Miguel players

[Sirlion]

Shoutout to all the 3 Miguel players out there. You are very brave. I salute you.
Cool character design, Spanish and stuff, clobbers people... very nice. But ♥♥♥♥ me the execution required for some of his crap is stupid hard. How can you go into SAV 3 times in a row in a single combo to do "just" 63 dmg? This ♥♥♥♥ is insane. RIP your thumbs, I admire your efforts.
He may have TRex arms but you'll have the hands of a construction worker at the end of the day.
And I thought Bryan was hard, my God.

[76561197996054810]

Originally posted by H.U.N.K:

Originally posted by ha ha ha:

you must've fought against some mighty trash noobs

maybie I dont know but I know for dam sure if I was using miguel blind I'd get destroyed because unlike steve he has no super fast or high priority moves you can use as crutch if you get into trouble.

why would you go against other players with a character you don't know how to play?

anyway... i tried Steve in practice mode once and i couldn't even do basic combos, i tried for like an hour to get a feel of him and it wasn't happening... i really doubt Miguel is harder than that, Steve got like a whole bible of moves

[76561197996054810]

also i met this lagging Miguel who was able to do everything he wanted with a laggy connection when my character couldn't even move.... like how hard can he be?

[🔞𝕂𝔸𝕋𝔸ℕ𝔸🔞]

Originally posted by ha ha ha:

also i met this lagging Miguel who was able to do everything he wanted with a laggy connection when my character couldn't even move.... like how hard can he be?

also i met this lagging Law
also i met this lagging Steve
also i met this lagging chloe

wtf is youre point bro are you by accident just a low iq troll :D

I mean whats youre point laws dragon tail is hard blockable on 2-3 bars XD
There is even a video out there that prooves it. Youre point maybe bad connection thats bad in general for every char XD

I could even extent youre training example. I went into traing and i could do basic combos with steve does it mean youre bad at steve XD

[H.U.N.K]

Originally posted by ha ha ha:

Originally posted by H.U.N.K:

maybie I dont know but I know for dam sure if I was using miguel blind I'd get destroyed because unlike steve he has no super fast or high priority moves you can use as crutch if you get into trouble.

why would you go against other players with a character you don't know how to play?

anyway... i tried Steve in practice mode once and i couldn't even do basic combos, i tried for like an hour to get a feel of him and it wasn't happening... i really doubt Miguel is harder than that, Steve got like a whole bible of moves

Because I have a basic grasp of steve and I'm good enough at tekken to know what works and what doesn't and I was winning without using spam so I figured I'd go for it lol?.
And steve has some amazing usefull moves his ff+2 prity much destroys everything it's lightning fast and has massive priority and his footstomp into a hook is great for catching people offguard as is his stance punches.
where as miguel you can prity much punch him out of everything he does no matter what frame hes in I was fighting a leo and no matter what moves I was doing he was basicly just using basic jabs and kicks and literaly hitting me out of everything I tried and I was prity much trying ever move he has I couldn't tell if the guy was a noob just randomly pressing moves or a genius and actualy meaning to hit me out of my moves as I was doing them.

[🔞𝕂𝔸𝕋𝔸ℕ𝔸🔞]

Originally posted by H.U.N.K:

Originally posted by ha ha ha:

why would you go against other players with a character you don't know how to play?

anyway... i tried Steve in practice mode once and i couldn't even do basic combos, i tried for like an hour to get a feel of him and it wasn't happening... i really doubt Miguel is harder than that, Steve got like a whole bible of moves

Because I have a basic grasp of steve and I'm good enough at tekken to know what works and what doesn't and I was winning without using spam so I figured I'd go for it lol?.
And steve has some amazing usefull moves his ff+2 prity much destroys everything it's lightning fast and has massive priority and his footstomp into a hook is great for catching people offguard as is his stance punches.
where as miguel you can prity much punch him out of everything he does no matter what frame hes in I was fighting a leo and no matter what moves I was doing he was basicly just using basic jabs and kicks and literaly hitting me out of everything I tried and I was prity much trying ever move he has I couldn't tell if the guy was a noob just randomly pressing moves or a genius and actualy meaning to hit me out of my moves as I was doing them.

Have the same experiance against Leo, a friend of mine plays it, its so hard to fight him.

[76561197996054810]

Originally posted by K@TANA:

Originally posted by ha ha ha:

also i met this lagging Miguel who was able to do everything he wanted with a laggy connection when my character couldn't even move.... like how hard can he be?

also i met this lagging Law
also i met this lagging Steve
also i met this lagging chloe

wtf is youre point bro are you by accident just a low iq troll :D

wtf have you taken your medicine today? u seem like you got a mental problem

[North Korean Backdash]

Originally posted by H.U.N.K:

Originally posted by ha ha ha:

why would you go against other players with a character you don't know how to play?

anyway... i tried Steve in practice mode once and i couldn't even do basic combos, i tried for like an hour to get a feel of him and it wasn't happening... i really doubt Miguel is harder than that, Steve got like a whole bible of moves

Because I have a basic grasp of steve and I'm good enough at tekken to know what works and what doesn't and I was winning without using spam so I figured I'd go for it lol?.
And steve has some amazing usefull moves his ff+2 prity much destroys everything it's lightning fast and has massive priority and his footstomp into a hook is great for catching people offguard as is his stance punches.
where as miguel you can prity much punch him out of everything he does no matter what frame hes in I was fighting a leo and no matter what moves I was doing he was basicly just using basic jabs and kicks and literaly hitting me out of everything I tried and I was prity much trying ever move he has I couldn't tell if the guy was a noob just randomly pressing moves or a genius and actualy meaning to hit me out of my moves as I was doing them.

Out of curiosity, just what sort of basic understanding of Steve are we talking about? Because defeating 3rd dans, Brawlers etc. proves nothing at all. Back in S1 I picked Bryan for the hell of it and 3-0'd a Warrior Steve just by spacing and spamming. I did the same with Miguel on an upper yellow Hwo who didn't know when to stop pressing to not get hit by an armor move and was whiffing from half across the screen. Does it prove anything? Absolutely not since you don't judge a character's strength against that sort of players, especially in Season 2. Things that work on such people stop working later on.

Steve is a strong character but he's absolutely advanced and the amount of stuff you have to think about and execute can be pretty daunting. I faced some higher ranked people, some in light blues with him while knowing most of his more technical stuff and it was really tough sometimes to even get in (of course it's also down to the fact that I'm not good at the game and maybe suck with Steve but still). You don't have a standard toolset, you have to train yourself to cancel out of some moves into standing block, use instant stance moves, you have rather low comeback potential due to no threatening lows/hellsweeps, you can't block low while in stances, you can't launch people from standing until -17(!) and quite a bit more without delving into too many details. And his combos aren't that easy.

Miguel? He's pretty buff in S2 and has pretty awesome moves, lol. The mere fact that he has kicks and a standard hopkick, a magic 4, really pesky lows and some powerful mids already makes him easier and more beginner-friend,y. Hell, he even has a bootleg b1 so I don't know what you're talking about with no high priority moves. He also has an excellent backdash cancel that travels back a lot.
I saw Speedkicks play him against a relatively well-known streamer and he was using SAV d/f2 like 25 times a round.

I don't relly know what we're discussing here, it's like arguing Lucky Chloe is harder than Lee Chaolan. In fact, I'm thinking about trying him again now.

[ryan.johnson307]

Originally posted by Sirlion:

Originally posted by ChineseBastard:

Every combo apart from his WS launcher combo is fairly easy. I would be curious as to what combo you are trying to do that involves that much SAV.

At the moment I'm trying this old staple: entering SAV -> SAV df2, db2, df1-f SAVdf1-f SAV4 S! dash! df1 df22

The thing that really makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong is that from normal df1 to SAV df1 or double SAV df1 I seem to either drop the -f input or hold it for too long and drop the combo alltogether. I tried to slide the thumb between the df input into f while pressing 1 but doing this for up to 3 times in a single combo feels heavy on the finger so I'm probably not understanding how to do it correctly

Yea so the motion is df+1, ,slide thumb to forward to go into SAV, slide thumb back to do SAV df+1. Should be consistent after a bit of practice.

You should just be able to do df+2,2 as the screw move instead of SAV 4 iirc.

[North Korean Backdash]

Originally posted by ryan.johnson307:

Originally posted by Sirlion:

At the moment I'm trying this old staple: entering SAV -> SAV df2, db2, df1-f SAVdf1-f SAV4 S! dash! df1 df22

The thing that really makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong is that from normal df1 to SAV df1 or double SAV df1 I seem to either drop the -f input or hold it for too long and drop the combo alltogether. I tried to slide the thumb between the df input into f while pressing 1 but doing this for up to 3 times in a single combo feels heavy on the finger so I'm probably not understanding how to do it correctly

Yea so the motion is df+1, ,slide thumb to forward to go into SAV, slide thumb back to do SAV df+1. Should be consistent after a bit of practice.

You should just be able to do df+2,2 as the screw move instead of SAV 4 iirc.

You can and it's the option Speedkicks did in the stream I mentioned.

[Sirlion]

After 3 days of extensive play I think I can say that Miguel is really tough to control. I watched some Sephiblack gameplay to have a basic understanding of his gameplan but all I see is a million Highs that people duck constantly. I am sticking to a very basic flow of

124 SAV11 d4,1+2
12 1+2 d1+2
db3 SAV db3 or SAV 2
df1 and extensions into SAV df1 or SAV db3

and a bit of spacing. I use uf1 for approach and armor moves if people rush me down. f 2+3 on a read is super good too.

Still I find it very hard to use him as a rush down brawler and I think 90% of his highs are easily ducked even by mistake by low ranks with very little difficulty. His jabs have super short range as well and his 2,1 being high high is a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥. if all I can do to punish i12 is throw out highs well...

[🔞𝕂𝔸𝕋𝔸ℕ𝔸🔞]

Originally posted by ha ha ha:

Originally posted by K@TANA:

also i met this lagging Law
also i met this lagging Steve
also i met this lagging chloe

wtf is youre point bro are you by accident just a low iq troll :D

wtf have you taken your medicine today? u seem like you got a mental problem

So you didnt undertsood what i meant with it, that just means youre Iq is so low i wouldnt even find it if i lay on the ground ggwp i just block you XD

Its useless to have any conversation with idio** like you :)

Originally posted by Sirlion:

After 3 days of extensive play I think I can say that Miguel is really tough to control. I watched some Sephiblack gameplay to have a basic understanding of his gameplan but all I see is a million Highs that people duck constantly. I am sticking to a very basic flow of

124 SAV11 d4,1+2
12 1+2 d1+2
db3 SAV db3 or SAV 2
df1 and extensions into SAV df1 or SAV db3

and a bit of spacing. I use uf1 for approach and armor moves if people rush me down. f 2+3 on a read is super good too.

Still I find it very hard to use him as a rush down brawler and I think 90% of his highs are easily ducked even by mistake by low ranks with very little difficulty. His jabs have super short range as well and his 2,1 being high high is a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥. if all I can do to punish i12 is throw out highs well...

Try watching some speedkick miguel vids :)

[North Korean Backdash]

I've just tried a d/f2,1 combo that does 69dmg and there's not much execution to it:
d/f2,1 standing 4, d/b2, d/f1, SAV 4 deep dash d/f1, ff2,1.

The one from SAV d/f2 does 75, lol. SAV d/f2, d/b2, d/f1, SAV df/1, d/f2,2, deep dash d/f1 ff2,2 or ff2,2 for wall carry (if it works, haven't tried it as I made up those combos from memory).

Think those are pretty close to optimal and not really that demanding, if it helps you.

Regarding gameplan, I saw Speedkicks playing him pretty defensively and it seems to work.
I've seen people backdash and threathen opponents with SAV d/b3's massive range and SAV d/f2. He's got a lot of good moves IMO, just his jab range isn't great. Also, sometimes your best pressure tool (or should I say most of the time) is a bog standard d/f1 checking. Not really sure, I'm infinitely lower ranked than you but I'd throw out d/f1 a lot whenever applicable.

[mingy]

Originally posted by Sirlion:

Still I find it very hard to use him as a rush down brawler and I think 90% of his highs are easily ducked even by mistake by low ranks with very little difficulty. His jabs have super short range as well and his 2,1 being high high is a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥. if all I can do to punish i12 is throw out highs well...

Well, these are pretty much some of the reasons as to why Miguel is considered low tier and hard to play effectively. Lacking in arm range and tracking, and a pressure game that is difficult to maintain with not much reward as well.

[🔞𝕂𝔸𝕋𝔸ℕ𝔸🔞]

Originally posted by Amatsubu:

I've just tried a d/f2,1 combo that does 69dmg and there's not much execution to it:
d/f2,1 standing 4, d/b2, d/f1, SAV 4 deep dash d/f1, ff2,1.

The one from SAV d/f2 does 75, lol. SAV d/f2, d/b2, d/f1, SAV df/1, d/f2,2, deep dash d/f1 ff2,2 or ff2,2 for wall carry (if it works, haven't tried it as I made up those combos from memory).

Think those are pretty close to optimal and not really that demanding, if it helps you.

Regarding gameplan, I saw Speedkicks playing him pretty defensively and it seems to work.
I've seen people backdash and threathen opponents with SAV d/b3's massive range and SAV d/f2. He's got a lot of good moves IMO, just his jab range isn't great. Also, sometimes your best pressure tool (or should I say most of the time) is a bog standard d/f1 checking. Not really sure, I'm infinitely lower ranked than you but I'd throw out d/f1 a lot whenever applicable.

You seem to have a good clue abot Miguel, if i may ask. What should i do against opponents like leo that have a faster mid as Miguel? his df1 is slower (i dont look at frame data so i dunno) but if i fight against a friend that changed to leo its really hard to stop his moves.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by ChineseBastard:

Originally posted by Sirlion:

Still I find it very hard to use him as a rush down brawler and I think 90% of his highs are easily ducked even by mistake by low ranks with very little difficulty. His jabs have super short range as well and his 2,1 being high high is a bit ♥♥♥♥♥♥. if all I can do to punish i12 is throw out highs well...

Well, these are pretty much some of the reasons as to why Miguel is considered low tier and hard to play effectively. Lacking in arm range and tracking, and a pressure game that is difficult to maintain with not much reward as well.

Yeah the tracking and his arm range is meh. But i have to say he can pressure pretty good if youre opponent tries to push buttons. But in general youre right :(

[TequilaSunrise]

Miguel is always angry because he can't pleasure himself with those T-Rex arms, he can't reach.