I find the P2P connection Tekken 7 use...

[Shadow78]

Apparently, the game uses a centralized P2P, which makes it all the players are on a single server (yes the game has only one server) and it requires to open the ports to be NAT type 1 or 2.In NAT type 3 it causes the crossed or gray connections,which results in communication error.

P2P Centralized = Only one Server and port forward,lags due to the connection of the players.
https://i.imgur.com/z1NuoVy.png


But if the game used a decentralized P2P, there will be no connection problem or nat type.

P2P Decentralized = No server,the host is the server
https://i.imgur.com/jYXHwmy.png

So what do you think ?

[in memoriam of Sharky]

Have you googled this or you are an expert?

Your conslusions seems ad hoc (I mean made up without any expertise ).

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Your thought process would be correct if you didnt have any requirements from Namco regarding the server focus and always-on packet movement. If it was like a standard data network, a mesh topology (The second picture you posted) would be less restrictive and less reliant on a central "hub".

These work great when data is sent back and forth sporadically, like loading a webpage once and storing it in cache for a business worker. But this is not a local area intranet, this is communication throughout the entire internet, with many issues falling onto simply distance connections, gateways , latency, plyers network quality and poorly configured networks potentially bogging down a P2P. This is NOT a standard data network in a business, this is a 60 frame per second data flow in two-directions with different hardware. It is a full-time connection. both characters and hit/hurt boxes are constantly updated and refreshed. It is not sporadic, it is an "always on" handshake connection. Because of that, the server may be required as an intermediary.

It would be great if you could P2P directly without a server. In a perfect world it would work locally. But because of distance, DNS and ISP limits and the lack of basic networking knowledge by most players, it would further lower your number of connectable players and ultimately kill the experience worse than it already is.

NAT type can be configured to allow NAT 2 without too much hassle. There are lists for port forwarding from reputable sites that can help your connection. But I would not want tekken in a "completely open" or portless setting. Simply because of the rudamentary handshake this game connects with. It is most likely not secured as much as one would expect.

*I worked as communications / IT for the United States Military and specialized in network security.

[Shadow78]

Originally posted by Sharky:

Have you googled this or you are an expert?

Your conslusions seems ad hoc (I mean made up without any expertise ).

Sorry,I'm not a expert,I was looking for what is a p2p on google, and I found it on wikipedia

And Also Adhoc : 2 opponents must have the same ip adress if I remember.

[Shadow78]

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

Your thought process would be correct if you didnt have any requirements from Namco regarding the server focus and always-on packet movement. If it was like a standard data network, a mesh topology (The second picture you posted) would be less restrictive and less reliant on a central "hub".

These work great when data is sent back and forth sporadically, like loading a webpage once and storing it in cache for a business worker. But this is not a local area intranet, this is communication throughout the entire internet, with many issues falling onto simply distance connections, gateways , latency, plyers network quality and poorly configured networks potentially bogging down a P2P. This is NOT a standard data network in a business, this is a 60 frame per second data flow in two-directions with different hardware. It is a full-time connection. both characters and hit/hurt boxes are constantly updated and refreshed. It is not sporadic, it is an "always on" handshake connection. Because of that, the server may be required as an intermediary.

It would be great if you could P2P directly without a server. In a perfect world it would work locally. But because of distance, DNS and ISP limits and the lack of basic networking knowledge by most players, it would further lower your number of connectable players and ultimately kill the experience worse than it already is.

NAT type can be configured to allow NAT 2 without too much hassle. There are lists for port forwarding from reputable sites that can help your connection. But I would not want tekken in a "completely open" or portless setting. Simply because of the rudamentary handshake this game connects with. It is most likely not secured as much as one would expect.

*I worked as communications / IT for the United States Military and specialized in network security.

I understand you what you say,atfer all the P2P is not bad,port forward is easy to open,but often ISPs tend to block ports,which is a problem.

But ok the netcode of Tekken 7 is often good and often bad.

[zangaz]

there is "match making" server which apparently works based on steam download region that tells the game who are the players in the same region who are currently looking for a match

actual connection is done between players and problems concerning required open ports etc step in at this point

[OneTwoOne]

I didn't get what P2P Decentralized is

What we want to do:
match people based on rank and connection (how many bars)

How (P2P Centralized I assume):
* I connect to the game and tell the server that I'm looking for a match
* The server looks in his list of all the people that are looking for a match from the same area as mine and the same rank
* The server finds a candidate, tell my PC to send a ping to his PC
* My PC sends ping to his PC, if the ping is good -
* My PC asks his PC (directly) if he interested in starting a match
* If he accepts we send the server that we have found a match
* The server stop to try and find us a match
* We start the game (a connection directly from my PC to his (p2p))

I assume the P2P Centralized work somewhat in the lines above, but how P2P Decentralized suppose to work?

[Goofy Oomfie]

Fighting games have to use P2P connections as any kind of relay node adds network delay. Moreover,
That said, ALL kinds of P2P connections require port forwarding from at least one of the peers when NAT servers are present (mist if not all domestic networks have the router as the NAT server). However, in this case, the server is able to perform hole punching / NAT traversal.
The way it is done is the way it should be done.

[Shadow78]

Originally posted by OneTwoOne:

I didn't get what P2P Decentralized is

What we want to do:
match people based on rank and connection (how many bars)

How (P2P Centralized I assume):
* I connect to the game and tell the server that I'm looking for a match
* The server looks in his list of all the people that are looking for a match from the same area as mine and the same rank
* The server finds a candidate, tell my PC to send a ping to his PC
* My PC sends ping to his PC, if the ping is good -
* My PC asks his PC (directly) if he interested in starting a match
* If he accepts we send the server that we have found a match
* The server stop to try and find us a match
* We start the game (a connection directly from my PC to his (p2p))

I assume the P2P Centralized work somewhat in the lines above, but how P2P Decentralized suppose to work?

The P2P Decentralized has no server, it is the users who are both client and server.

For example when you are a client and you want to connect, you send a message to a user who is the server to find out who else in the network is active, the user answers you,then you are connected to the network.

[OneTwoOne]

Originally posted by Khalil78:

... you send a message to a user who is the server to find out who else in the network is active, the user answers you,then you are connected to the network.

How do I find that specific user who is the server? and what if he is turning off his PC

[OneTwoOne]

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

Fighting games have to use P2P connections as any kind of relay node adds network delay. Moreover,
That said, ALL kinds of P2P connections require port forwarding from at least one of the peers when NAT servers are present (mist if not all domestic networks have the router as the NAT server). However, in this case, the server is able to perform hole punching / NAT traversal.
The way it is done is the way it should be done.

If "NAT traversal" can punch holes why I need to open ports?

[Goofy Oomfie]

Originally posted by OneTwoOne:

Originally posted by Khalil78:

... you send a message to a user who is the server to find out who else in the network is active, the user answers you,then you are connected to the network.

How do I find that specific user who is the server? and what if he is turning off his PC

For fighting games specifically, you ask around and offer your IP. This is what Melty Blood players do. In general, there's also the GNUTella method: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnutella

[Goofy Oomfie]

Originally posted by OneTwoOne:

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

Fighting games have to use P2P connections as any kind of relay node adds network delay. Moreover,
That said, ALL kinds of P2P connections require port forwarding from at least one of the peers when NAT servers are present (mist if not all domestic networks have the router as the NAT server). However, in this case, the server is able to perform hole punching / NAT traversal.
The way it is done is the way it should be done.

If "NAT traversal" can punch holes why I need to open ports?

You usually don't. I've never forwarded ports for Steam.

[Shadow78]

Originally posted by OneTwoOne:

Originally posted by Khalil78:

... you send a message to a user who is the server to find out who else in the network is active, the user answers you,then you are connected to the network.

How do I find that specific user who is the server? and what if he is turning off his PC

If the user turns his pc off,you will not see it because he disconnected ,but if he is active,you will receive his response.

[OneTwoOne]

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

Originally posted by OneTwoOne:

How do I find that specific user who is the server? and what if he is turning off his PC

For fighting games specifically, you ask around and offer your IP. This is what Melty Blood players do. In general, there's also the GNUTella method: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnutella

Nice, interesting project.

[OneTwoOne]

Originally posted by Herzenswärme:

Originally posted by OneTwoOne:

If "NAT traversal" can punch holes why I need to open ports?

You usually don't. I've never forwarded ports for Steam.

Tekken apparently needs port forwarding, so they have decided not to use NAT traversal for some reason?