Paid frame data should have sunk this game, this brand, and this company. Refund this garbage.

[Might Be A FemMarine]

Frame data is the difference between "use this a lot, you can frame trap with it" and "generally don't use this raw, it's punishable." Not having that information makes it impossible, yes literally impossible, to learn how to play this game.

Mortal Kombat shows frame data. Killer Instinct shows frame data. Street Fighter V shows frame data. Dragon Ball FighterZ shows frame data. Them's Fightin' Herds shows frame data. Under Night In-Birth Exe:Late(st) shows frame data. Dead or Alive shows frame data. Fantasy Strike shows frame data. Pocket Rumble shows frame data. Tough Love Arena, a browser game with sound effects that are made by a guy saying "pshhh" into the microphone, shows frame data AND HAS ROLLBACK NETCODE.

I have played a *lot* of fighting games, and the only games I can think of that don't tell you frame data are Samurai Shodown, the Soul Calibur series, and Power Rangers: Battle For The Grid.

I'm not surprised that there are brainless fanboys defending this game, but it does strike me as a little pathetic that they're exposing themselves like this.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

https://rbnorway.org/t7-frame-data/

Use that, like everyone else. Tekken 7 is the first Tekken game to have frame data in-game.

Also, fun fact, I end up using RBNorway much more often than the DLC frame data, simply because most of the time I need info on what's what is between matches, and the DLC can't he used at that time.

[Azami]

While I do wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying.... please don't refund the frame data dlc. You're just going to make it twice as hard for yourself if you're going to practice by yourself. You could use a mod called "Tekken overlay" that shows frame data, throw techs, and hitboxes. It's also free.

https://youtu.be/x4JJDC4P4iM

Though I prefer the ingame frame data and the mod is 90% accurate as the mod miscalculated some of the moves' frames.

You can use frame data websites but for me, I use them only to find specific moves that I need for punishment training. Not to mention, frame data websites don't tell you the frames of the moves in between strings.

All the other stuff you mentioned, requires research/ googling and I can definitely understand how tedious that might be. But then again, even if there were guides on frame data and punishments within tekken, you would still be researching online regardless.

[poop]

Originally posted by CatgirlKazu:

Training mode is pointless if it doesn't tell you what's plus, what's punishable, what's a frame trap, et cetera. Not having that information makes it impossible, yes literally impossible, to learn how to play this game.

This is so offensive that I might just refund the game instead of paying the extra buck-fifty.

The recovery data display that was always in practice mode tells you all that without numbers...

[Z Y Z Z]

It doesn't make it impossible. You're over exaggerating and you need to stop.

[Cubierto de Ceniza]

Other 8th-gen fighting games had native frame data from day 1 for free. This is ridiculous.

[poop]

Originally posted by GargoyleDrakeNopeIt'sJake:

Other 8th-gen fighting games had native frame data from day 1 for free. This is ridiculous.

Who cares? What makes a game is not just copying what others do or checking off boxes on a feature list. There is no standard features list for Tekken games. Each one tries different things.

To Namco, in game frame data is just another thing they have to update when doing balances changes. Just more work for them to do, so charging for it does make sense. Just because others use it as a freebie does not mean Namco has to.

Sonic and other restaurants give everyone free mints but McDonalds isn't losing any customers over not doing that.

[Might Be A FemMarine]

Originally posted by poop:

Originally posted by GargoyleDrakeNopeIt'sJake:

Other 8th-gen fighting games had native frame data from day 1 for free. This is ridiculous.

What makes a game is not just copying what others do or checking off boxes on a feature list.

Sonic and other restaurants give everyone free mints but McDonalds isn't losing any customers over not doing that.

So what you're saying is that you don't actually play fighting games, do I have that right?

Come back after you've played something with rollback.

[poop]

Originally posted by CatgirlKazu:

Originally posted by poop:

What makes a game is not just copying what others do or checking off boxes on a feature list.

Sonic and other restaurants give everyone free mints but McDonalds isn't losing any customers over not doing that.

So what you're saying is that you don't actually play fighting games.

Come back after you've played something with rollback.

Nah I don't play games that suck just because some dweebs think a particular feature is neeto bandito.

[Soul XCV]

I started playing Tekken 7 back in 2017 on release on PS4, and it is only until last week when I bought the game on PC that I also got the frame data. I didn't have frame data for 4 years and I'm doing just fine.
- There's like 1 billion guides online that show frame data. Literally search for "<insert character name> guide" on Youtube and every single video will teach you their frame data.
- There's rbnorway.org
- There's the standard frame data ruleset like hopkicks are generally 15f startup and -13 OB; or a generic df1 having 13f startup and tracking to the character's weak side and is usually -1 OB, or how jabs are always 10f, etc.

"Literally impossible to learn the game"? LOL no. That's a you problem IMO.

[CZI]

I totally appreciate official support on frame data.
It's more fair to be public knowledge for eSport platform.
But I think Tekken 8 should have as base game.

For data accuracy I think following site is pretty accurate as he's doing video analysis as well.

http://geppopotamus.info/game/tekken7fr/index_en.htm

[The somemivix YEE ELITE]

Originally posted by CatgirlKazu:

Training mode is pointless if it doesn't tell you what's plus, what's punishable, what's a frame trap, et cetera. Not having that information makes it impossible, yes literally impossible, to learn how to play this game.

This is so offensive that I might just refund the game instead of paying the extra buck-fifty.

yes

[AGA | prinnyuber]

I need to question everyone about the reliance on integers. Believe me! The last thing you need to worry about in an online match is more math. Math is better on rpgs anyway.

[Azami]

Originally posted by poop:

Originally posted by GargoyleDrakeNopeIt'sJake:

Other 8th-gen fighting games had native frame data from day 1 for free. This is ridiculous.

Who cares? What makes a game is not just copying what others do or checking off boxes on a feature list. There is no standard features list for Tekken games. Each one tries different things.

To Namco, in game frame data is just another thing they have to update when doing balances changes. Just more work for them to do, so charging for it does make sense. Just because others use it as a freebie does not mean Namco has to.

Sonic and other restaurants give everyone free mints but McDonalds isn't losing any customers over not doing that.

you're kidding right? All the other fighting games have frame data and it's free. Not all fighting games of course but most definitely NONE of them requires you to pay for frame data. It really is ridiculous that bandai did it.

[Might Be A FemMarine]

Originally posted by AGA | prinnyuber:

I need to question everyone about the reliance on integers. Believe me! The last thing you need to worry about in an online match is more math. Math is better on rpgs anyway.

Frame data is the difference between "poke with this, you can frame trap with it" and "don't use this raw, it's punishable."

[poop]

Originally posted by Marc.:

Originally posted by poop:

Who cares? What makes a game is not just copying what others do or checking off boxes on a feature list. There is no standard features list for Tekken games. Each one tries different things.

To Namco, in game frame data is just another thing they have to update when doing balances changes. Just more work for them to do, so charging for it does make sense. Just because others use it as a freebie does not mean Namco has to.

Sonic and other restaurants give everyone free mints but McDonalds isn't losing any customers over not doing that.

you're kidding right? All the other fighting games have frame data and it's free. Not all fighting games of course but most definitely NONE of them requires you to pay for frame data. It really is ridiculous that bandai did it.

I am only going so hard because they say it is literally impossible.
Also, they do charge you for it in other games, they just charge you for it up front and don't let you decide.
I will not buy anything from s3 or s4.