Man, Tekken 7's AI is dogwater.

[Maverick]

I know this interests like 0.1% of people, but as we're all aware, AI cheats in fighting games. It either doesn't have to actually preform the required movements to preform moves (IE: Guiles instant sonic boom/flash kick), has insane damage scaling compared to players, ect.

Tons of games use this for boss fights or even just to make the AI seem more dangerous, and all sorts of other methods of trying to keep things dangerous for the player to pry out more and more tokens. These were generally kept pretty tame, so as not to arouse suspicion by the players that they were being cheated, with a few noteworthy examples that MANY people called out, even back in the day.

Honestly, I'd really love to see if someone these days actually has the talent to make an AI that isn't just outright cheating, but yet also feels competent.

Developers have been lazy on AI for so long in fighting games that it's either 100% a win, or an RNG coinflip if you lose.

"Ooop, boss decided to stop taking damage mid combo, guess I'll die."

"Well, Boss stopped fighting back, guess I win."

Personally, I'd love to see Tekken 8 come out with a boss that isn't just given a laser-gun and super armor, but I don't think they have the talent to do anything other than that anymore.

The actual enemies? The playable characters? Easy wipe.

The "Boss" characters might as well be an RNG check. You could just do the same exact move over and over and have the same chance of beating the boss as doing the deepest combos imaginable. You're not tasked to learn, you're playing the slots (Hah, leave it to Japan to make even fighting games about gambling.)

This is coming from someone who has grinded his way to Tekken God Prime on multiple characters against the AI. It's not even about losing, or getting stuck. I know for a fact I can beat every single boss in the game, I've done it plenty. I've gotten every achievement, and I've played the game on a damn steering wheel online and still taken games.

This is "Wow, this is really bad and I've been hoping for SOME kind of update" desperation.

Please. PLEASE.

If you do ANYTHING in Tekken 8, don't make people hate fighting the boss characters like you did here. They're supposed to be the reward at the end of the run. To test your skills, not your patience with whatever clown was tasked with programming it.

[DA PWN3R 007]

What do you gain out of beating (or losing to) an AI? Serious question.

No one cares THAT much about the single player experience, most gamers are playing online. You’re really preaching to the wall here.

[poop]

Originally posted by DA PWN3R 007:

What do you gain out of beating (or losing to) an AI? Serious question.

No one cares THAT much about the single player experience, most gamers are playing online. You’re really preaching to the wall here.

Only because the AI is incompetent.
Otherwise it would be a decent opponent like the bots you find online sometimes.

[aaaaa]

Originally posted by DA PWN3R 007:

What do you gain out of beating (or losing to) an AI? Serious question.

No one cares THAT much about the single player experience, most gamers are playing online. You’re really preaching to the wall here.

Normally Id say the exact same thing but If AI could convincingly imitate real opponents? Mmm

[Maverick]

Originally posted by DA PWN3R 007:

What do you gain out of beating (or losing to) an AI? Serious question.

No one cares THAT much about the single player experience, most gamers are playing online. You’re really preaching to the wall here.

Because people only care about the online because games have been dumping single player content to focus on that, and intentionally leaving the SP aspects to remain y.

Originally posted by poop:

Only because the AI is incompetent.

It's THIS. This exact reason.


You can't build a jungle gym out of barbed wire and be like "Oh shucks, the kids don't want to swing on the barbed-wire monkey bars, guess they don't like playing outside."

But that's exactly what gaming companies are doing these days, and honestly I think it's intentional. So many games have such lazy single player experiences nowadays compared to how they used to be, and people just parroted "Nobody cares, play online" until slowly, slowly, the life was taken.

You know, Tekken 6 had an entire co-op campaign you could play through, right?

Not just a "6 stages and you're done" thing. I'm talking a full on campaign, and people LOVED it. I know for a fact I'm not the only person sad to see Tekken Force wasn't a part of Tekken 7, and the lackluster AI here makes me wonder if it was the reason why.

Sure, Tekken 3's AI was a little overaggressive, and Tekken 4 and 5's AI were a little braindead, but you could still REASONABLY read and react accordingly.

Now you have Abysmal AI that melts under pressing a singular button and never changes tactics that turns into even WORSE AI that just stops playing by any rules or logic. It's laziness, and excusing it just by saying "Play online" has caused more damage to the fighting game genre than any other, but other game genres have suffered as well.

FPS games like Rainbow Six, Halo, and Even Call of Duty have gotten notably WORSE in their AI, or outright cut the modes alltogether. Because "Just play PVP, I don't like the mode you like so it doesn't matter!"

Why play ANYTHING ever?

I personally enjoy fighting the AI because different games handle AI differently and I enjoy experiencing the various forms of it. Some games have fantastic AI that feel more human than humans do, with none of the constant headache of having to keep up with tech that's generally more along the lines of glitches. It's getting to play without having to try my damndest. Sometimes I'd like to unwind instead of rev up, and there's plenty to enjoy about tons of singleplayer fighting games.

Not only that, the FGC is kind of notorious for being some of the least likable humans since hitler. Win a game, get DM'd death threats. Lose a game, get called slurs.

I'm someone who already gets enough of that crap playing Call of Duty, Warhammer, chess, solitaire......

Point is, if they put ANY work into the single player, people would likely have enjoyed it. Instead everyone played it once and then never again because that's what companies hear when they look online. They see a really loud minority screaming "Screw single player we want online" and instead of listening to both sides, they take the excuse and run with it.

Back in the day, we got both a good Single player experience AND a good online experience.

With Tekken 7 we got a story mode so bad that everyone who has ever played it on the highest difficulty will tell you that it's just a complete RNG fest, and online with "3 frame harada." quality, with no way to see when someone's using Wifi or not. Something Netherrealm studios got right back in MKX.

So a question for you then, 007:

What do you get out of excusing bad work? Why do you think it's okay to do something poorly, even if you don't like it?

Imagine if you were complaining about a bug that prevented you from matching well online, and I said "Hah, why play online? Just play single player, no lag!".

That really wouldn't fix the issue you have with the game, now would it?

[[RNGR|x|GORO]]

Originally posted by Unbound Cross:

I know this interests like 0.1% of people, but as we're all aware, AI cheats in fighting games. It either doesn't have to actually preform the required movements to preform moves (IE: Guiles instant sonic boom/flash kick), has insane damage scaling compared to players, ect.

Tons of games use this for boss fights or even just to make the AI seem more dangerous, and all sorts of other methods of trying to keep things dangerous for the player to pry out more and more tokens. These were generally kept pretty tame, so as not to arouse suspicion by the players that they were being cheated, with a few noteworthy examples that MANY people called out, even back in the day.

Honestly, I'd really love to see if someone these days actually has the talent to make an AI that isn't just outright cheating, but yet also feels competent.

Developers have been lazy on AI for so long in fighting games that it's either 100% a win, or an RNG coinflip if you lose.

"Ooop, boss decided to stop taking damage mid combo, guess I'll die."

"Well, Boss stopped fighting back, guess I win."

Personally, I'd love to see Tekken 8 come out with a boss that isn't just given a laser-gun and super armor, but I don't think they have the talent to do anything other than that anymore.

The actual enemies? The playable characters? Easy wipe.

The "Boss" characters might as well be an RNG check. You could just do the same exact move over and over and have the same chance of beating the boss as doing the deepest combos imaginable. You're not tasked to learn, you're playing the slots (Hah, leave it to Japan to make even fighting games about gambling.)

This is coming from someone who has grinded his way to Tekken God Prime on multiple characters against the AI. It's not even about losing, or getting stuck. I know for a fact I can beat every single boss in the game, I've done it plenty. I've gotten every achievement, and I've played the game on a damn steering wheel online and still taken games.

This is "Wow, this is really bad and I've been hoping for SOME kind of update" desperation.

Please. PLEASE.

If you do ANYTHING in Tekken 8, don't make people hate fighting the boss characters like you did here. They're supposed to be the reward at the end of the run. To test your skills, not your patience with whatever clown was tasked with programming it.

Tbh, T7 AI is very "low-skilled" compared to other FG AI's.

Other FG AI's can, at least, do proper combo damage, but in Tekken 7, bots launch you... And just stand there, menacingly (even in ultrahard, which is the difficulty I play on if I ever play offline). Even T4 and T5's AIs were way better than 7's.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by Goro|Trick|Ranger:

Originally posted by Unbound Cross:

Tbh, T7 AI is very "low-skilled" compared to other FG AI's.

Other FG AI's can, at least, do proper combo damage, but in Tekken 7, bots launch you... And just stand there, menacingly (even in ultrahard, which is the difficulty I play on if I ever play offline). Even T4 and T5's AIs were way better than 7's.

Oh yeah. If anything, I find myself getting bored with treasure hunt because it's too easy even at the highest difficulty. You can just mash forward +LK with Lee and they'll just eat kick after kick. You can pull off 10-hits without a care in the world You could 1v10 on a single health bar and be fine. Compare that to the story mode or arcade mode bosses and it makes you feel a little more like 1 man vs 1 jar.

I just find it frustrating when bosses have random RNG mechanics where they just stop taking damage/knockback, or gain access to moves that the player physically doesn't have access to for the sake of making it "Harder" by just adding in high power gimmick moves and having them spam them.

Devil Kasumi, for example, loves to just float away mid attack and do her little dive.

Except that's not FUN. It robs the player of the experience of getting to bonk her. If they wanted to raise health and OVERALL damage, that would honestly be a better fix than just making the AI able to counter you for doing the right thing that would have killed any other normal player or character.

It's frustrating when the FUNDAMENTAL RULES are broken. Bosses can have gimmicks, but when they start doing things that interrupt the flow that would work in normal fights, it falls apart.

[DA PWN3R 007]

Originally posted by Unbound Cross:

Originally posted by Goro|Trick|Ranger:

Tbh, T7 AI is very "low-skilled" compared to other FG AI's.

Other FG AI's can, at least, do proper combo damage, but in Tekken 7, bots launch you... And just stand there, menacingly (even in ultrahard, which is the difficulty I play on if I ever play offline). Even T4 and T5's AIs were way better than 7's.

Oh yeah. If anything, I find myself getting bored with treasure hunt because it's too easy even at the highest difficulty. You can just mash forward +LK with Lee and they'll just eat kick after kick. You can pull off 10-hits without a care in the world You could 1v10 on a single health bar and be fine. Compare that to the story mode or arcade mode bosses and it makes you feel a little more like 1 man vs 1 jar. :zaglol:

I just find it frustrating when bosses have random RNG mechanics where they just stop taking damage/knockback, or gain access to moves that the player physically doesn't have access to for the sake of making it "Harder" by just adding in high power gimmick moves and having them spam them.

Devil Kasumi, for example, loves to just float away mid attack and do her little dive.

Except that's not FUN. It robs the player of the experience of getting to bonk her. If they wanted to raise health and OVERALL damage, that would honestly be a better fix than just making the AI able to counter you for doing the right thing that would have killed any other normal player or character.

It's frustrating when the FUNDAMENTAL RULES are broken. Bosses can have gimmicks, but when they start doing things that interrupt the flow that would work in normal fights, it falls apart.

It's simple, there's no profit motive to build a better "human like" AI that isn't input reading 24/7. BAMCO has OP DLCs to sell in order to make newcomers feel like they actually accomplished something against actual players, not AIs. Now BAMCO could very well risk making more single player content and better bots for Tekken 8, but the track record of financial success with Tekken 7 suggests that they have no reason to.

[Maverick]

Originally posted by DA PWN3R 007:

Originally posted by Unbound Cross:

BAMCO has OP DLCs to sell in order to make newcomers feel like they actually accomplished something against actual players, not AIs.

Damn I needed that laugh after all the typing and "in depth" analysis.

Take your damn points. You've earned them.

[[RNGR|x|GORO]]

Originally posted by Unbound Cross:

Originally posted by Goro|Trick|Ranger:

Tbh, T7 AI is very "low-skilled" compared to other FG AI's.

Other FG AI's can, at least, do proper combo damage, but in Tekken 7, bots launch you... And just stand there, menacingly (even in ultrahard, which is the difficulty I play on if I ever play offline). Even T4 and T5's AIs were way better than 7's.

Oh yeah. If anything, I find myself getting bored with treasure hunt because it's too easy even at the highest difficulty. You can just mash forward +LK with Lee and they'll just eat kick after kick. You can pull off 10-hits without a care in the world You could 1v10 on a single health bar and be fine. Compare that to the story mode or arcade mode bosses and it makes you feel a little more like 1 man vs 1 jar. :zaglol:

I just find it frustrating when bosses have random RNG mechanics where they just stop taking damage/knockback, or gain access to moves that the player physically doesn't have access to for the sake of making it "Harder" by just adding in high power gimmick moves and having them spam them.

Devil Kasumi, for example, loves to just float away mid attack and do her little dive.

Except that's not FUN. It robs the player of the experience of getting to bonk her. If they wanted to raise health and OVERALL damage, that would honestly be a better fix than just making the AI able to counter you for doing the right thing that would have killed any other normal player or character.

It's frustrating when the FUNDAMENTAL RULES are broken. Bosses can have gimmicks, but when they start doing things that interrupt the flow that would work in normal fights, it falls apart.

Ah yeah, the bosses in story mode xd, I forgot about that. Yeah, that's the only part in the game where it gets pretty unfair, especially in the last chapter lol. I gotta agree with you about that.

[poop]

It is intentional. If you paid attention to the asian MMORPG market these past 20 years you would know the industry favors copy paste hype trains that only last a few months to maybe 2 years. It lets them recycle code and servers to essentially resell the same thing over and over with very little effort.

[Mohsin_ramirez]

Tekken 5 DR had ghost mode where you fight A.I. based on real players skill that youcould download online. And that was on a friggin PSP. what does Tekken 7 have?

Answer: B*ll*cks

Compared to DOA unpredictable A.I. and Virtua fighters punishing A.I. (play brain dead and the a.i. will learn you habits and beat you up for it), Tekkens A.I. always has been dogsh*t outside of player ghosts.

[Raging Amy]

Originally posted by DA PWN3R 007:

What do you gain out of beating (or losing to) an AI? Serious question.

No one cares THAT much about the single player experience, most gamers are playing online. You’re really preaching to the wall here.

Not true I like single player it also can be less stressful Virtua Fighter had some of the best as it gave players who didn't want to or couldn't something to do offline it also had good AI the Ai even had styles like real players which unlike most fighting games offline taught you how to play

[Dagoth Ur]

Originally posted by poop:

Originally posted by DA PWN3R 007:

What do you gain out of beating (or losing to) an AI? Serious question.

No one cares THAT much about the single player experience, most gamers are playing online. You’re really preaching to the wall here.

Only because the AI is incompetent.
Otherwise it would be a decent opponent like the bots you find online sometimes.

agreed

[Pixie_Yu]

Tekke AI is lazy do baby monkey gameplay i get True Tekke God rank and golden panths for Kunimitzu

In Mortal Kombat 11 and Gealty Gear playin with AI is super satisfying because it's tough and smart and tricky
i like more old fashion way of games when playin with computer harder than live online ranking
if u like just playin without waitin online just go for Gealty Gear it's very satisfyin for newcomers with simple basics also game have special mod where you can learn combo examples
MK11 is too darkness & bloody not for everyone

[Lywelyn]

the AI at least does not unga bunga like your average red rank