Neutral game with Leo

[pablonesmrtelny]

Hi,

today I tried Leo and I have some problems :)

I get the gameplan and wall game.

But I wonder what are the best moves to use in neutral game.

at range:

the b1 is obviously the best option but is there any other good mid range string that I should be throwing out?

the qcf2,1 is great but I seem to have problems timing it.

db2,2 seems great although high - didnt have time to try that out properly.

the b4,1+2 and db1+2,1 seem to be a bit slow;

3,2,3/4 and b2,1/1+2 seem to lack range and b3,1 is weak.

Keepout:

I wonder what is the best keepout tool to interrupt opponent coming in. Im trying to use ff2 for this purpose but the input is tricky since I need high precision to interrupt.

close up:

I wonder what is the best mid to mix up with hellsweep.
df2 is useless of course since it doesnt launch crouchers, uf4 seem to have very short range so its good only sometimes

I tried df1 of course which works pretty well but isnt there anything bigger that I should use? or some string?

df3 is great but it has kind of big recovery so if I whiff Im in trouble.

Punishment:

What is in your experience best go-to punisher for moves that you think are punishable but you are not sure how unsafe they are?
Usually its the 12 frame but Leo has 11 frame with shorter range and then 13 frame - both unsafe as hell. I wonder which one is better for unsure situations (which are most in my case :) Or should I use just 10 frame and launchers if I dont know exactly what Im doing?

THX a lot :)

[Rikkore]

Originally posted by pablonesmrtelny:

Hi,

today I tried Leo and I have some problems :)

I get the gameplan and wall game.

But I wonder what are the best moves to use in neutral game.

at range:

the b1 is obviously the best option but is there any other good mid range string that I should be throwing out?

the qcf2,1 is great but I seem to have problems timing it.

db2,2 seems great although high - didnt have time to try that out properly.

the b4,1+2 and db1+2,1 seem to be a bit slow;

3,2,3/4 and b2,1/1+2 seem to lack range and b3,1 is weak.



close up:

I wonder what is the best mid to mix up with hellsweep.
df2 is useless of course since it doesnt launch crouchers, uf4 seem to have very short range so its good only sometimes

I tried df1 of course which works pretty well but isnt there anything bigger that I should use? or some string?

df3 is great but it has kind of big recovery so if I whiff Im in trouble.

Punishment:

What is in your experience best go-to punisher for moves that you think are punishable but you are not sure how unsafe they are?
Usually its the 12 frame but Leo has 11 frame with shorter range and then 13 frame - both unsafe as hell. I wonder which one is better for unsure situations (which are most in my case :) Or should I use just 10 frame and launchers if I dont know exactly what Im doing?

THX a lot :)

If you don't know how punishable a move is why would you go for a i11-i13 punish?

Do a i10

[pablonesmrtelny]

Well I dont know exact punishment for vast majority of moves :) I generally do 12 frame and of course adapt if that doesnt work :)

but yeah - 10 frame is also a good choice.

[tanya]

i use qcf+2,1 to get in but its steppable. qcf+1 in tandem with that is also pretty useful and gets you chip damage that you should otherwise not have gotten. something also pretty usable is f,f+4,3 (not 4,3,4.)
sometimes you can even get a raw BOK 3 to get blocked, which leads into the d+1 frametrap (and if that hits you get extremely bungo damage.)
getting in with d/f+1 SS stuff is also pretty good. poke on the outside whiffing d/f+2 if you can do it safely. it baits a lot of wack stuff.
u can mix leo deathfist (f,f+2) with hellsweep if you want a really high-risk high-reward thing. you can use d/b+1+2 as well because its hitconfirmable into d/b+1+2, 1 which also rewards a wallsplat, but only at the the wall obviously. b+1+4 is a cliffnote but its really good for ending rounds and on counterhit it links into b+2,1+2 for 56 something damage.
generally speaking leo is only exceptionally strong if you are good at core tekken spacing and whatnot. once you get past b+1,4 leo lacks exceptional tools to stop pressure. u have to just play like regular tekken for the most part outspacing and whiffing to bait.
leo does not have a 12f punisher to my knowledge, so i usually just do 2,1,3 in range.
i always go for 1,4 if i don't know the punish. 1,2,4 is a more greedy option if you want the opponent to start fearing leo lows. obviously, just ws4,1+2 until -15 on low blocking, and then just do hopkick launcher.

[pablonesmrtelny]

Originally posted by raidou kuzunoha the fourteenth:

i use qcf+2,1 to get in but its steppable. qcf+1 in tandem with that is also pretty useful and gets you chip damage that you should otherwise not have gotten. something also pretty usable is f,f+4,3 (not 4,3,4.)
sometimes you can even get a raw BOK 3 to get blocked, which leads into the d+1 frametrap (and if that hits you get extremely bungo damage.)
getting in with d/f+1 SS stuff is also pretty good. poke on the outside whiffing d/f+2 if you can do it safely. it baits a lot of wack stuff.
u can mix leo deathfist (f,f+2) with hellsweep if you want a really high-risk high-reward thing. you can use d/b+1+2 as well because its hitconfirmable into d/b+1+2, 1 which also rewards a wallsplat, but only at the the wall obviously. b+1+4 is a cliffnote but its really good for ending rounds and on counterhit it links into b+2,1+2 for 56 something damage.
generally speaking leo is only exceptionally strong if you are good at core tekken spacing and whatnot. once you get past b+1,4 leo lacks exceptional tools to stop pressure. u have to just play like regular tekken for the most part outspacing and whiffing to bait.
leo does not have a 12f punisher to my knowledge, so i usually just do 2,1,3 in range.
i always go for 1,4 if i don't know the punish. 1,2,4 is a more greedy option if you want the opponent to start fearing leo lows. obviously, just ws4,1+2 until -15 on low blocking, and then just do hopkick launcher.

Thx!

Yeah I also have a feeling that leo should be played more reactively... damn ☺

I'll give it a try.