The REAL tier list

[Irigy Kutya]

This is exactly what I always told about tier lists. Pro level stuff doesn't really apply to CASUALS who play ONLINE. It's almost like a different game. One can never achieve the level of players who do this like a full time job and of course competing offline (or on 5 bar, stable korean servers). So saying X character is S tier because some pros won tournaments with it, and Y is ♥♥♥♥ tier because you don't see it on tournaments doesn't really mean anything for us.

And I also think game design should adapt to the casual needs beause they are the big part of the player base, and the 5 million copy sold is not sold for the few pro players, so money comes from us, not from the pros. So if 90% of the players has an issue with a certain character, that is bad game design, and it doesn't matter pros can overcome it. But that's another discussion I guess.

https://youtu.be/8Wo3Xg1OySE

[J.S.D]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/f2oaer/sadness_bro/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


Found it.

SEATEK The_LEFTY の投稿を引用：

Me? I don't think so.

I meant hiden

[Irigy Kutya]

Jarl ThickDog の投稿を引用：

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/f2oaer/sadness_bro/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


Found it.

SEATEK The_LEFTY の投稿を引用：

Me? I don't think so.

I meant hiden

:D Haha, yeah, I was fed up with the flash spam, but anyway, I very rarely ragequit anymore, and I want to reduce it to zero. I played with this guy a few days ago, he was with Kuma, and did all the cheesy, gimmick ♥♥♥♥, but I still played the match. So that's some progress I guess. :D

And on the other hand, I really don't like streamers, and twitch in the name is pure cringe in my opinion. I don't like the fact they use the match with me for showcasing for some clicks and cents. But that's another story.

[J.S.D]

Hidan の投稿を引用：

Jarl ThickDog の投稿を引用：

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/f2oaer/sadness_bro/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


Found it.


I meant hiden

:D Haha, yeah, I was fed up with the flash spam, but anyway, I very rarely ragequit anymore, and I want to reduce it to zero. I played with this guy a few days ago, he was with Kuma, and did all the cheesy, gimmick ♥♥♥♥, but I still played the match. So that's some progress I guess. :D

That's the right kind of attitude

[Lazaar]

This tier list makes a lot of sense. A lot of the characters you see people complain about are not very good at actually winning matches with such as Hwoarang, Law, some dude was complaining about King. What's happening is that a lot of the characters that have extremely simple movesets and require very little execution are placed high on this tierlist whereas characters witch complex gameplans and high execution requirements placing low because most players just aren't that successful with them when they can do much better with the likes of Alisa, Lucky Chloe, Claudio etc. And some of these characters also do well because so few people know the matchup like most DLC characters or the bears and even Gigas who is kind of trash does pretty well online because you just don't see him that often. Seeing Xiaoyu so low was really fascinating. She may have a lot of gimmicky stuff but the thing is that you won't get very far with them. She has a ♥♥♥♥ ton of moves and lot of her fundamental stuff is very weak. There's a lot of decision making going on with her and you can't just do blatant, obvious flowcharts and expect her to carry you through ranks.

[Molle_Kontrolle]

This Tier List is heavily distorted by three things:

1) Newer Characters have an unusual high winning rate because people have not learned the matchup yet.

2) Characters that attract pro or high level players have a higher winning rate than they should have (Mishimas, Bryan, Lee etc.)

3) Playing with super easy characters like Noctis, Katarina or Leroy will give you more wins than any other chars in the beginning. If newbies play them until they start losing and the drop online play completely, that will affect this Tier list.

This Tier list therefore serves as a severly flawed indicator at best and must be taken with a huge grain of salt. This Tier list is not REAL as OP claims by any means.

[UncleRamen]

One other thing to note is that the list is also very affected by play rates. Characters like Jin and Kazuya who are supposedly the 'main characters' tend to attract a lot of players. So when more players play them, their win rate also drop greatly as they are played a lot by lesser skilled players as well who may be casuals who do not put too much effort into improving.

The other characters who have super low win rates also tend to be legacy characters who have a following be it pros or casuals. But generally, the bigger the following, the more casuals there will be.

It is a lot like the case of Ezreal in League of Legends, often hovering around 47%-48% win rate. Extremely popular due to design, pros consider him strong but due to his high skill cap, common players rarely find him as effective.

[Froz7y]

There is conflicting data though. Kazuya,Bryan and Jin have very high number of high ranks yet when you look at the win rate, the highest win rate should get the high ranks right?

The data is a bit confusing, does it only represent the green ranks? what about number of players? For example the win rate would be higher because there are less number of people playing them and dedicating time and effort than those who just drop and go for high tiers?

In this case you would see more people losing playing Jin,KAzuya and Bryan because thats where the majority of people put their time and effort. There are so few Kuma and Lucky Chloe online, especially when going pass red ranks..

Theres also the issue of green and teal ranks, are easy characters tend to have higher win rate? a lot of data is missing to make any solid conclusion.

[pablonesmrtelny]

Midknight Battler の投稿を引用：

There is conflicting data though. Kazuya,Bryan and Jin have very high number of high ranks yet when you look at the win rate, the highest win rate should get the high ranks right?

The data is a bit confusing, does it only represent the green ranks? what about number of players? For example the win rate would be higher because there are less number of people playing them and dedicating time and effort than those who just drop and go for high tiers?

In this case you would see more people losing playing Jin,KAzuya and Bryan because thats where the majority of people put their time and effort. There are so few Kuma and Lucky Chloe online, especially when going pass red ranks..

Theres also the issue of green and teal ranks, are easy characters tend to have higher win rate? a lot of data is missing to make any solid conclusion.

1) It is the exact opposite. The mains have generally lower winrate (even though they might be at a higher rank - this obviously has virtually no effect on winrate) so if this tier list shows anything - the chars people are dedicated to should be at the bottom.

2) Winrate is independent on the number of players. Its a percentage. You can have winrate 50% from 100 matches or 50% from 1000 matches and its still 50%.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Yeah. This isnt a tier list that should be recommended.

[Froz7y]

pablonesmrtelny の投稿を引用：

Midknight Battler の投稿を引用：

There is conflicting data though. Kazuya,Bryan and Jin have very high number of high ranks yet when you look at the win rate, the highest win rate should get the high ranks right?

The data is a bit confusing, does it only represent the green ranks? what about number of players? For example the win rate would be higher because there are less number of people playing them and dedicating time and effort than those who just drop and go for high tiers?

In this case you would see more people losing playing Jin,KAzuya and Bryan because thats where the majority of people put their time and effort. There are so few Kuma and Lucky Chloe online, especially when going pass red ranks..

Theres also the issue of green and teal ranks, are easy characters tend to have higher win rate? a lot of data is missing to make any solid conclusion.

1) It is the exact opposite. The mains have generally lower winrate (even though they might be at a higher rank - this obviously has virtually no effect on winrate) so if this tier list shows anything - the chars people are dedicated to should be at the bottom.

2) Winrate is independent on the number of players. Its a percentage. You can have winrate 50% from 100 matches or 50% from 1000 matches and its still 50%.

To say you can reach higher ranks and have more players playing the character = because of lower win rate?

It still doesnt make sense.. how can you get higher ranks by losing more? you wont attain enough points. Also to factor in, Jin,Kazuya and Bryan are one of the most often played characters. Are the numbers contributing to the low win rate? Its difficult to form any context to this list..

[pablonesmrtelny]

Midknight Battler の投稿を引用：

pablonesmrtelny の投稿を引用：

1) It is the exact opposite. The mains have generally lower winrate (even though they might be at a higher rank - this obviously has virtually no effect on winrate) so if this tier list shows anything - the chars people are dedicated to should be at the bottom.

2) Winrate is independent on the number of players. Its a percentage. You can have winrate 50% from 100 matches or 50% from 1000 matches and its still 50%.

To say you can reach higher ranks and have more players playing the character = because of lower win rate?

It still doesnt make sense.. how can you get higher ranks by losing more? you wont attain enough points. Also to factor in, Jin,Kazuya and Bryan are one of the most often played characters. Are the numbers contributing to the low win rate? Its difficult to form any context to this list..

You won't lose more. You win/lose the same in ranked once you get to the sweetspot where you are even with the opposition. Then it is not about character but about you improving.

It is the journey TO "your" rank that matters.

For your main the journey to "your" rank is just a little fraction of your total matches with the character BUT for your subs the free wins on the way to "your" rank can make up for more significant number.

For example if you are a Ruler and you pick up new char you chew through orange and red ranks and hit a wall in purple - play some more matches and stop. You can have winrate 70% and be on similar rank as your main.

If you are ruler with your main you spend hundreds of matches sloooooooooooowly improving through months and years and you will end up having winrate close to 50% whether you are warrior or a Fujin. There is no real "chew through people until it gets real" phase which affects it.

I have it this for my chars at least.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

This is logical. You definitely bring skills from other characters or previous tekken games to the table.

[in memoriam of Sharky]

"Gigas is A tier because nobody knows how to deal with him.... nobody!"

I stopped watching there. Even my grandma knows up from ruler ranks by now how to jump when there is rage or knows what and when to duck and break every throw of Gigas and how to punish everything he has. "Nobody knows...." Sure. LOL

Gigas is not a bad character but almost every decent player knows the MU by now.

I guess Kazuya will be "D minus tier" in the end of the video . Clickbait? :D

Edit: "Based on online win-loss data." :D

"Rare" charactaters have better win rate not because they are stronger characters but its probably because the average skill of the players who playes them are better than the average of the masses who playes mainstram characters. That is all. Logic... ehhh

[adroman]

Top 5 in season 4 I imho are:

Akuma
Geese
Hworang
Panda
Fahkumram

Weakest chars are Josie and Lei

[Froz7y]

pablonesmrtelny の投稿を引用：

Midknight Battler の投稿を引用：

To say you can reach higher ranks and have more players playing the character = because of lower win rate?

It still doesnt make sense.. how can you get higher ranks by losing more? you wont attain enough points. Also to factor in, Jin,Kazuya and Bryan are one of the most often played characters. Are the numbers contributing to the low win rate? Its difficult to form any context to this list..

You won't lose more. You win/lose the same in ranked once you get to the sweetspot where you are even with the opposition. Then it is not about character but about you improving.

It is the journey TO "your" rank that matters.

For your main the journey to "your" rank is just a little fraction of your total matches with the character BUT for your subs the free wins on the way to "your" rank can make up for more significant number.

For example if you are a Ruler and you pick up new char you chew through orange and red ranks and hit a wall in purple - play some more matches and stop. You can have winrate 70% and be on similar rank as your main.

If you are ruler with your main you spend hundreds of matches sloooooooooooowly improving through months and years and you will end up having winrate close to 50% whether you are warrior or a Fujin. There is no real "chew through people until it gets real" phase which affects it.

I have it this for my chars at least.

By this means Gigas never hit the sweet spot lol.. thats why Paul has so many TGPs despite having lower winrate. Dumb reasoning.

Simply put it the win rates alone is not enough data to truly knows what is going on, there are missing data to do any correlation and proper analysis.