Ling is not that easy

[KrossKounter]

I don't like ling alright? I don't play her and I don't enjoy playing against her.

But I also think she's incredibly misunderstood.
There's many people that seem to think you can just spam AOP and magically win, but reality is, AOP is a just a stance and you have to learn through alot of experience how to actually make use of it effectively. It's not a braindead thing at all.
If you want to beat AOP, you can literally do nothing.
That's the oversimplified solution to all evasive moves of course, and how easy is that?

It's true that ling the way she is, creates a certain type of player that usually can't break throws, can not punish very well and lacks all kinds of basic skills that will eventually start holding those players back, but that doesn't mean she's easy.
There's a ton to learn about her, setups especially and you really have to learn that stuff with her to get effective with her.

It's true that when you reached a mastery level of ling you really don't need to pay as much attention to your opponent as other characters have to. You can run your programm and put the pressure of winning and figuring you out on your opponent entirely.
But to get there takes time and effort as well.

I remember a very high level player, SaschaDaSilva, who tried to "expose" how BS and ez mode she is by playing her. He gave up after like a day or two after losing a ton and getting nowhere.
Completely failing to make his point of ling being carried and actually making a strong argument for the opposite.

The point is, Ling requires skill, just a different type of what many players think of as "TEKKEN".

Ling does carry once you are experienced with her, but I think that's greatly inflated by how very rare she is. If the playerbase had more experience vs her, she would be alot like HWO.
He's also extremely hard to deal with but he carries nowhere near as much. And it's not because he's more "honest", it's simply because he's much much more common.
I have like 10 times the experience vs HWO then I have vs LING and you surely do as well.

Ling is not easy, she's just different.

But if you're a ling player, do yourself a favor and play other characters.
There is skill she can not teach you and you will need them eventually or get hardstuck.

[Zako]

well no BS detected here,all fair enough
she does create bad players but she does require some type of work to master

and it is also facts that people ignore that because she is so rare and therefore people will only remember the robbery

only thing i disagreed with is the hwoarang comparison,i think the reason he doesent carry as much as that the way you deal with him is much more simple(not easier,more simple) aka lateral mouvement and ducking when he is all up in your face

whereas against ling can still mid crush even when you lab her,its a difference in design,ling is genetically more prone to carry potential but ironically hwoarang requires more knowledge which doesent matter (and this is where i agree with you) because of the fact he is more popular

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

A reason why many players think AoP is easy mode op cheat move is because they mash a lot, like a lot, especially Mishimas, Bryans and such, they mash like crazy even in Blue ranks, and against such players, AoP is much more likely to avoid their moves compared to someone who actually thinks what moves to do.

So it creates a sort of self furfilling prophecy, where they cry that Xiaoyu evades so much with AoP, but then they keep spamming moves AoP evades even more, they get evaded, cycle repeats.

[Zako]

well you can say they mash alot and its probably true in your ranks but in the ranks that actually matter bryans and mishimas are far better than lings and its not even close

using mashers as an excuse,well guess what?mashing mids doesent get you crushed and killed against other characters

maybe its time to take responsability and get some self awereness,dont just blame others,even against non mashers that are tgps i still rob people with lee's ff4 and get rewarded for being incorect in my read

now ling...must be people mashing definetly has nothing to do with her design,give me a break lmao

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Zako:

well you can say they mash alot and its probably true in your ranks but in the ranks that actually matter bryans and mishimas are far better than lings and its not even close

using mashers as an excuse,well guess what?mashing mids doesent get you crushed and killed against other characters

maybe its time to take responsability and get some self awereness,dont just blame others,even against non mashers that are tgps i still rob people with lee's ff4 and get rewarded for being incorect in my read

now ling...must be people mashing definetly has nothing to do with her design,give me a break lmao

Did I say any rank?

Just few days ago I've had a Bryan mash buttons after getting punished because he did something, Northern Cross I think? Something that got hit 10f'd, and he just kept mashing after it, and I kept ch him for that.

I could make a compilation with how many Bryans press after getting punished or hit by something like d/b2.

Doing AoP against someone who mashes so much is much much much more likely to evade something compared with doing AoP against someone who thinks of what moves to do.

And no, I don't give you benefit of saying "but at high ranks", because whenever I said that about Chloe or any other character, you were fast to reply with "but they carry hard at low ranks, so them being hard to play at high ranks doesn't matter", so no, you don't get the benefit of saying it now.

[Zako]

great anecdote

bryans and mishimas are far better than ling players this is not even debatable,not sure how it is in blue ranks as times have changed but yeah nobody cares about some random bryan you met that was mashing

everyone mashes especially in lower ranks,difference is,that guy will probably stay down there while a ling doing the same will rank up,facts

truth of the matter is,ling crushes so much because she evades so much not because people mash,thats just a bonus not the reason

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Far better in their dreams maybe or when against each other, because you yourself admitted that they plug and cherry pick the most.

From personal experience, a Xiaoyu has more experience dealing with mirror matches, or any of my other characters than a Mishima player, so from this part of the aisle if we go by the same logic, Xiaoyu players at say Blue ranks are better than Mishimas at the same rank.

Not sure about you, but in my book, if you're only "better" if you play a certain match-up, you're not better, you're still trash because whenever you're not against that specific match-up where "you're better", you're trash.

[KrossKounter]

I think mashing is the wrong term. It's lack of patience and often short temper. That's why even high level mishimas walk into asuka b3 so much. You can be as skilled as you can, one of the best. If you can't control your cool and start being incredibly agressive because you happened to lose vs a character you think of as "ez mode", you will lose to evasion. You can see this even at TGO happening.
Often they lose their cool even if they just lose a single round, and then they just start blocking with their face. But there's always zero self reflection. The fault always lies with the waifu player, not with the honest mishima master who has zero impulse control.

[Zako]

Originally posted by C.C. アヌビス:

Far better in their dreams maybe or when against each other, because you yourself admitted that they plug and cherry pick the most.

From personal experience, a Xiaoyu has more experience dealing with mirror matches, or any of my other characters than a Mishima player, so from this part of the aisle if we go by the same logic, Xiaoyu players at say Blue ranks are better than Mishimas at the same rank.

Not sure about you, but in my book, if you're only "better" if you play a certain match-up, you're not better, you're still trash because whenever you're not against that specific match-up where "you're better", you're trash.

fundamentals > matchup knowledge

i can suck against panda because i dont know it and you can rob me with fake ♥♥♥♥ im not aware of but if you pick someone i know i will eat you alive

who is better,me or you?a toddler can learn matchups if he isnt lazy,fundamentals are a different breed of skill,you can only get to a very high level of fundamentals with talent by being more gifted than those around you

a lambirghini is more valuable than a fiat because a lamborghini is only accessible to the elite just like talent

so like i said, fundamentals > matchup knowledge

congrats you(not you specifically) are a good school boy and you did your homework,i could get TGP with little to no knowledge just because im solid

[KrossKounter]

Your mindset is self destructive Zako.
You're actually one of the very few that I know who can think like that and still be self reflected.
Most others that think like you have real ego issues and super short tempers.

If I play asuka and I meet such a player, and I win a match. There's a 90% chance he's tilted and starts blocking with his face. From there on out I can just spam b3, cancans and ss2 for days and win without even trying.

This player then in turn will blame the cheapness of my character for his losses and probably punch a kitten or something.
They don't understand that if they didn't have that preconception of "x character honest and y character cheap", they would never have tilted like that in the first place. They would have kept their cool and would have had a legit chance against me.
Instead they self destruct.
There is almost no one that's like you Zako.

And almost all the actual top players are super respectful types that don't have those ego issues to begin with.
Heck, Tetsu praised me for hitting him with b3, what a strong contrast.
And I believe that's why he's so strong and why planetmedusa is plateauing hard.

[Zako]

well yeah the most pointless thing you can do is get crushed by b3 or something like that and get mad like some streamers do(like REALLY mad to the point they stop thinking)

when you see me play against our friend in common frying berries TGP feng i never tilt even when hit with utter b*llshit thats why im able to do that well even on such sh*t + unga/tilting matchup

so far i got salty once against him and like you said, i started playing like a dummy and even he told me i was mashing more and thinking less(ended up losing) but in ranked or when its important i never do

i dont know about other people and how this mindsef affects them but i genuinely think that while indeed pointless and possibly destructive my opinion is right,this guy is saying ling crushes because people mash?come on now,why dont people have the same complaints against shaheen when they mash against him?

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

I didn't say it crushes because people mash, I said it's so effective at crushing because people mash.

I play Xiaoyu, when against people who aren't trying to get a monopoly over buttons, AoP isn't that effective outside reads, but against someone who's button savvy, the success chance for AoP to evade and launch is like 90% if not higher, hence why I said that it creates a self fulfilling prophecy for those people, as they complain they get evaded so much by AoP and in turn they spam even more moves that get evaded by AoP resulting in getting evaded even more by AoP and cycle continues.

[Zako]

it is still much more dangerous against ling than against the avarage character

the real key factor that determines why ling crushes so much and why she is so disliked is that her design is built that way,period

everyone mashes and those same people complain more about ling than they do against shaheen and guess what?they are right, because shaheen doesent kill them as hard for it it has to do with his design not because they mash less against him

[=\[P]/=]

i don't think character alone can tell the player's skill

[r]

Xiaoyu players, like most others players just faceroll controller.

Not very fun.

[Make otgf -9 pls]

If you want to master the char yes she is not the simplest but 1% of xiao players strive to do that