Why is Kazuya considered a defensive character?

[xxXViolentKen666Xxx]

I mean I know he has some great block punishment options but he doesn't has great evasion, only 112 to poke in close range, no stances, you can't move in tekken 7.
I think that might be the reason he got the homing electric and all that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ he got on season 3, he can't move to whiff punish, all he needs in this game is a knockdown to rush you down.

Thoughts? I don't play the character that much anymore so I'd like to see what a Kazuya main thinks.
The only thing I can think is that he is forced to play a bit more defensively in some situations.

[pharmacist12]

His tools aren't suited for offense and he's kinda slow, so you lose your turn more than other characters and can't stay on the offensive, hence you gotta defend more.

[pablonesmrtelny]

Lol. Kazuya mains are calling him defensive :) its an ego thing.

Outside of that he is 50/50 monster.

[Master of Medieval]

pharmacist12 eredeti hozzászólása:

His tools aren't suited for offense and he's kinda slow, so you lose your turn more than other characters and can't stay on the offensive, hence you gotta defend more.

yes I agree with that, kazuja is not as fast as offence characters and lose when you always play offense. But a very suitable character for counter movements. I would say one of the best punisher in this game. A bit the style of Karate you wait until your opponent makes an mistake and then you punish him with a bunch of combos. Especially a good placed roundhouse kick cause a lot of damage. I would Say Kazuja players must very aware about footwork and front and side steps. And you have to analsye your opponents movements very well to find the right point to place your attacks out of your defense.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Basically what Ryoda said.

I'd like to add that Kazuya is considered a defensive character because he doesn't have a move kit that allows disrespecting frames & turns such as evasive attacks or sustainable -1 moves, plus frames, abusable safe pokes, or low-risk, high reward moves. His 50/50 game while being his strongest attribute as a character is way too dangerous to be playing reliably, and is only best utilized once the Kazuya player masters movement and EWGF consistently. Hence why he is better defensively. Also, that sweet -13 ws launcher. ...So this.

Ryoda eredeti hozzászólása:

50/50 is a horrible way to play the game, yet that's kazuyas strongest point besides whiff punishment.
With his crappy poking and over reliance on mixups and execution requirements he's not what you'd call a consistency beast.
Most kazuyas online are completely happy to just force mixups all day and then pretend they're any good cuz kazuya is so hard.
I guess an inconsistent playstyle like that is still viable online tho.

Additionally, why EWGF and movement specifically? Because it allows Kazuya to space his opponents from killing him, and to time his 50/50's, get whiff punishes, punishes, EWGF, and/or wave-dashing a lot. All the while, finding openings within the opponent's character patterns and play-style. And, that is very hard to do.

Furthermore, after mastering his execution barrier, because Kazuya lacks panic attacks, the player must understand most match-ups and can't strong-arm most match-ups unless they want to assert 50/50's all day. Which we've already established, is an inconsistent play-style at the highest levels of play. However, I give props to those that stick with him. In my opinion, he's a very fun and rewarding character to play and requires the player to play "proper" Tekken and have a large degree of character knowledge & execution skill; if you want to put it that way. There are no short-cuts with Kazuya, or they'd be another "online Kazuya" enforcing 50/50 all day (which is very common). And I don't blame them either, after practicing that long, Kazuya only gets above average damage yet semi-below average wall carry. But, he does have that strong 50/50. So there's that.

Edit: And very powerful okizeme.

[Xero_Daxter]

He can only start up his offense when the enemy is on the ground or punishing (either frames or whiff). Even with plus frames he doesn't have a lot of options because if it gets blocked then his turn is over. All of his quick mid pokes are around -6 to -9.

[Master of Medieval]

yes thats why kazuja should actually makes more damage then it would be fair balanced, because the option of combos is limited. I see it more as my defense training character but I wont comes wider than master or expert with it. other charcters needs not even the half of effort to comes to highter ranks. But I never want to compete against kazuja on rank 10 dan that player is like a tekken god in my oppinion because that is real skill ^^.

[Xero_Daxter]

You gotta remember Kazuya has to work hard to get rewarded. It gets harder as you climb the ranks because people would stop using risky moves (or at least tone it down) and just poke you to death. Kazuya is a reactive character and you have to be prepared to backdash/sidestep into whiff punish.

Fun to play with but hard to play competitively especially when other characters have better pokes, safe CH launchers, and evasive tools.

[pharmacist12]

Ryoda eredeti hozzászólása:

50/50 is a horrible way to play the game, yet that's kazuyas strongest point besides whiff punishment. So unless your opponent is a red rank that consistently whiffs for you to get easy electric combos, or you want to basically gamble, playing defensive is the best way to get some consistent results with him.
He's not very suited for it tho, which is why you hardly see him picked in tournament.
With his crappy poking and over reliance on mixups and execution requirements he's not what you'd call a consistency beast.

Most kazuyas online are completely happy to just force mixups all day and then pretend they're any good cuz kazuya is so hard.
I guess an inconsistent playstyle like that is still viable online tho.

Yet still that's his strength, if you can force a guessing game on your opponent with a scary 50/50 then you do that, vortex characters like Kazuya and Akuma live of that vortex guessing game.

You guessed right - you win, guessed wrong - you lose, it's as simple as that

[BeastKingSmash]

Kazuya is a dishonest pig masquerading as honest character, same for Heihachi , there's a reason cheaters and keyboard sweat lords use these characters

[Make otgf -9 pls]

112 10f 25 dmg knockdown, b12 33 dmg 11f, 22- 36 dmg 12f, df2/magic 4 (trash range tho worse than poke range) for counter hit, twin pistons as 13f and ws2 as 16f ws launcher or as a homing move/50/50 (iws). With such great punishment options and bad or risky pokes (good ones start at 19/20f or are -9/-14) he is far better in offence that defence especially in intermediate/higher ranks

[Make otgf -9 pls]

pablonesmrtelny eredeti hozzászólása:

Lol. Kazuya mains are calling him defensive :) its an ego thing.

Outside of that he is 50/50 monster.

his 50/50 requires wave dash, is possible to fuzzy guard unless you learn to instant ws2/twin pistons scrub. His oki after knocking you down is a different thing, it is a bit busted but doesn't make him broken cause of the trash poking, being easily steppable to left side, requires ewgf/pewgf to launch and dies to pressure, always -9 or more.

[pablonesmrtelny]

Make otgf -9 pls eredeti hozzászólása:

pablonesmrtelny eredeti hozzászólása:

Lol. Kazuya mains are calling him defensive :) its an ego thing.

Outside of that he is 50/50 monster.

his 50/50 requires wave dash, is possible to fuzzy guard unless you learn to instant ws2/twin pistons scrub. His oki after knocking you down is a different thing, it is a bit busted but doesn't make him broken cause of the trash poking, being easily steppable to left side, requires ewgf/pewgf to launch and dies to pressure, always -9 or more.

Dude...
1) his 50/50 doesnt require WD at all. You can HS/mid anytime in neutral. You do the WD mostly as a gap closer and for the homing electric which is not necessary since you got unseeable HS.
2) You can fuzzy even the iws2 or iws1,2 from CD except you won't cause the HS is unseeable. And for fuzzy you also assume he won't delay the HS timing which he can at any time.
3) he is absolutely NOT easily steppable (that sounds like a statement from a few years ago before EWGF buffs and ws1+2)
4) where do I argue he is broken? He is just not a defensive char. That label is waaaay too misleading.

[Make otgf -9 pls]

Ryoda eredeti hozzászólása:

Wavedash just makes his 50/50 even stronger. But it's not required.
Fuzzy ducking is always a risky strategy to deal with mixups.
He made it sound like it defeats the mixups entirely which is just a silly thing to say.
Sadly there's a thing called timing, which can completely blow up that silly strategy.
Or if you catch your opponent fuzzy ducking alot, just stick to mids.
He'll get hit sooner or later no matter how short his ducks are.
Fuzzy ducking versus some strings as OS is legit tho.

Looking at him, he's some green/yellow rank mishima player who thinks his characters need buffs rather than him needing to improve.

Guessing by your reply you play alisa... Kazuya is fine as he is now he doesn't needs buffs or nerfs. Wave dash is absolutely required if you really want to utilise his full potential. It is you who cannot deal with char especially that there are stronger mishimas (jin, devil jin). I can do iws, wave dash, korean backdash, ewgf/pewgf, sidestep ewgf, i spend time on learning the char and not crying about being unable to deal with him.

[Make otgf -9 pls]

pablonesmrtelny eredeti hozzászólása:

Make otgf -9 pls eredeti hozzászólása:

his 50/50 requires wave dash, is possible to fuzzy guard unless you learn to instant ws2/twin pistons scrub. His oki after knocking you down is a different thing, it is a bit busted but doesn't make him broken cause of the trash poking, being easily steppable to left side, requires ewgf/pewgf to launch and dies to pressure, always -9 or more.

Dude...
1) his 50/50 doesnt require WD at all. You can HS/mid anytime in neutral. You do the WD mostly as a gap closer and for the homing electric which is not necessary since you got unseeable HS.
2) You can fuzzy even the iws2 or iws1,2 from CD except you won't cause the HS is unseeable. And for fuzzy you also assume he won't delay the HS timing which he can at any time.
3) he is absolutely NOT easily steppable (that sounds like a statement from a few years ago before EWGF buffs and ws1+2)
4) where do I argue he is broken? He is just not a defensive char. That label is waaaay too misleading.

How can you fuzzy unreactable 13f mid? It is to fast to react and you have to guess same with ws2, 16f is just to fast. Also if i recall twin pistons have some decent tracking to his weak side. True ewgf has SOME tracking but it is still possible to step it. In addition you can argue about instant ws 1+2 that has super tracking and is 13f -9 option but still it requires skill and can be inconsistent

[pablonesmrtelny]

Make otgf -9 pls eredeti hozzászólása:

pablonesmrtelny eredeti hozzászólása:

Dude...
1) his 50/50 doesnt require WD at all. You can HS/mid anytime in neutral. You do the WD mostly as a gap closer and for the homing electric which is not necessary since you got unseeable HS.
2) You can fuzzy even the iws2 or iws1,2 from CD except you won't cause the HS is unseeable. And for fuzzy you also assume he won't delay the HS timing which he can at any time.
3) he is absolutely NOT easily steppable (that sounds like a statement from a few years ago before EWGF buffs and ws1+2)
4) where do I argue he is broken? He is just not a defensive char. That label is waaaay too misleading.

How can you fuzzy unreactable 13f mid? It is to fast to react and you have to guess same with ws2, 16f is just to fast. Also if i recall twin pistons have some decent tracking to his weak side. True ewgf has SOME tracking but it is still possible to step it. In addition you can argue about instant ws 1+2 that has super tracking and is 13f -9 option but still it requires skill and can be inconsistent

You can fuzzy it by preemptive ducking into block or preemptive sidestep into block. Or if they are not doing their CD instantly you can react to that and flash duck every time.

https://youtu.be/wf1fpJxejTA

But of course in reality the sweep is unreactable, the mids are unreactable, even the ff3 tbh you just won't react to it in time mostly. The tricks above are just tricks that can save your ass from time to time but the main issue is that most chars usually need to do micro SWL for that HS, the SSL is situational and way harder to time - but then EWGF kills you cause the timing for the EWGF SS and everything else doesnt aline perfectly. And EWGF from WD is used straight up as a homing move. You just wont step it with normal chars. Technically in practice mode it can be done - in reality no. If you step it IRL you just survived your death and you cant count on that.

https://youtu.be/g2ipITKKa5Y

Like in this training session I step electrics like theres no tommorow. But thats not cause its linear - its cause of the incorrect usage and cause I got Kazumi. Strength of EWGF is that the window to step it is very small so EWGF has best tracking in neutral with random timing, ideally deliberately delayed off beat, not after a block stun but mainly you gotta do one WD. No one is stepping that, he better hold back for dear life or face consequences unless its knee or something.