Sorry kids, Tekken has NOT always been about juggling

[Elven Plot Armour]

Hi all, this is not an argument against juggling.
Juggling has been a long standing part of Tekken that divides the community and it has many good points, the majority around the 'risk/reward' nature of the game system.
However, from the perspective of a long term player, I feel the younger crowd really need to be informed about the environment surrounding the earlier games and how it was played.

You need to stop saying Tekken has always been about juggles.

WHEN YOU POST A T1 CLIP FROM 2009 IT CLEARLY SHOWS T6 WAS YOUR FIRST TEKKEN GAME!

Just because you find a RECENT video of juggles in the old game doesnt' mean that's how the vast majority of gamers played. Yes, technically it's been "IN" the game since T1, but it was never intended as 'the way to play' and was honestly, I believe, an exploit in many cases. Remember games weren't patchable after release at this time so the first release was all we got, regardless of exploits,

In the arcades, did you see the 'demo' of characters juggling each other in Tekken 1, 2 or 3?
NO! Because the cat and mouse poke game is what defined the genre back then.
Tekken was famous for having 'mid' hits that couldn't be crouched, the ability 'get up' uniquely and move in a 3D environment (though this became more of a thing in T3).

In the 1990's and we had gaming magazines and they did 'NOT' have long mentions of juggling - not like what we see today. Strategy was around the basic movesets and 10 string combos in the movelist was about as mean as things got.
We live in a different age now where the dominant tactics are broadcast for all those to see.
We live in an age where we can WATCH VIDEOS of the best in the world compete (not just read about it).

We now live in an age where you type in your character's name and find the best combos and tutorials - every player has the best info at their fingers and gone are the days where you had to work out your tactics to test them at a live tournament (where you'd see the nasty combos appear).

There was no internet play and these 'insane juggles' were never even visable unless people witnessed competitive players. This is evident that "long time" players are coming back to Tekken, getting juggled to death online and thinking "This isn't how I remember Tekken!?"
As time has gone on, the better educational tools have allowed even casual players to deal incredible damage from a single blow to the point where even haters must acknowledge that juggling is NOW a big part of Tekken. Why? Because the majority of casual players educate themselves on how to do it and use it regularly.


Conclusion:
Anybody who actually owned a PS1 and played Tekken does not remember juggling people for more than a couple of hits on the way to the ground. The 'juggles' from the early games were not how the majority of people played and these large combos are news to many who played these games at the time they were prevalent.

* Correct = Juggling is a long standing core mechanic in the modern titles
* Incorrect = Since T1, Tekken has always been fundamentally about launchers and juggles.

[Elven Plot Armour]

Stoner, you're a legend. Honestly appreciate the classy response.
I think we're both on the same page. The way Tekken was marketed was a 'realistic' alternative to MK and SF but it has grown to a more arcade flavour.

If you say those guides were available in the day I do believe you. But even then, without demo videos it would have required a committed/well versed player to learn and understand.
You would have to "attend" a live tournament back then to see these juggles performed... and that's assuming you could find one as there was no way these were televised.

In this day and age, you press "online" and you'll be juggled in minutes.
Juggling has 'evolved' to become a key part of Tekken 7.

I'm actually not having a huge amount of issue with juggling as I use it myself. Those who hit me with launchers are honestly just better than me and the thing I love about Tekken is nothing 100% safe. Reality is you need to fight fire with fire. If you're not willing to do that then you're best off sticking with T3.

[VVV]

R4yne eredeti hozzászólása:

Stoner, you're a legend. Honestly appreciate the classy response.
I think we're both on the same page. The way Tekken was marketed was a 'realistic' alternative to MK and SF but it has grown to a more arcade flavour.

If you say those guides were available in the day I do believe you. But even then, without demo videos it would have required a committed/well versed player to learn and understand.
You would have to "attend" a live tournament back then to see these juggles performed... and that's assuming you could find one as there was no way these were televised.

In this day and age, you press "online" and you'll be juggled in minutes.
Juggling has 'evolved' to become a key part of Tekken 7.

I'm actually not having a huge amount of issue with juggling as I use it myself. Those who hit me with launchers are honestly just better than me and the thing I love about Tekken is nothing 100% safe. Reality is you need to fight fire with fire. If you're not willing to do that then you're best off sticking with T3.

Fight fire with fire indeed... Thanks bud!

[Malfury]

S T O N E R eredeti hozzászólása:

21 Year Tekken vet here. Here's a Kazuya/Heihachi guide posted on Gamefaqs during TEKKEN 1: https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/366755-tekken/faqs/4251

And here's a simple combo FAQ for the same game:
https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/366755-tekken/faqs/4252

I'm not even going to go into Mist Step -> Wind God Fist -> Twin Pistons -> Twin Pistons from Tekken 2 since this appears to be a non-legit juggle according to your logic.

Please take note, these guides were posted in 96 and were the same ones I studied back in the day. All still there in Gamefaqs if you would like to check.

Don't give us vets a bad rep. I'm in there in the trenches exchanging KBDs and Wavedashes into PEWGFs with these younger cats and having some of the best gaming I've ever had at 41. If your game aint absolutely terrifying by now out of sheer experience from the 90's up to Tekken 7, sadly it might be time to move on.

Clearly, us passionate players knew what we were doing back then, which is no different from what we do now.


Learn, adapt, Doryaa.



EDIT: take a look at this gem OP - https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/366755-tekken/faqs/4250

Brings back memories.. guides on gamefaqs were my life back then when I was in middle school and I remember the Kazuya/Heihachi guide (Hei and Michelle was my main until Ling was introduced).

[Trizz]

git good and dont get launched....

[VVV]

Malfury eredeti hozzászólása:

S T O N E R eredeti hozzászólása:

21 Year Tekken vet here. Here's a Kazuya/Heihachi guide posted on Gamefaqs during TEKKEN 1: https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/366755-tekken/faqs/4251

And here's a simple combo FAQ for the same game:
https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/366755-tekken/faqs/4252

I'm not even going to go into Mist Step -> Wind God Fist -> Twin Pistons -> Twin Pistons from Tekken 2 since this appears to be a non-legit juggle according to your logic.

Please take note, these guides were posted in 96 and were the same ones I studied back in the day. All still there in Gamefaqs if you would like to check.

Don't give us vets a bad rep. I'm in there in the trenches exchanging KBDs and Wavedashes into PEWGFs with these younger cats and having some of the best gaming I've ever had at 41. If your game aint absolutely terrifying by now out of sheer experience from the 90's up to Tekken 7, sadly it might be time to move on.

Clearly, us passionate players knew what we were doing back then, which is no different from what we do now.


Learn, adapt, Doryaa.



EDIT: take a look at this gem OP - https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/366755-tekken/faqs/4250

Brings back memories.. guides on gamefaqs were my life back then when I was in middle school and I remember the Kazuya/Heihachi guide (Hei and Michelle was my main until Ling was introduced).

Old school! The guides and FAQs on Gamefaqs for Tekken 2 and 3 were simply obscene with data back in the day. I printed those out and put together a 2 inch book just for Tekken 3 alone lol.

[Matt]

Guides on Gamefaqs were one source, but honestly back in the T1/T2 days I got most of my info (especially juggles) from the Tekken Zaibatsu forums. They were the best place to figure out what was really going on with the game, what the characters could really do, and who some of the best players were. I remember reading Markman posts in the TZ King forums when T2 dropped in arcades before the console release.

[nssBoB]

Mindless ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ eredeti hozzászólása:

I really dont understand what it is your trying to say. The only facts i gave you were tekken three had combos and back before internet existed people learned songs off of vinyls. I probably shouldnt have tried to relate the two but I did anyways, internet was a babe at one point. If you dont think thats a fact then your too young.

you also said: "tekken 1 and 2 did not" despite the fact i posted a picture of BOOK made by namco for tekken 2 that teaches you juggle combos. how does that have anything to do with internet?

[VVV]

matthewblackburn eredeti hozzászólása:

Guides on Gamefaqs were one source, but honestly back in the T1/T2 days I got most of my info (especially juggles) from the Tekken Zaibatsu forums. They were the best place to figure out what was really going on with the game, what the characters could really do, and who some of the best players were. I remember reading Markman posts in the TZ King forums when T2 dropped in arcades before the console release.

Tekken Zaibatsu most definitely! I still rememer Markman's stuff.. printed those out as well..Good times.

[Malfury]

nssBoB eredeti hozzászólása:

Mindless ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ eredeti hozzászólása:

I really dont understand what it is your trying to say. The only facts i gave you were tekken three had combos and back before internet existed people learned songs off of vinyls. I probably shouldnt have tried to relate the two but I did anyways, internet was a babe at one point. If you dont think thats a fact then your too young.

you also said: "tekken 1 and 2 did not" despite the fact i posted a picture of BOOK made by namco for tekken 2 that teaches you juggle combos. how does that have anything to do with internet?

Never head of TZ back then, I just happened to hear about Gamefaqs from a friend, because my friend was looking up guides on Xmen Vs Street Fighter back then when it first came out.

[Matt]

Been stealing strats from Lil' Majin for 20 years. I really don't get these kind of posts. What do people think Mishimas were doing after they hit you with WGF (electrics didn't turn up until T3) or twin pistons?

[Matt]

I spent forever in practice mode in T3 trying to land Jin's 3x EWGF. It seems quaint now that Kaz can get 6 or something ridiculous..

[VVV]

matthewblackburn eredeti hozzászólása:

I spent forever in practice mode in T3 trying to land Jin's 3x EWGF

Spent most if not all of Tekken 3 salty because Kazuya was nerfed and became Jin. But I learned Jin's EWGF -> b,f+2,1,d+2 -> b,f+2,1,2 and recovered eventually... lol

[Matt]

Ha, that's how I felt in T4 about "New Jin" (I realize Jin was still good, but I didn't want to have to learn him all over again). At least I still had Lei then though. :(

[Matt]

S T O N E R eredeti hozzászólása:

matthewblackburn eredeti hozzászólása:

I spent forever in practice mode in T3 trying to land Jin's 3x EWGF

Spent most if not all of Tekken 3 salty because Kazuya was nerfed to Jin. But I learned Jin's EWGF -> b,f+2,1,2 -> b,f+2,1,d+2 and recovered eventually... lol

I think I used EWGF, b,f2,1,d2, ff2 myself. Might be time to pull out the old T5 disk and try that one out on the T3 arcade port.

[VVV]

matthewblackburn eredeti hozzászólása:

S T O N E R eredeti hozzászólása:

Spent most if not all of Tekken 3 salty because Kazuya was nerfed to Jin. But I learned Jin's EWGF -> b,f+2,1,2 -> b,f+2,1,d+2 and recovered eventually... lol

I think I used EWGF, b,f2,1,d2, ff2 myself. Might be time to pull out the old T5 disk and try that one out on the T3 arcade port.

Sorry my bad, it was b,f2,1,d2 ->b,f2,1,2 lol