Horizon Chase 2 is coming out

[Logan]

For now only on something called Apple Arcade, but devs already said they will release game on consoles and PC in 2023!
https://twitter.com/HorizonChase/status/1564689211860684800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnklq_CCDfQ

[Dunther]

Origineel geplaatst door Jar Jar Binks:

Origineel geplaatst door WolfEisberg:

In this case it is because Epic literally owns the IP and the developers of the game. At this point expecting Horizon Chase Turbo 2 to come to Steam is like expecting Half Life 2 to show up on EGS.

"Why does Nintendo not release Zelda on PC, screw them"

Origineel geplaatst door Dunther:

In the long run it hurts them since nobody buys the game

I'm on your side. I'm just saying to them, definitive money is better than hypothetical money. Epic's money counters potential sales on Steam.

In this specific instance, if @WolfEisberg is correct and Epic actually owns the series now (I haven't checked), it's even more obvious why it's not on Steam though. My argument was for independent publishers who went for Epic exclusivity.

Edit: actually still works if Epic owns the series, because that means the devs took Epic's money to start developing with them as publishers. Maybe your game gets less buyers but Epic still publishes on consoles (I'm not going to boycot Alan Wake 2 because it's published by Epic, I just bought it on PS5 instead), and as a publisher they apparently aren't that fussy about the content. It's a bit of certainty for the devs, so I get their choice, even if I dislike Epic's practices for what it means to me as a consumer. I doubt we'd have gotten Allan Wake 2 already if it hadn't been for Epic's money though sl there's that. It's not a black and white situation. Just sucks for people exclusively on Steam.

I don't use only Steam, I prefer Steam over anything else, I just boycott Epic Games since the Shenmue III scam

[Based Jar Jar Enjoyer]

Origineel geplaatst door Dunther:

I don't use only Steam, I prefer Steam over anything else, I just boycott Epic Games since the Shenmue III scam

I'm a console gamer (which is why I love the Steam Deck) so my opinion is not exactly the same, but I do hate Epic and their scheming with a passion and refuse to even get an account for their free games. I'll just pay for the games I'm interested in elsewhere.

[Tsuki Zero]

Origineel geplaatst door Jar Jar Binks:

"Why does Nintendo not release Zelda on PC, screw them"

Meanwhile Sony: "God of War is good to go to PC."
What is happening here is basically: Steam and GOG exists, right? Yeah, there's exclusivity here and there between the two, but neither goes out of their way to have that exclusivity, and both services actively makes efforts to combat piracy by providing a service better than the pirates do (For an example: Steam has the Community place for the game, GOG allows you to download an offline installer outta the site so you don't need a launcher)

And then there's the devil known as Epic Store, that offers an exclusivity contract for the price of your soul and reputation, gives the illusion of you making more money because of a better cut for sales that will never happen, has (or had, doubt they fixed it) a shady script in their storefront that follows you through every site you visit regardless of window or tab until you restart the browser session, and has been bleeding money like mad from buying out publishers and devs in an attempt to defeat Steam (and likely GOG as collateral damage), LITERALLY DELETED Unreal from existence...

Origineel geplaatst door Jar Jar Binks:

I'm on your side. I'm just saying to them, definitive money is better than hypothetical money. Epic's money counters potential sales on Steam.

Nope, it doesn't. Epic offers a tempting guaranteed upfront payment for projected sales to entice publishers and devs into an exclusivity contract... Thing is, that's the most they'll get in the majority of cases: an hypothetical sales money from a bleeding company. And that's just the tip of the iceberg: The lack of a review system, the lack of a discussion page, the lack of ANY communication between user and company only makes it harder to fix the product in cases there are issues. See:

• Hades' dev used the excuse of Epic Store being used as an alternative early access, the game still had obvious bugs on Steam after the exclusivity expired.

• Kingdom Hearts collection still has random crashes no one can fix, and due to exclusivity will never be fixed.

• Borderlands 3 still has a Direct 3D crash that Gearbox won't bother to fix.

All in all, exclusivity in same platform only harms the experience and the sales, there's no benefit to it.

Origineel geplaatst door Jar Jar Binks:

In this specific instance, if @WolfEisberg is correct and Epic actually owns the series now (I haven't checked), it's even more obvious why it's not on Steam though. My argument was for independent publishers who went for Epic exclusivity.

There's still nil benefits. If anything, it would be better to go back to pre-Steam online sales, host your own site and sell the game through there, you get 100% of the sales.

Origineel geplaatst door Jar Jar Binks:

Edit: actually still works if Epic owns the series, because that means the devs took Epic's money to start developing with them as publishers. Maybe your game gets less buyers but Epic still publishes on consoles (I'm not going to boycot Alan Wake 2 because it's published by Epic, I just bought it on PS5 instead), and as a publisher they apparently aren't that fussy about the content. It's a bit of certainty for the devs, so I get their choice, even if I dislike Epic's practices for what it means to me as a consumer. I doubt we'd have gotten Allan Wake 2 already if it hadn't been for Epic's money though sl there's that. It's not a black and white situation. Just sucks for people exclusively on Steam.

They had the choice to not sell their soul... And they sold their soul. Any admiration people had for them now is GONE.

[KillingArts]

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

There's still nil benefits. If anything, it would be better to go back to pre-Steam online sales, host your own site and sell the game through there, you get 100% of the sales.

Never in a million years. There is a reason why all sales happen on sales platforms these days. Because that's the only reasonable way to get visibility and make money. Especially for indies.

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

They had the choice to not sell their soul... And they sold their soul. Any admiration people had for them now is GONE.

And yet I guarantee you would do the exact same in that position. Such a deal means security for you and your employees, instead of the uncertainty that awaits you on Steam. That's why so many do these Epic deals. It's not because they're all totally stupid and know so little about how the industry works (as opposed to you). Whether you like it or not, they do it because it makes sense for them.

[Tsuki Zero]

Origineel geplaatst door KillingArts:

And yet I guarantee you would do the exact same in that position.

I would sooner sell my soul to literal Satan than become a slave of Epic Games.

[WolfEisberg]

Origineel geplaatst door KillingArts:

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

There's still nil benefits. If anything, it would be better to go back to pre-Steam online sales, host your own site and sell the game through there, you get 100% of the sales.

Never in a million years. There is a reason why all sales happen on sales platforms these days. Because that's the only reasonable way to get visibility and make money. Especially for indies.

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

They had the choice to not sell their soul... And they sold their soul. Any admiration people had for them now is GONE.

And yet I guarantee you would do the exact same in that position. Such a deal means security for you and your employees, instead of the uncertainty that awaits you on Steam. That's why so many do these Epic deals. It's not because they're all totally stupid and know so little about how the industry works (as opposed to you). Whether you like it or not, they do it because it makes sense for them.

You are talking to someone that I have zero doubt if they were running a game development studio, and if the choice came down to shutting down, laying off all the employees, or getting an exclusivity deal with Epic or have Epic being the publisher, he would choose to shut down his studio and lay off all of his employees. Why? because a store is more important to him than the games and the developers are.

For example, KeokeN Interactive recently shut down, they couldn't get funding for their games, despite their 2 previous games were good games. If KeokeN Interactive was offered to be published by Epic for their next game instead of shutting down and laying off all the employees, If Tsuki Zero was the owner of that studio he would absolutely choose to shut down and lay off all the employees instead of getting money from Epic to be their publisher.

[Tsuki Zero]

It's about morals. Epic Games is deliberately gunning for monopoly on PC games and deliberately bleeding themselves dry to pursue this. Bet they would be willing to enforce crunch to simply get more money to fuel their monopoly machine.

Oh wait, they do!

[WolfEisberg]

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

It's about morals. Epic Games is deliberately gunning for monopoly on PC games

That is false. If they were going for a monopoly, they would have went for massively more than less than 1% of newly released games as exclusives. They did significantly less games as exclusives that it would take to become a monopoly.

Don't worry, Steam will continue to have monopoly power in PC gaming for.... probably forever.

Bet they would be willing to enforce crunch to simply get more money to fuel their monopoly machine.

Oh wait, they do!

That is also false. While yes, for some months from Sept 2017 after the release of Fortnite Battle Royal blew up in a huge way all of a sudden, something Epic wasn't prepared to deal with at the time, after those months they fixed their issue and they haven't crunched since then.

But yes, I am sure if you were running a studio that you would rather lay of all your employees and shut down instead of taking an exclusivity deal/publishing deal with Epic. Because apparently putting the livelihood in jeopardy of your employees is the moral thing to do here, and taking a deal to ensure the livelihood of your employees is the immoral thing to do.

[Tsuki Zero]

Origineel geplaatst door WolfEisberg:

Don't worry, Steam will continue to have monopoly power in PC gaming for.... probably forever.

Steam doesn't have a monopoly, you fool. Never had, never will. They don't buy out publishers nor devs, they don't aim to make the competition look bad, nothing.

What Steam has is a very convenient AIO for devs and publishers: Reviews, Screenshots, a Storefront that puts the product well into focus when viewed, user-made content support that covers Screenshots, Artwork, Discussion Board, Guides, Workshop, an easy way to post up new updates, and a DRM option (that, while admittedly has been figured by pirates, doesn't stop number from going big).

Also GOG is still there, and also offering a WAY better service than Epic Store offers, even having a better review system than Steam.

[WolfEisberg]

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

Steam doesn't have a monopoly, you fool. Never had, never will. They don't buy out publishers nor devs, they don't aim to make the competition look bad, nothing.

You are wrong. They do in fact have Monopoly power because of the market share they have in the PC industry for PC games distribution, which Steam has about 85+% of that market share, the other 15% shared by stores like EGS, GOG, Itch. Monopoly power is determined by the market share one has. In the US having monopoly power is having more than 50% of the market share, in the UK having monopoly power is having a market share of greater than 25%.

[WolfEisberg]

Forgot to mention something:

• Hades' dev used the excuse of Epic Store being used as an alternative early access, the game still had obvious bugs on Steam after the exclusivity expired.

• Kingdom Hearts collection still has random crashes no one can fix, and due to exclusivity will never be fixed.

• Borderlands 3 still has a Direct 3D crash that Gearbox won't bother to fix.

Hades released to Steam in early access, of course it would still have bugs, and they used that final 10 months of early access to do the polish run on the game before v1.0 release. Hades developers always planned on the early access time to be around 2 years because they spend 3 years developing game with 2 years of that being in early access, which it was in early access for about 2 years with nearly a year of that being on Steam and EGS. Also Hade developers got a ton of feedback for their early access game through the in game submission form and through their discord channel, even when they came to Steam they suggested to people to come to the Discord channel to provide feedback.

Kingdom Hearts. That is on Square Enix, any bugs that exist is on them, not on an exclusivity contract at all. Square Enix is more than capable to provide updates for their games. And people are capable for contacting Square Enix support to provide bug reports.

Same goes for Borderlands 3.

[Tsuki Zero]

Origineel geplaatst door WolfEisberg:

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

Steam doesn't have a monopoly, you fool. Never had, never will. They don't buy out publishers nor devs, they don't aim to make the competition look bad, nothing.

You are wrong. They do in fact have Monopoly power because of the market share they have in the PC industry for PC games distribution, which Steam has about 85+% of that market share, the other 15% shared by stores like EGS, GOG, Itch. Monopoly power is determined by the market share one has. In the US having monopoly power is having more than 50% of the market share, in the UK having monopoly power is having a market share of greater than 25%.

You don't even KNOW what Monopoly is.

[WolfEisberg]

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

Origineel geplaatst door WolfEisberg:

You are wrong. They do in fact have Monopoly power because of the market share they have in the PC industry for PC games distribution, which Steam has about 85+% of that market share, the other 15% shared by stores like EGS, GOG, Itch. Monopoly power is determined by the market share one has. In the US having monopoly power is having more than 50% of the market share, in the UK having monopoly power is having a market share of greater than 25%.

You don't even KNOW what Monopoly is.

I do know what monopoly power is, which is what I have been talking about. Though I doubt you even know what a monopoly even is at all as used by various laws and courts around the world, considering what you have said here.

[Tsuki Zero]

Origineel geplaatst door WolfEisberg:

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

You don't even KNOW what Monopoly is.

I do know what monopoly power is, which is what I have been talking about. Though I doubt you even know what a monopoly even is at all as used by various laws and courts around the world, considering what you have said here.

Legalese is different- Ah, know what, screw it, not gonna explain you since you are knighting Epic so hard.

Done with this thread, HCT2 won't get my money EVEN IF it comes to Steam.

[WolfEisberg]

Origineel geplaatst door Tsuki Zero:

Origineel geplaatst door WolfEisberg:

I do know what monopoly power is, which is what I have been talking about. Though I doubt you even know what a monopoly even is at all as used by various laws and courts around the world, considering what you have said here.

Legalese is different- Ah, know what, screw it, not gonna explain you since you are knighting Epic so hard.

Done with this thread, HCT2 won't get my money EVEN IF it comes to Steam.

well in that case you don't even know what the non legalese version of a monopoly is.