Is your love for Civ 3 just nostalgia?

[Roach]

I'm asking this because my first Civ game was 5 (which personally I really like), then I bought 4 ( and it was pretty decent imo, though I prefer 5). Now I am considering 3, but every thread that I read praises Civ 3 endlessly, but almost always is accompanied by 'when I was a kid'.

I am wondering if peoples judgement towards civ 3 and their dislike for the games that followed isn't a bit clouded by their nostalgia instead of a real reason why 3 is better than all others.

I need someone to give me an honest assesment plox!

[Rastrelly]

Civ IV is now works pretty well (yet not perfectly well), but IMO still worse then C3C, even after BTS.

[Lanidae]

Civ 3 is a great game mostly because there is no penalty of settling near your neighbors and you can go through their territory without declaring war or needing a right of passage agreement, also the specialty of each civ is amazing with some being comercial and others being militaristic and so forth. This game is an all out amazing game for anyone who is a fan of the civ series and i would highly recommend it to and possible player.

[Mellow_doomscroller]

Civ 3 was probably the most memorable, but it did have some serious flaws, that Civ IV attempted to correct, but added more problems.

The most egregious was the railroads where you could literally cross an entire continent, with no cost of movement. This made for highly defensive slug-fests in the industrial era, when your fastest unit (cavalry) was no match for slower tanks and infantry defending cities. The game doesn't get moving until the modern era, when tanks are sufficiently powerful that they can crack metropolises with mechanised units fairly quickly when stacked.

Civ 4 added dynamic resource improvements, but heavily nerfed the world map size. A couple armies with the most advanced unit stacked in them were nearly impossible to stop as well.

Rhye's and Fall was probably the best mod made for the civilization series.

[FearAndJoething]

It is outdone by five and four, but that is pretty easily done and the game should not be discarded for that. I prefer it as it feels more fluent than civ V, Though i was young when i first played it so my opinion is clouded by nostalgia.

[Senior Dah Waka Waka]

I think Civ 3 is one of my favorites cause of the all the custome scenarios you can install. My favorite one is Fallout. Where I can play as the Master, Vault City, Brotherhood of Steel, The Glow. I would love to see a scenario mod like that in Civ V but sadly there is none

[Jourjii]

i remember playing civ 5 awhile ago but dont have the money to get the game.. i thought luckly civ 3 is only $1... unfortunatley it's too old for my tastes.

[Mr. Shaggnificent]

I have No. 2 on PS1, and this one. i like them both equally. i've never played 4 or 5, but i've looked at their forums and seen quite a few complaints about them being "dumbed down" to appeal to a broader market.

[Dutchgamer1982]

each of the civ versions added some, and removed some. (the ultimate civ would incorporate those gems of every version)

Civ 1 : no really know that one (never was able to obtain a copy)
Civ 2 : first civ I played, best element were the advisors (they should NEVER have removed them)
Civ 3 : last of the "classic" airforce changed a lot, and corruption was added (limiting to large empires somewhat), also settling in certain tiles was no longer possible.
Also arcraft now only had missions, no longer free fluing as in 2.
It basicly was the same as 1 and 2, but more complete, better balanced.
It also introduced culture, cultural conversion, spionage missions and a lot of other new features

Now 4 and 5 were a HUGE break from this.

The most important thing Civ 4 changed was the city limit (aka corruption) it was WAY to strict.
(this was a game changer... where in CIV 3, having a city on the whole world and litterly own all city's there are, in civ 4 this was no longer viable... in Civ 5 this effect increased further with the bonus 1 city states recieved.
=> some players like this... as it forces you to do less of the micromanegment.. but for players like me who like the micromanegment, it removes depth.

One more thing civ 4 and 5 changed was the removal of stacks of doom. (1 unit max per tile was a game changer, and NOT for the better)

On the positive side :
Civ 4 gave us religion (and that was fun!) and improved trade (better AI)
where Civ 5 gave us new hexagon tiles (liked that) and the ability to BUY tiles (yes!)
And the LIMITED use of strategic resources was also a nice touch (be it though sometimes a little to strict, like do you want nucleair powerplants or nukes??)

what I liked less what that civ 5 removed the cultural conversion (in civ 3 it was possible to overtake a tile (say your sity expands it's culture... and it has 3000 culture while the border city of the AI has only 2000 culture.. in that case you will take the tile that was formerly his..)

the 3d part? meh, never cared much for that.

one other important change : in civ III railroads gave UNLIMITED movement, in 4 and 5 only increased. also in civ 3 mountains produce good production and units can walk trough them.
in 4 and 5 mountains are useless and permanent obstacles in the landscape.

in short both Civ II, Civ III, Civ IV and Civ 5 are totally enjoyable, but they are better seen as different games than succesors. every game removes some, adds some, so all are enough unique to play as such.
Which one as a whole is your favority is a matter of taste.. I tend to like 2 the most (LOVE those advisors) for a gameplay feeling, but like 3 the most for multiplay.

4 and 5 are more populair for more "agressive" players who like building city's less and who like tossing nukes around more,

->
special notion : 4 and 5 are NOT made by the team that made 1-3.

After Civ II, the ORIGINAL team that invented civ left and made the game Call to Power (1)
Only minor members of the design team of civ II stayed to complete civ III, after that they left too.

So thats why civ 4 and 5 have a totally different feel that civ 1-2-3 and alpha centauri (that one you might like as well)

try them all.

Call to Power playes like Civ 3, with a few tweaks :
*no workers, instead a slider for communal works. (see this as a "tax % on production).
(say all your city's combined produce 1000 production, and your communal tax is 30%, in that case you will recieve 300 public works points, and 700 shields will be used by the citys to build whatever they have in their building que.
when you want say a road on a tile you pay for the construction of that road a fee in public works points taken from your "communal chest" (that is seperate from your treasury)
I like that concept a lot, it's better than workers.

Call to power also has tech going to the year 3000 (with basicily 2 ages added after normal civ ends, with unique buildings and units fitting those ages)

Call to power also has sea and space settlers (alowing you to build city's underwater, or floating in space) and the ability to build tunnels on flat sea floors (allowing you to connect continents by road, as england and mainland eu are connected)

Call to power also add because of this unique forms of war.. the space map is like a map on top of the normal one (when in space map vieuw, the floor of the map is transparant and you can see the earth surface below..) this allows you to drop units from space or bomb city's on land from space adding quite a nice touch.
(space and sea war = yay!)

-> and as an added bonus yes you can improve sea tiles, with farms or mines, as you can do space tiles.. now ALL tiles can be improved.

The last thing worth mentioning call to power adds is the ability to truelly terraform.
you can (for a VERY HIGH publik works price) transform certain tiles.
not all transforms are unlocked in early game.
each terrain type has 2 tech requirements :
1 tech req to be allowed to change this terrain type in other types.
1 tech req to be allowed to change other terrain types to this type.
-
When a tile is destroyed by pollution is can't be cleared.. is is truelly destroyed, you need to terraform it back into one of the types you want.

Still the ability to change that worthless plot of desert or tundra in a nice grassland/hill/mountain combination... is SWEET!

ALPHA CENTAURY

is also made by the original team of civ, it was made about at the same time as Civ 2.
(as all civ games gave the space race (to alpha centauri) victory condition, this one shows what happens when they arrive there... (nice!)
it's tech tree is very different (no ages and no lineair demandments, but you have 8 lines.
A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H
each coming with 10 techs.
(so you'll have A1, A2, A3.... A10, also B1, B2, .... B10, etc.)
some techs have multiple requiments of other techs.. but unline civ only ONE of those is needed.. (so to get from A1 to B10, at least 20 different techroutes can be taken. leading to a more unique tech progress)
You can in this game be a civ that knows how to build holodecs, but have not even invented a weapon as simple as the bow, if you like to..)

it has less terrain types. it is different and FAR more complex.
while some terrain types remain.. instead of tile bonus goods, you'll have a few unique tile zones.
Forest, Jungle, Weed, and Kelp also grows to adjectant tiles (logically)
but the most important difference is than common tiles just have 2 stats :
production (bad, decent, good or splendit)
growth (bad, decent, good or splendit)
you can have any combination of those 2.
You DONT terraform a tile directly,,, all tiles here have a height... and a slope.. you CAN terraform with workers this slope.. and that may change fertility.
(a mountain blocks rain, making one side more fertile... so lowering or raising on tile, changes not only the production and fertility of THAT til.. but all tiles near it)
this complex and realistic ecosystem based terraforming I quite like, you might too.

for the rest alpha centauri is wonderfull DARK in it's play.. and has very nice quotes from famous poets, holy books,philosops etc etc (both real and "imagined future historic persons") the planet also has native (alien) life on it.. that serves as barbarions do in civ.. but combatting them might prove a lot more difficult (discover that for yourself)

The best element only Alpha centauri has of all the civ-games : you can DESIGN your own units. You WONT get a tank, or an infantry unit.
What you get is a hull-type (person, alien, vehicle, chopper, hoovercraft, plane, etc)
and different weapons, engines and armorment.
Combine those add a name and presto! your own unit.
-> the first unit of a new design always cost double production cost (prototype) so you'll get your own national unique units every game (sweet!)
-> also nice is that the cost expands as a unit is better.

say a unit having 3 attack 3 defence 3 speed, will be more expansive than if you instead designed and build TWO units
(one of 2 attack 1 defence, 3 speed, and one of 1 attack 2 defence 3 speed)
So having one unit that can do it ALL is totally possible, but desiging units that have a weakness in one area are so much cheaper that usually is the prefered chooise (leading to more nice battle choices...)

So try and buy them ALL
Civ I
Civ II
Alpha Centaury
Call to Power 1
Civ III
Call to power 2
Civ IV
Civ V

for they all are good solid games on their own.

[Dutchgamer1982]

to give you a shorter answer :
all of the civ games are good, and wich one one prefered does more has to do with ones personal flavour and playing style, than it has to do with what game is actually better.

I personally like them in this order :
1 Call to Power 1
* Call to Power 2 (it's basicly the same game, it has 90% the same files as 1, only some are removed some things added, the added part is nice, the removed not so much.. I prefer copy pasting the added stuff to a clear CtP 1 instalation.. and blend them into one game)
2 Civ II
3 Civ III
4 Alpha Centauri
5 Civ 5
6 Civ 4

*Civ 1 I cannot rate, never managed to get myself a copy of that game.. still have it on my wishlist.

[SoulSunder]

Personally I like Civ III the best, however I admit Civ V does impress me. I find Civ IV to be a little cartonish to me.

[Dutchgamer1982]

If I'll have to rate all the games (personally) in my ranking... with a grade between 0.0 and 10.0

1 Call to Power 1 : 9.2 (almost perfect)
2 Call to Power 2 : 9.0
3 Civ II : 8.9
4 Civ III 8.7
5 Alpha Centauri : 8.2
6 Civ 5 : 8.0
7 Civ 4 : 7.6

Or translated for you (less intelligent) americans :

1 Call to Power 1 : A (almost perfect)
2 Call to Power 2 : A
3 Civ II : A-
4 Civ III : A-
5 Alpha Centauri : B+
6 Civ 5 : B+
7 Civ B : B

(Translation table)
Summa-CumLaude grades :
A++ = 10.0
A+ = 9.5 - 9.9
A = 9.0 - 9.4
CumLaude Grades :
A- = 8.5 - 8.9
B+ = 8.0 - 8.4
Good Grades :
B = 7.5 - 7.9
B- = 7.0 - 7.4
Adequate grade :
C+ = 6.5 - 6.9
C = 6.0 - 6.4
Barely Adequate grade :
C- = 5.5 - 5.9
==============
Failed Grades :
D+ = 5.0 - 5.4
D = 4.5 - 4.9
D- = 4.0 - 4.4
E+ = 3.5 - 3.9
E = 3.0 - 3.4
E- = 2.5 - 2.9
F+ = 2.0 - 2.4
F = 1.5 - 1.9
F- = 1.0 - 1.4
F-- = 0.0 - 0.9

[Rastrelly]

Can't agree, Dutchgamer1982 :( For me, Call to Power while being a good attempt, missed something Civ II and III had. There was too much micromanagement (while remowal of terrain improvement unit was a good idea), the game gets too overblown at later stages. That's just an opinion, I still consider CtP great games, but from me Civ II will always be an unbeatable masterpiece of gamedesign, with Civ III being second and CtP - third.

[Dutchgamer1982]

Publicado originalmente por Rastrelly:

Can't agree, Dutchgamer1982 :( For me, Call to Power while being a good attempt, missed something Civ II and III had. There was too much micromanagement (while remowal of terrain improvement unit was a good idea), the game gets too overblown at later stages. That's just an opinion, I still consider CtP great games, but from me Civ II will always be an unbeatable masterpiece of gamedesign, with Civ III being second and CtP - third.

As said.. it's a matter of taste. I can't get enough micromanagment (the more the better) and like civ 4 and 5 less becaude it prevents you from ruling that big global empire (limiting to only 40 city's instead of the 1000+ city's I have on a CtP map;))

[Dutchgamer1982]

But NEVER did anyone make my "ULTIMATE CIV" as I imagined it.

I will tell you my idea (hopefully SOMEONE once makes it)

Introduction of idea of ULTIMATE civ :
*combine the best elements of alpha centauri, call to power, civilizations and spore, with a twist of my own.

Step 1 Generating a planet.
*the base of the game are 2 main resources
-aminoacids
and
-resources
=>
there are over 100.000 different aminoacids in the game, and over 100.000 different resources.
When you start a new game at random 10 aminoacids and 10 resources will be added to your planet (aka map)

Step 2 "evolving phase"
you play now the first 3 stages you might know from spore right untill you get into civilization stage.
In this phase you can add bodyparts to your race.
=> there are well over 10.000.000 different bodyparts in the game, each will be unlocked ONLY if you have acces to 1 or more SPECEFIED aminoacids.
so each time you start a new game, you will get a totally new set of bodyparts to build your race from.

You build you race like in spore :
2,1 CELLPHASE (basicly only growing bigger, and the only stat that matter is wheither you select to be omnivore, carnivore or herbivore. (this will have long term effects)
For my ultimate CIV, I would like to also add the difference between the :
Chemigenic (use chemical energy as a source, think evolution of species who take energy from sulphur and such) Or photogenic (life as we know it)
When you enter land, this fase ends.
(and you have preset wheither you will be Photogenic or Chemigenic)
(and wheither you are omnivore, carnivore or herbivore.)
-> and have body parts that give values for each of these.
(these parts are common to each game.. in this phase all games start the same)

2,2 CREATURE phase (now you become a species)
You basicly now decide what you are.. and select of the many body parts available the ones you like. Meanwhile you start making friends, hunt and compete with other species on your planet.

First a 3D map is generated : all life on the planet will compose out of parts unlocked by the 10 aminoacids available.

You will get acces to only 1 aminoacid (random out of the 10 available on your planet, and combined with what you selected before (photogetic or chemigenic, omnivore, herbivore or carnivore...) that will determine the parts available to you.

Each part adds or remove certain stats, some add speed, others intelligence, others fertility, others longjurity, and so on.

The goal in this phase is to obtain 2 more aminoacids.. (either by aggresive means (raping, sucking them out of them, becoming a parasite.. etc, or by nice means -> living peacefully with other species... and become so close with them, you become one herd with them)

You can change your feeding behaviour ONCE in this fase if you want to.
-> an herbivore can become an omnivore
-> an omnivore can become either a carnivore or a herbivore
-> an carnivore can become an omnivore.
This will however cost you evolution points (meaning you will be longer in this fase and will have less normal bodyparts.. than if you would not have changed.

Once you have 3 aminoacids the next fase starts
(and you enter it with the slider values derrived from your bodyparts)

STAGE 3 TRIBAL
*multiple tribes will be now on your world (you basicly all are early neatherthales, ♥♥♥♥ sapienst etc..) you will need to obtain world dominance, either by killing them all, or by befriending them.

=> this chooice is important.. if you end this phase with befriended races.. you will have acces to different civillians in your city's. -> and if one is smart (science), on is strong (army) and one is likeble (diplomacy) you can see having more than just 1 race can have serouis benefits.
However a society with more than 1 race will be less content (more unhappyness, more corruption)

STEP 3 CIVILISATION ULIMAE FASE
a common 2d civ map is generated.
with the 10 resources on in.
upto 20 civs will be placed on the planet (all of your own race if you were the one left, some of that other race if others were left or a hybrid (so a civ consisting of only 1 race, or a a hybrid of multible rces)
Your city's will be hybrid if you were friendly,

As said hybrid city's do grow slower, and have more unhappyness (the equavalent of having 50% celts and 50% greeks born in your city)
however as they EACH have unique slider values.. you can apoint them to specific taks that fit their race the best.

You play like in civ, but different.
There are about 10.000.000 techs in the game.
Each tech, has a prereq of one of more resources.
So you MUST have acces to that strategic resource to discover the tech.
Each tech does NOT unlock a building or a new unit.
Instead a tech adds building PARTS and unit PARTS.. you can combine them yourself to build units.
You want a bowman that drives a pig around, and fires nuclair missiles with his bow? fine with me.

=> this will have the ffect the tech tree, and the buildings and units avilabla for you to play with are UNIQUE each game.

in this phase your goal is getting acces to more resources.. you need to either conquer all other civ's or form a federation with them (united goverment of earth) with you as it's leader.
once you are master of your own planet, this fase ends slowly...

the way the map plays is
*Public Works as in Call To Power to pay for tile improvements
*the group of tiles avilable to you, will be diffent if you pick chemogenic (you will get a more vulcanic world, as you will trive on that)
Also the kind of tile improvements avilable to you will depend on the sort of tech you have acces too. and race dependant. (no carnivore will eat farmfood, unless it's a cattle farm.)
*the map will be hexogon
*stacks of doom are totally allowed.

a new feature I add : army's.
No longer you controll and build individual armies. Rather your city's build say 248.4 of given unit per turn. (makes more sence)
you will combine these into armies consisting litterly out of thousands and thousands of units.

Explained :
*you ONLY will have armies (think total war, but bigger a LOT bigger) consisting out of a lot of unit cards.
*instead of ordinging 1 unit at a time to transfer from a to b, you can order a typed number of units of type x to go to b.
*units in general will be cheaper, so where you now build 1 unit a turn, you will build a lot more per turn (though still the REALLY expensive designs ofcource will have a lower output that the better designs.


STEP 4 CIV SPACE race

during that civ phase, after you gained all 10 techs, you get acces to space ship parts.
with those you can build your first space ship, and start becoming a space civilization.
You will be able to colonise certain planets in your own solar system.. find upto 20 new resources (and with thema acces to new techs) hidden on those planents and moons.
and be allowed to build your first small space armada... (trust me, even while you in this phase will have no oponents, you will need it later.

in this phase you will also be able to do genetic research and try to find the other 7 aminoacids on your planet, your race does not use and add them to your race.
-> by doing so you will unlock new bodyparts and are able to change and improve your race with them (improving sliders).

Once everything is to your content, you will launch your spaceship (to alpha centauri)
and start the 5th fase of the game.

(note that while space race has acces to multiple maps, and you can fly from planet 1 to 2.. and back.. each planet still has a map that plays like a classic 2d civ map)

[Dutchgamer1982]

5 ONLINE phase

Now you join the "universe" an online server with thousands of players like you.
your goal?
*take new solar systems (more maps = more planets = more production.
in this phase you get planet governers. you can order planets what to build for you...without having to order every city on that planet individually. you will still be able to do the latter if you like though. (one does not order every city to build you part x of the enterprise.. you order the entire planet to build you 2 enterprises a year...
(or whatever space ship design you made up)

*take more resources (each solar system has 30, spead over 3-7 planets.. (each planet has 10 resources, but often multipleplanets share 1 the same, so you will need to colonise more in a system to get all 30 in it..)

and with more resources unlock more tech, and with that new unit (space ship) parts, new building parts, and new terraform options.
-> very late terraform options may allow you to transform regulair worlds into your vulcanic "chemogenic type, or the other way around..)
all worlds can be used for both.. but you can improve them a but towards one of the two.. and can change that slider more, when you get better tech.

*take more aminoacids.
=> this unlocks more genes, and more bodyparts.
alowing you to advancing your race even further.
(eugenics)
each new citycen born after the made change will have the new sliders derrived from the new bodyparts.

*conquer, enslave, kidnap, alliance, federate, etc.. other races.
-each race has it's own stats.

while you may have started with a secondairy race on your planet.
You will NOT be able to eugenicly improve those.
making them lagging behind more and more.

luckely for you you ARE able to get acces now new "secondairy races"
those new races are some AI generated races in the map.
but mostly will be units of other players.
(sending a flying saucer and kidnap population or worse : invade that planet and make it yours, is totally possible, but forming an alliance (like star trek) is a mutually agreeble and good alternative.

aliances have the advantage you will have acces to eachothers race and will recieve all the upgrades of it
the negative part will be, that you will lose acces to the race completely.. when the alliance is broken (or that player is destroyed by a third party)

You will be able to apoint a race on many topics
Who does your science?
who does your economy?
who are your soldiers?
who are your construction workers?
who your diplimats?
etc etc etc..
all this and more... can have a race apointed to them, by default all have your own race addressed to them, but working with seconds may improve that area of your space empire.

This map will basicly look like the galaxy map in spore, the diffence being, you can zoom in on planets individually to get those 2d classic civ maps you like.

step 7 Online Phase 2

in online phase you will be in the beginners server.. with all players of about the same strenght, when you have gained acces to 200 resources + genes.. and researched a decent number of techs, you will leave server A..
(basicly you will be transferred to a new cluster of galaxies (about 10 spore size galaxies with MASIVE space between the,.. but you can travel between them, it is one map)

all the players in this server will like you be of this same quality of level...

once you get to the next mark, the map enlarges again.. and again the type of oponents stiffens.

The game works by a knock out system... once you enter the first space map.
dead = dead. once your civilisation loses it's last city on it's last planet.
it will be game over. your last savegame would be the moment you enetered space phase.

and you will need to start all the way in the low end.

however there is a shortcut. -> if you had friends in an alliance, they can still send you an alliance invite on that new joined noob accound. once in you will have acces to all their races, and their resources and aminoacids.
and they will be able to trade your their techs... after that as you can only trade techs you have acces too.. (and you need resoureces to have acces)..... boosting you back quick to the server where the alliance you joined was operating in.