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I think it may be quite good to have it posted here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHur59-dhCo
Anyway....
I dont even get what some of you people want. Do you want it removed? Then the game will feel extremly stiff. Not good.
Do you want to just be able to spam b,b,b,b,b.... and cancel a backdash right into another? You're aware thats literally the only way to make it any easier because the cancel is already a single input (d/b; but it works with u or d as well if thats easier for you).
So, what is it gonna be?
Let's quickly review their two main excuses:
- if the level of movement KBD offers is intended, then all players should get to do it without effort.
- if the level of movement is not intended, as the normal back dash has a "cool down", then KBD needs to go.
They want easier movement but they don't need it. There's lots of people in TGP and TGO without it.
Their two main "solutions" are:
- give a better back dash to people than they already have, but keep the original as the best option.
- - issue with this point: there already are easier ways to do it, and players like JDCR use them. If the easier version is remotely good, it will simply make the better one useless, while if it's useless itself, there's no reason for it. We already have people asking if they can get to TGP or play tournaments without it. Add an easier one and the question will change to "can I use the easier version to get to TGO or play tournaments?", and if the answer is yes, they won't explore the rest of the things you can do with the movement system, while if it the answer is no, they will either just move to KBD or we see a rerun of this thread.
- just make b,b,b,b,b work
- - issue with this point: if you haven't noticed, having that cool down actually helps with moves that have a b input. For example, one of Alisa's best whiff punisher's is b4,4, but that one would be hard to do if you remove the cool down period. Just look at using dash into moves with f input. One of Alisa's combos as example, ff3,4,4 > dash > f2 > d/f1 > 1 > u/f3,2 for 69 damage. If you're not good in your execution, you will get wr2 instead of dash > f2. Now, while there are no back running moves, the issue will rise from the game treating the b from b4 as another input for a backdash and either give another backdash or restrict the moves, making whiff punishers much more needlessly hard to do. Being able to b,b > punish is much more important than doing 2 backdashes in a row.
So the issue arises from, there's no point for an easier one as it will either be too broken, and I recall reading on the threads OP posted earlier that that happened in one of the previous games, or it will be useless and unused by anyone who actually wants to get good at the game, thus making a change to make the game easier just for the sake of making it easier, or the change not only breaks the cancel system as it changes the way it works, but can make whiff punishers needlessly cumbersome, which again, whiff punishing is more important that backdashing twice.
The other excuse of "think of the new players" is also a garbage argument because it has a clause, "think of the new players only if they agree with me, ignore them if they don't"
And lastly, the "it will help everyone", but, again, depending how it's done, it would either hinder good players by messing with whiff punishers, which again, for the 3rd time, are more important, as its pointless to use a backdash if you can't profit from it, or just be a noob trap and cause more problems for the scrubs you claim you want to help.
But you have easier versions, there's 4 total versions:
- the original
- reverse wave dash
- qcb
- side step cancel
There are already few characters that have it but it would cool to other characters get it a proper one
kbd input is easier than wave dash on pad
The only argument i got against it that its "disgusting"
I don't really see why regular backdashing can't be buffed a bit. Perhaps someone could enlighten me on this specifically?
I mentioned it twice.
Why not give those comments a read?
Already did this you ignored it with hand waving. I get you and others in this thread like Zag don't quite understand fighting games and how they play but at least try and pay attention once in a while.
If you're using 15 comments per page, it's the first comment on page 39.
Thank you, it was a good read. So you think that the regular back dash as it is is perfect in this iteration of Tekken? How do you feel about movement in Tekken 5 and Tag 2? (if you played those).
A easy way to understand this is with other fighting games who use these complex motions and inputs in a less esoteric manner. Lets look at Street Fighter and its motion inputs.
Ryu's fireball has a Quarter Circle Forward you have to input for it to come out. Now this isn't hard to perform and for players who don't understand why it exists might come to the conclusion that its just an arbitrary motion. But the motion adds risk to the move that wouldn't exist if it was a single button input. For example Blocking in SF requires you to hold back or down+back depending on the move property. But Ryus fire ball cannot be throwed while blocking you are forced to put your self at a disadvantage while using it. Its also a strength because you can now use the knowledge that your opponent is looking for your buffered inputs to bait fake fire balls. You might see this a bunch in SF matches when people look like they are tea bagging the ground in neutral. It adds complexity and nuance simply by existing that would go out the window if you could just press 1 button.
A good example of this is Rising Thunder it understood this, it made specials a 1 button input but as a product they had to restrict the specials with cool downs so they wouldn't break the game.
KBDs are in a similar situation, the input is complex not for the sake of being complex but to create failure points and situations where its not the end all be all. If you allowed back dashes an easier simpler input to deal with things the KBD deals with your going to have knock on effects on the rest of the game.