid fielder or back marker to fight against.
Codemasters will never do this. They will just copy the lap times, create 2 second intervals for each difficulty and call it a day.

You hit the nail on the head. " In real life, there would always be someone to battle. ALWAYS. "

Just like you say it will never happen in Codemasters games. But then again skill levels are vastly different to. Some just don't want to get better and they want a fun game like Mario kart or something. I like fun games to but if I wanted to play a fun game I would go with Split Second by Disney. Now that is a fun game.

[SRR Krieg]

Originally posted by AgentRuby:

Originally posted by TheArchitect:

I think the problem stems from the fact that the Ai is very homogenous. They move around the track like it's Space Invaders. In real life, there would always be someone to battle. ALWAYS. Even if the guy in front is winning by 300 seconds, there will be a mid fielder or back marker to fight against.
Codemasters will never do this. They will just copy the lap times, create 2 second intervals for each difficulty and call it a day.

You hit the nail on the head. " In real life, there would always be someone to battle. ALWAYS. "

Just like you say it will never happen in Codemasters games. But then again skill levels are vastly different to. Some just don't want to get better and they want a fun game like Mario kart or something. I like fun games to but if I wanted to play a fun game I would go with Split Second by Disney. Now that is a fun game.

omg split second...that was a fun game to play with buddies and have a laugh.