Gonna need advice from ONLY LILI MAINS

[Caliente]

Any frame trap moves ? Qcf 3+4 +6 on block but ub + 1 a lot of range issues. Should i play lili defensive right

[Sergey.]

Forget about flowcharts.
They can be useful, until you play against people who know about them, or who adapt quickly.

It's never about finding a "secret technique" or "super" move that beats people, but more about movement, poking, punishing, reading and outplaying your opponent.


If you insist on examples with what to do on plus frames, here are some options, depending on your read, and then why it is bad "learning it":

1. Does he press buttons? You can backdash/sidestep and whiff punish, or do a fast mid like f+1+2, which gives you guaranteed mini combo on CH (SS+3, dash, 3_d+3), hopkick and so on...
2. Sidestep and trying to whiff punish you? f+3 will CH launch him for a nice combo.
3. Block or backdash? d+3_ff+4, or keep pressuring him with d/f+3, qcf+3,4 and pokes.

And here are examples for what your opponent can do to counter it, because you became too predictable with your flowchart:

1. Powercrush / Rage Art.
2. Sidestep block or duck the qcf+3+4 and launch you.
3. Low parrying, hopkicking or sidestepping your lows.

[pablonesmrtelny]

qcf+3+4
d/f+3
http://rbnorway.org/lili-t7-frames/

Lili is kinda trap character. Majority of Lili mains are trapped in flowchart abuse with zero movement or neutral gameplay. It does grant you free purple/blue ranks but it is incredibly frustrating in that every time you meet someone who knows the matchup and has decent neutral - absolutely destroys flowchart Lilis.

Tekken then becomes kinda a chore to play since there is just nothing to do. Such Lili players really don't stand a chance in those scenarios.

The sooner the player realize that Lili should be played more or less like Kazumi with heavy poking - the better for him. The best attribute of Lili is her movement.

[Caliente]

Originally posted by SergeyG:

Forget about flowcharts.
They can be useful, until you play against people who know about them, or who adapt quickly.

It's never about finding a "secret technique" or "super" move that beats people, but more about movement, poking, punishing, reading and outplaying your opponent.


If you insist on examples with what to do on plus frames, here are some options, depending on your read, and then why it is bad "learning it":

1. Does he press buttons? You can backdash/sidestep and whiff punish, or do a fast mid like f+1+2, which gives you guaranteed mini combo on CH (SS+3, dash, 3_d+3), hopkick and so on...
2. Sidestep and trying to whiff punish you? f+3 will CH launch him for a nice combo.
3. Block or backdash? d+3_ff+4, or keep pressuring him with d/f+3, qcf+3,4 and pokes.

And here are examples for what your opponent can do to counter it, because you became too predictable with your flowchart:

1. Powercrush / Rage Art.
2. Sidestep block or duck the qcf+3+4 and launch you.
3. Low parrying, hopkicking or sidestepping your lows.

Thanks for advice, i should play more aggressive imo and need to improve my movement

[Caliente]

Originally posted by pablonesmrtelny:

qcf+3+4
d/f+3
http://rbnorway.org/lili-t7-frames/

Lili is kinda trap character. Majority of Lili mains are trapped in flowchart abuse with zero movement or neutral gameplay. It does grant you free purple/blue ranks but it is incredibly frustrating in that every time you meet someone who knows the matchup and has decent neutral - absolutely destroys flowchart Lilis.

Tekken then becomes kinda a chore to play since there is just nothing to do. Such Lili players really don't stand a chance in those scenarios.

The sooner the player realize that Lili should be played more or less like Kazumi with heavy poking - the better for him. The best attribute of Lili is her movement.

I should increase my movement i guess but other characters always have frame traps and insanely fast homing mid moves. Lili's EVERY MOVE are steppable. Thats really suck. Also Lili's frames are TERRIBLE. Her BT d+3 is - 17. BT d+3,4 -13 and this move can't land any combo. Why should i use this thing? Lili has so many ♥♥♥♥ frame moves like this

[Sergey.]

Didn't mean that you should play more aggressive, I just gave examples why a basic flowchart won't help you.

Also being too aggressive means you are more vulnerable to get countered or whiff punished, which is never a good idea.

That is where movement and poking come into play and the mind game begin.

[Kris Allen]

Lili has pretty good punishment too! f2,3 is amazing and i punish long range wiffs with df 3+4 alot

[Caliente]

Originally posted by Ryoda:

df1 after qcf3+4.
Your goal is to make em stop stepping, not get massive combo damage.

i will try that

[Caliente]

Originally posted by Kris Allen:

Lili has pretty good punishment too! f2,3 is amazing and i punish long range wiffs with df 3+4 alot

but its 13 frame punish i remember ? Range is very good but its also -14 or -15 if that move under -13 frame punish

[Sneep]

The closest thing you have is f1+2 into a guaranteed ff4 on counterhit, this will demolish lower-level players. Higher level players will sidestep f1+2 and launch you.

Even df3 into df1 can be stepped and launched by the opponent.

The opponent always has options after you are +block. That's why Lili is actually pretty hard and high iq at higher levels if they know the matchup. You have to test their reaction with one or two df3 / qcf3+4 and then do the counterplay to what they are doing. Lili does not have a safe followup that beats all options your opponent has, you're always taking a risk if you do anything but a backdash.



For example:

You do a few df3 and notice that they respect your frames > you start doing df3 into ff4 into more mixups
After you did a few df3 into FF4, they stop respecting you and try to interrupt you > you step / backdash and launch them
after you sidestep-launched their attempted interrupt, they may respect you again and you do another df3 into ff4 into mixup. Which may get you low parried this time.

But this really changes with every opponent

[Caliente]

Originally posted by Lil' Lili:

The closest thing you have is f1+2 into a guaranteed ff4 on counterhit, this will demolish lower-level players. Higher level players will sidestep f1+2 and launch you.

Even df3 into df1 can be stepped and launched by the opponent.

The opponent always has options after you are +block. That's why Lili is actually pretty hard and high iq at higher levels if they know the matchup. You have to test their reaction with one or two df3 / qcf3+4 and then do the counterplay to what they are doing. Lili does not have a safe followup that beats all options your opponent has, you're always taking a risk if you do anything but a backdash.



For example:

You do a few df3 and notice that they respect your frames > you start doing df3 into ff4 into more mixups
After you did a few df3 into FF4, they stop respecting you and try to interrupt you > you step / backdash and launch them
after you sidestep-launched their attempted interrupt, they may respect you again and you do another df3 into ff4 into mixup

But this really changes with every opponent

Thanks for all these infos.

[Sergey.]

Originally posted by Iosefka:

Originally posted by Kris Allen:

Lili has pretty good punishment too! f2,3 is amazing and i punish long range wiffs with df 3+4 alot

but its 13 frame punish i remember ? Range is very good but its also -14 or -15 if that move under -13 frame punish

It is 12f, not 13f, so it is used as her main 12-14 frames punisher (aside from a few exceptions).
Though it is launch punishable at -15f, so I rarely use it outside of block punish.
If I am not sure that the move I had blocked is -12f or more, I'd rather try a simple f+2 (or sometimes 1+2), than taking a risk of getting launched.

For whiff, I prefer using 3,1 which is slower only by 3 frames, not launch punishable, it is a mid, has better range (the way to punish Deathfist and Demon Uppercut on block), and wall bounce > wall splat.
When you have the frames, iWS 2 is her best whiff punisher in my opinion, and is one of the reasons I like playing her.

[Kris Allen]

Originally posted by Iosefka:

Originally posted by Kris Allen:

Lili has pretty good punishment too! f2,3 is amazing and i punish long range wiffs with df 3+4 alot

but its 13 frame punish i remember ? Range is very good but its also -14 or -15 if that move under -13 frame punish

-12 punish