Why people complain about Unga Bunga ?

[Caliente]

Only male character defenders and TMM say "All girls in this game have unga bunga and have bad design". So hwoarang, Paul, Bryan, Feng, Kazuya,King,Law, Lee, Lei... They are not unga bunga?
Imagine hwoarang was Female. When i look tekken forums, %70 of threads is like " Remove X female char". Why Tekken community only love male characters ? Other games like DOA, league of legends, Resident Evil, Rainbow Six (Girls are hyped more) etc. People are not obsessed only man characters. But Tekken community obsessed about male chars. Why ? All of you insecure or incels IRL?

[Zako]

引用自 captain sex：

I see plenty of complaints about unga bunga male characters. It's just that a lot of the female characters are designed like that, and can be really irritating to fight.

exactly,looking at the roaster you can see that females have very high % of unga gameplay while for males its alot lower most non unga characters are males

[Zako]

引用自 りょーだ🀄：

Unga bunga litrally just means rushdown.
People misuse the term all the time.
Some call purely defensive moves unga bunga.
People usually refer to unga bunga as anything they lose to.
Most commonly it's just an excuse.

asuka,your main has basically no offense and is still considered unga by most people,cause she can get away with murder if you dont know the matchup and has some tools that you better know the properties of if you dont wanna die,if you dont know you can duck cancans even on hit you end up dealing with an insane panick tool that launches you and that is completely safe on block,but when you know the matchup asuka is barely an issue hence why she is considered unga,unga and cheese is literally just stuff people get murdered by before they realize that knowledge was all they needed.feng bunga is also not rushdown whatsoever its just him evading all your stuff and you having no idea on what to do against that.last part is correct tho,people call unga ♥♥♥♥ they cant deal with and are murdered by cause they get frustrated

[Zako]

引用自 りょーだ🀄：

引用自 Zako：

asuka,your main has basically no offense and is still considered unga by most people,cause she can get away with murder if you dont know the matchup and has some tools that you better know the properties of if you dont wanna die,if you dont know you can duck cancans even on hit you end up dealing with an insane panick tool that launches you and that is completely safe on block,but when you know the matchup asuka is barely an issue hence why she is considered unga,unga and cheese is literally just stuff people get murdered by before they realize that knowledge was all they needed.feng bunga is also not rushdown whatsoever its just him evading all your stuff and you having no idea on what to do against that

That's just people using the term inaccurately.
The main issue isn't cheese or "unga" which as a term doesn't even make sense applied to asuka, it's that people never stop for a second to think.
Asuka completely destroys people that play reckless without thinking.
Asuka is really good at letting people self destruct on her, which is why I always laugh when people whine about her being "unga bunga" or cheesy".
If you watch the matches, it's always them playing like complete monkeys, always pressing buttons, never thinking for a second.
If anything, it's the people that lose to asuka that play unga bunga, which is incidentally exactly why they lose to her.
And then ironically they call her unga bunga, cuz their own unga style gets snuffed by her.

unga/cheese/gimmicks is simply stuff that work untill you realize(with knowledge and experience) they are actually not that good.yes, mashers are the ones that get mauled the most by defensive cheese like asuka or feng but the asuka treatement is not reserved to them at all,even players that play fundamentally can get destroyed by feng evasion or asuka stuff when they have no idea on how to counter those things. good luck against asuka b3 and can cans if you dont know ♥♥♥♥ about those moves and cant punish them properly ,you will even need to be careful about when to dash forward lol and in return even when blocking you wont get nothing,not to mention crushing and whatnot.same with feng,even if you arent just mashing brainlessly you will get mauled with no matchup knowledge vs his bunga stuff

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

引用自 Zako：

引用自 C.C. アヌビス：

He does have a point tho.

Except Hwoarang, no-one complains anything about the male characters (we're not talking the 2 op ugly guys).

King has pretty much everything he needs and could easily get into top 10 strongest chars if DJ and Julia get some small nerfs, but beside me saying it, I'm seeing no-one say anything about him, heck, I've seen some defending everything King has, saying he needs it.

Feng was called "a very honest character" by some, yet he's the only character that has the potential to win without blocking, just by evadind and parrying.

Bryan can be pretty much dubbed Counterhit Launcher, The game - Tekken Edition, so you'd normally see a complain here or there. Same goes for 50-50 spam with Kazuya and Paul.

But you don't see that, you see them cry about Asuka, Kunimitsu, Lili, Anna, Xiaoyu and others.

Might be just a coincidence, but still, from I've seen so far, OP is right this time.

bro anti-bunga hate is not reserved to females at all its just that females have a higher % of unga characters(i can only think of kazumi as a female with close to no unga and maybe leo and lili too to an extent) hwoarang,lei,eddy,feng,noctis,ganryu can be very bunga but the majority of non bunga characters are male.people dont complain about king cause he is fine generally speaking.also bryan and 50/50 spam are not unga,unga is stuff you can only have a chance to counter once you know the matchup and even tho 50/50 spam is dumb its still easy and straight forward to understand how to beat it(duck if he hellsweep and stand if he does mid option) which is not the case for flamingo spam and the other bunga that you can keep eating all day long and not have any clue on what are your options against it,as for bryan, counter tools cant be unga as all you have to do is literally not press at the wrong time

My point that he is kinda right, at least for the Steam forums.

When's the last time someone complained about Feng? Or Eddy? Or Lei? Or Ganryu? Do people even know he exists?

But we have seen complaints about Anna, Nina, Zafina, Xiaoyu, Kuni, Asuka, and others.

The point wasn't that male chars don't have cheese, but that people rarely complain about them, and it's kinda true.

[Zako]

引用自 C.C. アヌビス：

引用自 Zako：

bro anti-bunga hate is not reserved to females at all its just that females have a higher % of unga characters(i can only think of kazumi as a female with close to no unga and maybe leo and lili too to an extent) hwoarang,lei,eddy,feng,noctis,ganryu can be very bunga but the majority of non bunga characters are male.people dont complain about king cause he is fine generally speaking.also bryan and 50/50 spam are not unga,unga is stuff you can only have a chance to counter once you know the matchup and even tho 50/50 spam is dumb its still easy and straight forward to understand how to beat it(duck if he hellsweep and stand if he does mid option) which is not the case for flamingo spam and the other bunga that you can keep eating all day long and not have any clue on what are your options against it,as for bryan, counter tools cant be unga as all you have to do is literally not press at the wrong time

My point that he is kinda right, at least for the Steam forums.

When's the last time someone complained about Feng? Or Eddy? Or Lei? Or Ganryu? Do people even know he exists?

But we have seen complaints about Anna, Nina, Zafina, Xiaoyu, Kuni, Asuka, and others.

The point wasn't that male chars don't have cheese, but that people rarely complain about them, and it's kinda true.

i dont know about that one chief,the bunga character that gets ♥♥♥♥ on the most is my man hwoarang imo and he has balls,but either way even if thats true it is certainly because they find the female bunga more frustrating not because the character is a female so this dude is crying for no reason,people hate bunga in general nobody cares what gender a character is lmao

[Zako]

引用自 りょーだ🀄：

unga/cheese and gimmick are not the same thing.

Unga is rushdown without thinking.
You know these players. Those without any defense like our friend menace, that only rely on rushing you down quickly in hope of overwhelming you so they don't ever have to defend.
That's unga bunga.

Cheese is just another word for "cheap". And back then was used for time scamming someone which was considered cheap by many back then.
So now it means usually doing whatever it takes to win and not adhering to the holy bible of fundamentals.
If necessary even by abusing lag online.

Gimmick is actually what you described.
Things with severe weakness that if lack of knowledge persists, can be abused brutally.
Just like the proper term gimmick, it's something that loses it's novelty very quickly.
Abusing gimmicks that your opponent doesn't know can also be considered cheesy.

So if anything, Asuka would fall into the gimmicky category, not the unga bunga one.

People don't understand these terms very well and just throw them out randomly, which is why so many people are now confused and just use them interchangeably for whatever they happen to be angry about this very second.
Definitions matter. What happens when someone just makes up their own definitions can be seen with Zag.

i dont know how you are making these claims and im not gonna ask you to give me all 3 definitions to prove your points cause i dont think the terms are that relevant in this instance(i think you got my point even tho i used unga instead of gimmicky) cause the thing is that all those 3 terms are used to describe a character negatively,unga,cheesy or gimmicky doesent change the fact it is incredibly annoying to fight those characters for people that dont know how to deal with them,i dont think asuka or feng being called gimmicky instead of unga or cheesy makes them anymore enjoyable to play againt for those people.people just need to lab these damn bunga/gimmicky/cheesy characters or whatever term you wanna use so they can stop getting murdered and thats the end of it as for op lmao using gender baits on a tekken forum as if anyone gave a sh*t what gender a fictional character is

[poop]

There is no unga bunga in Tekken at all.
Unga bunga is when both people do the exact same thing and the bigger person wins because physics.

[poop]

引用自 りょーだ🀄：

引用自 poop：

There is no unga bunga in Tekken at all.
Unga bunga is when both people do the exact same thing and the bigger person wins because physics.

That's the family guy definition lmao

Is there an earlier definition?

edit: okay you don't wanna look that up. you don't wanna know what the older definition is trust me.

[Zako]

引用自 りょーだ🀄：

Cheese can work regardless of your matchup knowledge, for example timer scam.
It's also applicable for every character in this game.
And if you find moves that your opponent doesn't know how to defeat, abusing them is the correct thing to do.
So gimmick is also applicable for every single character in this game.
And since every character can be played rushdown with (yes, even asuka with her bad offense), unga is also applicable to every character. Some are just more effective at it than others.
Unga bunga is more of a personal playstyle thing than a character thing.
People that play Unga Bunga will do that with ever character.

I agree that people just need to lab and get over it, but I don't agree that it's all that simple or that all of these terms are necessarily negative.
We just perceive them that way.
But what is negative about abusing something that works?
It's a winning strategy, not using it is foolish and weak.
That's why top level EU is weak at tekken, cuz we always stress about fundamentals too much and refuse to play unclean tekken even if it would win the game.
Not that fundamentals aren't important, they are.
Ling players take this to the other extreme where they refuse to acknowledge that fundamentals are necessarily to become a good player at all.
But I digress.

It's all about perspective.

whats wrong is that most people that use those things(call them how you like,unga, gimmicks)cannot play otherwise,which means they RELY on those things to steal a win from the opponents,so it would initially appear as he did the right thing and whatever but then the dude that played "legit" and got murdered by stuff he simply didnt know how to deal with labs the character and now all of a sudden he smokes him like there is no tomorrow and the bunger/cheesy/gimmicky dude doesent have any clue on what to do next.i dont like that type of playstyle cause its fake,you dont rely on your own skill to win but rather you rely on your opponent lack of knowledge.the correct thing to do is always fundamentals untill you face someone that is as fundamentally solid as you and thats when high level mind games begin and where what may seem as bunga is actually not.playing unclean cause thats the only way you can steal a win from your unknwoledgable opponent is very different from doing somethign "dirty" like mashing a counter hit at - frames cause you have a read on the opponent which is on the same page.an example would be playing very fundamentally and then when you are on - you know that the solid opponent you are facing may delay his hits and not collect his + frames immeditely to catch you off guard to which you reply with a counter hit even at - frames to catch him off guard aswell.to put it simply,doing something unclean cause you have a read is very nice and actually high iq cause you put yourself at risk but you know its the right thing to do in that moment,what i dont like is when players go crazy on you and rely on dirty stuff and then think that what they did was right and correct and its all your fault for not knowing how to deal with it,but then get smoked once you lab their b*llshit cause you were always better than them fundamentally but they just killed you with fake sh*t

[Zako]

引用自 りょーだ🀄：

I don't agree with that mindset.
While I practice fundamentals alot myself, even pick up characters specifically for the sake of improving my fundamentals, I see nothing wrong with doing what it takes to win.
People that obsess over clean play tend to forget what the game is actually about.
And that's winning.
If stuff is fake, then it won't pay off in the long run. By abusing stuff that obviously doesn't work you will lose on the averages.
But when you consistently find the things your opponents can't deal with, then that's skill.
Fighting games are about doing what your opponent doesn't like.
Annoying them so to speak.

I did that to a steve recently that rage quit on me in the end.
I quickly realized the guy is rather emotional and he probably felt like my character is cheap or whatever.
So as you do with asuka vs steve, I use alot of parry cuz it's pretty good vs steve.
It gets him rather pissed, I can tell by how he play more aggressively and starts playing faster in general.
Eventually he starts to chicken me, probably expect me to stop the parry spam now.
But to me that was the signal to use parry even more, simply to keep him focused on chicken, so he can't focus on the rest of the game.
So when he realized I don't care about his chickens, and how he'd still eat alot of parries cuz he couldn't completely focus on chickening every move, he tilted harder and harder.
At that point I started doing even more annoying ♥♥♥♥. Way more b3, stealing turns at -9, blatantly whiff in his face etc etc. The more he tilted the more I got away with until at some point I could just do i16 moves on -9 and he wouldn't challenge.

Now if you look at these matches from an outside perspective, it's me playing like a complete scrub and him just tilting hard cuz of it.
But it was way deeper than that.
The key is that it's not a habit. I can play awfully clean, I practiced this alooooot.
But why would I do that when the actual winning strategy against this guy was to tilt him?
Sure I could have played super clean and maybe won too, but it would have been a much bigger struggle than aiming to tilt my opponent and having him self destruct.

How is this not a legit strategy? This is exactly why EU is weak, cuz we can't accept anything but the cleanest of the cleanest play as legit.
Everyone else is fake.
To me it's only a problem if you can't stop playing that way even if it doesn't work.
At that point it's a bad habit. And that's ling players in a nutshell. They can't play clean even if they tried.

parries and stuff arent even the same thing to me cause all you have to do is literally go low or wait and whiff punish,what is wrong imo is relying on your opponent lack of knowledge,you are basically beating him because he doesent know your character and you are using that to win instead of beating him with fundamentals and skills,if thats ok with you thats fine(and i still think thats on you for not labbing at the end of the day) but i would never be satisfied with knowing i beat someone just cause he didnt know ♥♥♥♥ about my b*llshit and knowing that if he actually took the time to lab my stuff he would murder me which shows that all those wins were fake/temporary/precarious and you are winning on a condition which is that he doesent lab your nonsense.as for your example thats on him for not using lows when he is +6 to beat both your b3 and parries but obviously i didnt see the match so it could have been deeper than that

[poop]

Not buying that. Even MK1 startes off every game with "There is no knowledge that is not power."
If you opponent is losing due to lack of knowledge then they deserve to lose. Badly.

[Zako]

引用自 poop：

Not buying that. Even MK1 startes off every game with "There is no knowledge that is not power."
If you opponent is losing due to lack of knowledge then they deserve to lose. Badly.

you should mention people so we know who you are talking to and replying to which comment in particular?are you replying to my last comment?

[poop]

You can't be serious with that...

[Zako]

引用自 poop：

You can't be serious with that...

i just suggested that to be more accurate,i posted many comments that go against what you said so i know you talking to me but what comment you didnt like?either way in my last comment i explained why i think what i think so in case you are replying to the previous comments and havent read the last then tell me what is it you dont agree with and we can discuss it,you dont agree that winning simply cause the opponent doesent know your character is hardly satisfying?

[poop]

But that is their fault, not mine.