Why juggling is suposed to fun ?

[Antagonis]

60% or more of the players base solely rely on that, and it only make up for boring, repetitive and frustrating gameplay.

I fail to grasp where i'm suposed to enjoy every Kazuya fight with every kaz relying on the same string in order to get victory as easy as possible.

That you juggle one or 2 time during a fight, ok. But that you whole strategy make your opponent unable to do anything cannot be considered good gameplay.

If i had the money, so god help me, i would make sure that whoeverS thought that making that kind of gameplay a fun thing would never touch a fighting game ever again.

Loosing 50%to 70% percent of your HP while being able to perform 2 actions is not balaced gameplay.

Either make a way to being able to counter juggling or just nerf the sh*t out of it.

I'm just tire of seeing the same boring uninspiring repetitive fight with you who just want to enjoy an actual nice fight and see the other player on steroid, doing the same string at every single occasion.

Go ahead you can vomit a toxic reaction below, it pretty much somerise the community.

[Mincomics]

Hi, you're right, if you are an old Tekken 3/4/5 player and you didn't like the combo path that the series has taken.
I am playing the game by one month, and I immediately noticed (in Ryu ranks) that there was a lot of players that were not ablo to play Tekken, BUT they took typically Katarina or Bryan and spammed the launcher. And they win, thanks to 1 or 2 opening after that I grounded them 3 or 4 times.

At first, coming from Tekken 4 (replayed in December), it was a shock. From the best, less juggling, less ground combo Tekken, to this game!
I seriously thought of asking for the STEAM return, but then I exceeded the time limit.

After few days, I unexpectedly struggled to get out of Ryu playing offensively with Hwoarang: the game was very different and Hwoarang lost its old combos (nonsense).

So I get back to the Kazuya, starting from the fundamentals and playing in cynical "block / punish" mode, WITHOUT knowing the combos, blissfully ignoring the Rages. And despising the various Broken King / Katarina / Flying Women / New Garbage characters full of juggle combo + ground combo.

It was a matter of honor: it was a battle between the old Tekken hard, severe, precise, against all this new stuff. In the end I did it, thanks to many satisfying 1.1.2 and jump + 4 versus user-combos that didn't know how to parry down. I reached the DAN.

@swagster This is a way out that I recommend: get out from the Ryu quicksand with Kazuya, WITHOUT the combos.

Then after 1 DAN, you need to learn some combos, but the style of play is more mature.

[deangelis777]

Originally posted by min_comics:

(in Ryu ranks)

Ryu??? maybe you mean Kyu ranks? ))

[Mincomics]

ahem Kyu

[DonVISIONe]

dont use kazuyas uf 4 string. even at blue ranks everyone will punish you hard for it.
it could be used as a mixup maybe but then again there are way better options

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

"It was a matter of honor: it was a battle between the old Tekken hard, severe, precise, against all this new stuff."

You should understand that new versions of almost any game are going to have changes. You mentioning it was a matter of honor plays right into what David Sirlin calls the Scrub mentality. There is nothing in the game that is dictated by honor.

I am a long time player of every tekken game released besides the crappy gameboy port and tekken revolution. It is confusing to jump from an extremely old title, straight into the newest version. There is literally dozens of concepts and systems in place now that were never in Tekken 4. I understand there is many players that are casual and never experienced serious offline matches back in the day; But to jump online and expect people to play with some superfluous code of honor is nuts.

This is an excellent example of when old school offline tekken meets the current trend of fighting games requiring to have an online mode to gauge their understanding and skill. It is smoke and mirrors. Many decent players will tell you that rank is pretty messed up in Season 2. That most play quickmatch and player match lobbies instead. If players are having a hard time getting out of the starting ranks, it really is a wake-up call to start learning and studying the game and all of its nuanced mechanics. Harada has never intended to spoon-feed information to players, and that is why so many people complain about online- all the way back to the first iteration of online tekken on the consoles: Tekken 5 DR on PS3.

This game IS different from Tekken 4, But learning this game or it's previous versions is HARD. It takes commitment and a base line understanding of the fundamentals- If you are willing to learn the game correctly.

[vindicta feet smeller]

Originally posted by DonVISIONe:

dont use kazuyas uf 4 string. even at blue ranks everyone will punish you hard for it.
it could be used as a mixup maybe but then again there are way better options

He is talking about light blue ranks, don't worry about getting punished for uf4 at grandmanster

[DonVISIONe]

Originally posted by Craig Marduk:

Originally posted by DonVISIONe:

dont use kazuyas uf 4 string. even at blue ranks everyone will punish you hard for it.
it could be used as a mixup maybe but then again there are way better options

He is talking about light blue ranks, don't worry about getting punished for uf4 at grandmanster

actually i meant lightblue. most will block the low

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

I have seen lower ranks consistently punish that move...It isnt too good at any rank lol

[Antagonis]

So after loosing my time reading comment of people saying that since i don't juggle because i think it's lame and boring game play, i suck and here what transpire :

Not a single one you explain to me why a low kick that do 20 damage should be punish by a 70% lost of HP.

Not a single one explain to me why it's fun.

All of you went directly on the defensive. As if you were scare of loosing your easy gameplay.

Juggling is a cancer, that's my opinion and i still fail to grasp where is the fun in seeing a opponent, beating me up without being able to react. It only generate grief for the looser and selfish, disguting autogratification for the winner. Everybody just go to youtube and copys youtubers strings and gameplay.

It is not fun, not thrilling, there is no respect between opponents, it is repetitive AF, and in no way this provide a fun experience for the person that lost.

[poop]

Originally posted by Swagster:

So after loosing my time reading comment of people saying that since i don't juggle because i think it's lame and boring game play, i suck and here what transpire :

Not a single one you explain to me why a low kick that do 20 damage should be punish by a 70% lost of HP.

Not a single one explain to me why it's fun.

All of you went directly on the defensive. As if you were scare of loosing your easy gameplay.

Juggling is a cancer, that's my opinion and i still fail to grasp where is the fun in seeing a opponent, beating me up without being able to react. It only generate grief for the looser and selfish, disguting autogratification for the winner. Everybody just go to youtube and copys youtubers strings and gameplay.

It is not fun, not thrilling, there is no respect between opponents, it is repetitive AF, and in no way this provide a fun experience for the person that lost.

Because starting off with a cheap low kick is just asking to get blocked and punished...you've lost balance because you kick got blocked. It happens.

If you don't like the youtube optimized juggles you can just make up your own if you are so good. there are plenty of juggles that aren't popular but still useful just because they lack 1 - 5 dmg compared to the optimized juggle.

[Mincomics]

Originally posted by Swagster:

So after loosing my time reading comment of people saying that since i don't juggle because i think it's lame and boring game play, i suck and here what transpire :

Not a single one you explain to me why a low kick that do 20 damage should be punish by a 70% lost of HP.

Not a single one explain to me why it's fun.

All of you went directly on the defensive. As if you were scare of loosing your easy gameplay.

Juggling is a cancer, that's my opinion and i still fail to grasp where is the fun in seeing a opponent, beating me up without being able to react. It only generate grief for the looser and selfish, disguting autogratification for the winner. Everybody just go to youtube and copys youtubers strings and gameplay.

It is not fun, not thrilling, there is no respect between opponents, it is repetitive AF, and in no way this provide a fun experience for the person that lost.

1) You're right, is not fun.

2) At beginning I lose a lot of matched against spam users which didn't knew fundamentals (Katarina, Lili, Nocti players).
In particular, in a match I may 4/5 openings, but they do their "60% damage youtube-combo" with 1 opening and often I was losing. You need to learn the combo logic: launcher, connector, string. connector, string, (maybe) cheese.
It's not that different than Killer Instinc 1...

3)Juggling combo are a problem that affect Tekken after Tekken 5. The most realistic and serious of modern Tekken is the 4: very low juggling, no ground combo.

4) Tekken was about martial arts one time, so as you say respect and no hit the opposite on the ground (it was called 'cheese' one time, a sort of shame).
The times change and I feel that Harada is going toward a more combo/juggle game.


I add one complain: Tekken 7 is punishing the main characters. As repeat sometimes TMM on YT, there are cheap characters who get too much easy tool, with low execution, for free.
So if you take Jin or Kazuya - even having previous experience - you get kicked ass by the average Noctis, or Katarina, or Alisa player.
Tekken is officially balanced, but in real it's a lot unbalanced in execution input.

[Mincomics]

I hope that next Tekken will move toward a more realistic, more serious, more 3D experience, but I feel that could become more trashy, more street-fighter, more random.

[dprog1995]

Originally posted by min_comics:

I hope that next Tekken will move toward a more realistic, more serious, more 3D experience, but I feel that could become more trashy, more street-fighter, more random.

unfortunately it won't happen since korean and japanese fans were against Tekken 4.(The game which had more focus on poking than juggling.)

As for that game being broken, I think it was more the fault of the developers never making any updates to fix the balance issues.(Like that obvious Jin overpowered move.)

Tekken 5.0 was more broken than 4(Steve Fox had an easy infinity) but they actually fixed that with 5.1 update unlike 4 that didn't get any update.

[Antagonis]

Originally posted by poop:

Originally posted by Swagster:

So after loosing my time reading comment of people saying that since i don't juggle because i think it's lame and boring game play, i suck and here what transpire :

Not a single one you explain to me why a low kick that do 20 damage should be punish by a 70% lost of HP.

Not a single one explain to me why it's fun.

All of you went directly on the defensive. As if you were scare of loosing your easy gameplay.

Juggling is a cancer, that's my opinion and i still fail to grasp where is the fun in seeing a opponent, beating me up without being able to react. It only generate grief for the looser and selfish, disguting autogratification for the winner. Everybody just go to youtube and copys youtubers strings and gameplay.

It is not fun, not thrilling, there is no respect between opponents, it is repetitive AF, and in no way this provide a fun experience for the person that lost.

Because starting off with a cheap low kick is just asking to get blocked and punished...you've lost balance because you kick got blocked. It happens.

If you don't like the youtube optimized juggles you can just make up your own if you are so good. there are plenty of juggles that aren't popular but still useful just because they lack 1 - 5 dmg compared to the optimized juggle.

....

I'll just ask again. How and why my 20 dmg low kick should be punished by a 70% lost of HP ? You've basicaly saying that since it's a'' low blow '' 20dmg should be punished by a 70% lost of HP....i'm asking WHY, this is supposed to be balanced and incredibly fun gameplay for me, who is punished.

[Antagonis]

Originally posted by min_comics:

Originally posted by Swagster:

So after loosing my time reading comment of people saying that since i don't juggle because i think it's lame and boring game play, i suck and here what transpire :

Not a single one you explain to me why a low kick that do 20 damage should be punish by a 70% lost of HP.

Not a single one explain to me why it's fun.

All of you went directly on the defensive. As if you were scare of loosing your easy gameplay.

Juggling is a cancer, that's my opinion and i still fail to grasp where is the fun in seeing a opponent, beating me up without being able to react. It only generate grief for the looser and selfish, disguting autogratification for the winner. Everybody just go to youtube and copys youtubers strings and gameplay.

It is not fun, not thrilling, there is no respect between opponents, it is repetitive AF, and in no way this provide a fun experience for the person that lost.

1) You're right, is not fun.

2) At beginning I lose a lot of matched against spam users which didn't knew fundamentals (Katarina, Lili, Nocti players).
In particular, in a match I may 4/5 openings, but they do their "60% damage youtube-combo" with 1 opening and often I was losing. You need to learn the combo logic: launcher, connector, string. connector, string, (maybe) cheese.
It's not that different than Killer Instinc 1...

3)Juggling combo are a problem that affect Tekken after Tekken 5. The most realistic and serious of modern Tekken is the 4: very low juggling, no ground combo.

4) Tekken was about martial arts one time, so as you say respect and no hit the opposite on the ground (it was called 'cheese' one time, a sort of shame).
The times change and I feel that Harada is going toward a more combo/juggle game.


I add one complain: Tekken 7 is punishing the main characters. As repeat sometimes TMM on YT, there are cheap characters who get too much easy tool, with low execution, for free.
So if you take Jin or Kazuya - even having previous experience - you get kicked ass by the average Noctis, or Katarina, or Alisa player.
Tekken is officially balanced, but in real it's a lot unbalanced in execution input.

What do you think of the following :

Changing the ''invincible move '' to a move that allow OP juggling to be countered. Like, im mid air. I mean, you can't cancel King series of grappling, why wouldnt you be able to counter juggling ?

Or should juggling be nerfed like, a lot

And i also think they should make bigger arena.