The biggest fault of Tekken is the bloated character pool

[miki]

There's just not enough time to learn all strings and setups. I don't get it why there are so many characters. The game wouldn't be any worse with half of the roster gone. It's not LoL with 4 abilities on each character.

Quality >>> Quantity

[poop]

Season 2 and 3 were not planned.
They were only made because people kept buying season 1 and demanding more characters.

[🆁🅴🅶🅴🅽🆃]

congrats, you are among the 3% making this complaint

[天佑中共🐥the light]

we need more 50 characters

[Lord Oink]

yeah TMM talked about this. There's too much knowledge needed with Tekken. Tonnes of moves + tonnes of characters = bloat. Complexity is not the same as depth.

It's not the same with SF4, lots of characters but few moves, you can learn how to deal with every one way quicker.

[Kinoe]

(Not directed at OP)
The game's wrong either way, make few characters people complain, make tons of characters people still complain.

I think the problem is that Tekken is the kinds of games where you expect a long movelist, not just 10 moves each character. Although the number varies, the smallest movelist is alredy 60 moves(Claudio I think). While there is nothing wrong with that, the community needs more than 5 characters. But the movelist per character is not very supportive of that idea.

And to me, there is no way to balance this. Splice the character's movelist in half? People won't be very happy, characters wouldn't be the same. If say Hwo only has 60 moves, it wouldn't be Hwo anymore. Delete 50% of king's grabs? King haters would be happy lol, but there would be a HUGE outrage of King and Hwo mains demanding their character's identity back.

And if we half the characters, people rage because the game they paid for might not have their favourite characters, or because they think they're not getting the right value for their money. Either way, unless you want to get competitive, you don't really beed to know every character's moves to have fun.

[pablonesmrtelny]

Agreed. Its great that we have complex movelists/tactics but its a little less great that we have a million characters.

[Irigy Kutya]

I feel like every character added after Tekken 5 was just an unnecessary thing, and none of them fits the marshal art feeling of Tekken or is interresting in personality or gameplay. They just made something just to be there, not because they had such a good idea about a cool character. The only exception is Dragunov, I don’t play him, but it’s an okay Tekken character based on some actual marshal art.

But characters like Lili, Claudio, Lars... Mehh.

And if you talk about bears and stuff, they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of course, but they are some legacy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and this is not a reason to add more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to the game, and on the other hand they are not really an effective
character.

[ofey3]

Originally posted by Hidan:

I feel like every character added after Tekken 5 was just an unnecessary thing, and none of them fits the marshal art feeling of Tekken or is interresting in personality or gameplay. They just made something just to be there, not because they had such a good idea about a cool character. The only exception is Dragunov, I don’t play him, but it’s an okay Tekken character based on some actual marshal art.

But characters like Lili, Claudio, Lars... Mehh.

And if you talk about bears and stuff, they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of course, but they are some legacy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and this is not a reason to add more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to the game, and on the other hand they are not really an effective
character.

Lili and Dragunov became with Tekken 5. So these aren't characters added after Tekken 5.

[Nyxs]

Originally posted by Kinoe:

(Not directed at OP)
The game's wrong either way, make few characters people complain, make tons of characters people still complain.

I think the problem is that Tekken is the kinds of games where you expect a long movelist, not just 10 moves each character. Although the number varies, the smallest movelist is alredy 60 moves(Claudio I think). While there is nothing wrong with that, the community needs more than 5 characters. But the movelist per character is not very supportive of that idea.

And to me, there is no way to balance this. Splice the character's movelist in half? People won't be very happy, characters wouldn't be the same. If say Hwo only has 60 moves, it wouldn't be Hwo anymore. Delete 50% of king's grabs? King haters would be happy lol, but there would be a HUGE outrage of King and Hwo mains demanding their character's identity back.

And if we half the characters, people rage because the game they paid for might not have their favourite characters, or because they think they're not getting the right value for their money. Either way, unless you want to get competitive, you don't really beed to know every character's moves to have fun.

I think you nailed it.

Reducing the move list is taking away the chars personality.
Reducing the roaster is taking away chars from their player base...

No real good solutions.

Now @Miki, Learning it all feels impossible and I feel bad about it too quite often. Yet I play Ling and I don't think anyone need to know hundreds of things about her. You can reduce it to 40 moves that you need to counter, split in 20 important and some that are situational, and some chars like kazuya or bryan require you to learn a dozen of moves... There are many chars you do not have to learn since we do not face them online, including complex ones such as lei, and if ever you do face them, just do not rematch if you are not interested in that MU. In the end it is not so bad.

Now again I understand your point because if you want to learn one match up entirely it requires hours in training mode just to learn what you can do (still even doing that you always miss something important), hours to get ready to apply offline, hours of fights to get ready in real match...

From where I stand it feels impossible to be ready for everything if you are not a full time player.
Problem being I get 1h per day to play at best... XD

[Irigy Kutya]

Originally posted by ofey3:

Originally posted by Hidan:

I feel like every character added after Tekken 5 was just an unnecessary thing, and none of them fits the marshal art feeling of Tekken or is interresting in personality or gameplay. They just made something just to be there, not because they had such a good idea about a cool character. The only exception is Dragunov, I don’t play him, but it’s an okay Tekken character based on some actual marshal art.

But characters like Lili, Claudio, Lars... Mehh.

And if you talk about bears and stuff, they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of course, but they are some legacy ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and this is not a reason to add more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to the game, and on the other hand they are not really an effective
character.

Lili and Dragunov became with Tekken 5. So these aren't characters added after Tekken 5.

I guess you mean DR, because in vanilla Tekken 5 non of these were present, and I referenced that.

[Irigy Kutya]

Originally posted by Nyxs:

Originally posted by Kinoe:

(Not directed at OP)
The game's wrong either way, make few characters people complain, make tons of characters people still complain.

I think the problem is that Tekken is the kinds of games where you expect a long movelist, not just 10 moves each character. Although the number varies, the smallest movelist is alredy 60 moves(Claudio I think). While there is nothing wrong with that, the community needs more than 5 characters. But the movelist per character is not very supportive of that idea.

And to me, there is no way to balance this. Splice the character's movelist in half? People won't be very happy, characters wouldn't be the same. If say Hwo only has 60 moves, it wouldn't be Hwo anymore. Delete 50% of king's grabs? King haters would be happy lol, but there would be a HUGE outrage of King and Hwo mains demanding their character's identity back.

And if we half the characters, people rage because the game they paid for might not have their favourite characters, or because they think they're not getting the right value for their money. Either way, unless you want to get competitive, you don't really beed to know every character's moves to have fun.

I think you nailed it.

Reducing the move list is taking away the chars personality.
Reducing the roaster is taking away chars from their player base...

No real good solutions.

Now @Miki, Learning it all feels impossible and I feel bad about it too quite often. Yet I play Ling and I don't think anyone need to know hundreds of things about her. You can reduce it to 40 moves that you need to counter, split in 20 important and some that are situational, and some chars like kazuya or bryan require you to learn a dozen of moves... There are many chars you do not have to learn since we do not face them online, including complex ones such as lei, and if ever you do face them, just do not rematch if you are not interested in that MU. In the end it is not so bad.

Now again I understand your point because if you want to learn one match up entirely it requires hours in training mode just to learn what you can do (still even doing that you always miss something important), hours to get ready to apply offline, hours of fights to get ready in real match...

From where I stand it feels impossible to be ready for everything if you are not a full time player.
Problem being I get 1h per day to play at best... XD

I main Bryan. And with him and Kazuya the problem is that everyone knows the match up because they have no gimmicks so people learn it on the fly. I never labbed Kaz but it’s my easiest match up and if I lose it’s because of the opponents skill not because of some overwhelming gimmickery. And in my opinion this is
what Tekken should be.

So if I play against someone, I’m am open book and only my skill decides if I win or lose. But most of the characters I play are some gimmick heavy spam fest and mostly I lose because I don’t know the match up. And how should I learn an Anna if I get one in every weak, so even if I lab her I cannot practice because they are quite rare. And this goes for many characters, they are rare, but there is 50 characters so for every day there is 2-3 rare characters but always another one so impossible to adapt.

A few gimmick character could be okay, but my problem is that there are so many I don’t even want to start learning them because it seems an endless process that requires too much time and energy investment for a video game. I’m not a full time player but I don’t think so that it should be needed to properly learn a game.

[ofey3]

Originally posted by Hidan:

I guess you mean DR, because in vanilla Tekken 5 non of these were present, and I referenced that.

Ok, if you didn't mean Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection, then you have right.

[MirkoDMC]

That's why Tekken is called "legacy game", and that's why new players will always struggle to get into it. This series has been out for more than 20 years and the veterans literally dedicated their lives to become good at it. Even if a new player is more skilled than a veteran, the new player is doomed to lose because of the HUGE amount of knowledge. Furthermore, in this technological era, a game can be patched so with the arrival of every new season, you have to erase most of your knowledge because in the new season many moves frames and properties will be changed, so it's basically an endless learning process.

Long story short, this is how the game works and we can't change it with our complains. If you expect to reach a mid/high level in 1 or 2 years than this is not the game for you, the gap between veterans and newbies is way too big right now. I suggest you to jump into another fighting game. Personally, i'm waiting for Street Fighter 6 because in SF you don't need to spend hours and hours to lab a character and most of the times, the most skilled player wins.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

I find that very hard to believe. Suppose you have 1 hour to play Tekken a day. You can literally spend 10-15 minutes looking at 1 character's key moves. Do that for 30 days, you've labbed 30 character's best moves in 1 month. Do that for 3 months, plus the 30+ minutes of actual play-time, and you've consolidated that information in your head. Character bloating is just another form of saying "I'm too lazy to learn another person's character, so just delete them".

[Irigy Kutya]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

I find that very hard to believe. Suppose you have 1 hour to play Tekken a day. You can literally spend 10-15 minutes looking at 1 character's key moves. Do that for 30 days, you've labbed 30 character's best moves in 1 month. Do that for 3 months, plus the 30+ minutes of actual play-time, and you've consolidated that information in your head. Character bloating is just another form of saying "I'm too lazy to learn another person's character, so just delete them".

Do you actually think it works like this? :D