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Not only taking the costume undetected, but also leading the children into the saferoom undetected ;)
Scott didn't say they were close during the livestream? I watched it entirely and that never came up. The Scott impersonator in the chat was confirmed by Scott to be well, an impersonator and not him.
And then Scott posted on the forums when people accused him of shutting the livestreaming down because they were getting close to the truth and Scott joked about being able to shut livestreams down with his mind because they were getting too close to the truth. But they were jokes.
So people can assume without liability that a child was stuffed into that suit (which is a lot more unlikely) but we can't assume what seems to be the most obvious choice of all? xD That the employee we see wearing the Spring Bonnie suit two days earlier got killed by the springlocks accidentally? Scott didn't add random easter eggs, that suit is there to warn us of the springlock failures happening. Hence why the next day the animatronics on the restaurant AREN'T WORN BY EMPLOYEES during the birthday party, they've already been deemed unfit for employees and are only used in animatronic mode. But after the animatronic mode fails as well due to the teens misusing it, crunching that child's head, they deem the suits too dangerous to use in any way, giving Freddy Fazbear's Pizza a heads up on what happened and to retire the suits for obvious reasons.
When we see that employee two days earlier we see how the suit only lets his head show up from eyes up. When he dies, the muscles of the neck stop keeping the head in place and it slumps down, so if only his eyes and up showed out of the suit before, now only his hair does. Just like we see in that minigame. Now if that were a child, she would be stuffed into the belly area of the suit, she wouldn't be tall enough to reach the head area of the animatronic and we wouldn't see anything. Plus, we're never told of any children being murdered inside of Fredbear's Family Diner so I don't know why everyone keeps forcing the events of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza into Fredbear's. Only the spirit of the puppet and the FNAF 4 child died at Fredbear's, the rest of events happened to employees, leading to the suits being decommissioned and never to be used legally again in the rest of the saga. Remember that the suits at Fredbear's Family Diner and the ones at Freddy Fazbear's Pizza aren't the same, they have obvious differences when it comes to wearing them.
As for Springtrap spotting deadspots and hiding from the cameras, you're right! I wrote about it in my full theory here http://rydi1689.deviantart.com/art/Five-Nights-at-Freddy-s-My-complete-theory-569114955 you can find it in the middle of the theory, right besides the "local pizzeria threatened with shut down" header.
As for that earlier comment (about Purple Guy's possible motives), I made that into a thread for further discussion (though I focused on the main part of the topic and didn't bother with the Fazbear's Fright part of it, since that part didn't make much sense):
http://steamcommunity.com/app/388090/discussions/0/496880503074163737/
I think it might make sense in terms of the story (it might be what we're missing (I even tried to tie it in to the second hint from Scott Games)), though the part about Purple Guy's death might have been caused through another tragedy that occurred later on (maybe the brother got really depressed and killed himself)).
I think I have something that can fit right in, too. You say that a Fredbear's (Fredbear/Spring Bonnie, AKA FNAF4) and a Freddy's (pre-'Withered' gang/Puppet) are active at the same time. Here's a part of my reasoning, focusing on Scott's 'Chica hint' and figuring things out from there: http://steamcommunity.com/app/388090/discussions/0/490123938445823000/
Basically, though? The pre-'Withered' suits are technically Springlock suits, but they were never intended for employees to wear like Fredbear/Spring Bonnie. They utilized the hand-crank to force the animatronics into a mechanical 'night mode', hence why there was never one programmed in. When the Puppet stuffed the dead children in the animatronics, the springlocks failed and crushed the kids' bodies inside. It's also why Purple Guy in the FNAF2 minigame 'SAVETHEM' may be carrying a handcrack in his hand to stop Withered Freddy.
Is it just me or what you said here is different than what you said in your thread? Cause here you seem to be aware that FNAF 4 has Fredbear and S. Bonnie whereas Freddy's (FNAF 3 training tapes) has the pre-withered gang. But in your thread you wrote it the other way around.
I don't think they're really springlock suits though but the world won't end if you believe it unless you think the springlock failures are the death of those children in the springlock suits, because that's wrong. For instance, in order for them to find out about the springlock incidents they would have needed to find the suits and the corpses inside, but the media reports the corpses haven't been found. The murders happened at FNAF 3's training tapes location, not at the sister location where the springlock failures happened. That's the key point.
At the time the thread was written, I was wrapped up in the mindset of "OMG, I figured something out and I've gotta share it with everybody!!!" Which, as a result, makes the finer details something I wasn't focused on at the time. Since then, what I said here is more accurate to what I believe now.
Fair point, but if I may be so bold -- it sounds like you believe that the pizzeria is completely innocent of anything going on. If there's anything that we do disagree on, it's this.
I mean, this pizzeria has an established protocol with handling dead bodies once discovered on their premises as described in FNAF1 Night 1 (the same phone call played backwards as ambient sound in FNAF4). Yes, in FNAF1 it was to explain what happened to the previous (dead) security guards, but policies like that are usually created in the aftermath of a similar event. And this is the same company that walls up an unmapped super-secret room at the first sign of trouble in order to avoid negative attention that could cost the company everything.
For that matter, Phone Guy in particular has a habit of spouting mealy-mouthed BS to make situations sound far better than what the truth actually is. "Multiple and simultaneous springlock failures" feels like such a statement to me.
EDIT!!! -- I hadn't realized you also commented on my original thread at the time I posted this. I'm so sorry!
Don't worry about it! I'm also replying here without checking if you've replied to me in your other thread xD so let's bear with one another ;)
I believe the pizzeria is shady as heck but I don't think they do everything with bad intentions, especially not in the first pizzeria ever, where they didn't have any issues until the five missing children incident.
FNAF 1's protocol was estabilished precisely in FNAF 1, so it doesn't apply to the other locations. As you can tell, FNAF 2 had crimes and the investigation began without them waiting to clean the carpets and stuff. So the protocol wasn't really in place there yet.
They did board the saferooms to avoid getting shut down, it was a matter of staying in business. They probably thought "the kids won't be brought back to life and their corpses are nowhere to be found, getting our pizzeria shut down won't solve the situation so..." and proceeded to cover their butts. I am quite sure they didn't know the whereabouts of the children, or else they would have taken the bodies out of the animatronics before they caused the pizzeria to get shut down over sanitation. They went the extra mile to board the saferooms up to avoid getting shut down only to let the corpses get them shut down a few months later? If they were shady for the former, they'd be shady for the latter too.
It is my belief they did find the bodies in the animatronics in FNAF 2, when they were retrofitting them with technology and opening them, they found the real deal. I don't know if they left the bodies in there or they buried them in the backyard but, I do believe they found them out then.
The thing is that for them to find out about springlock failures causing the children's death it means they found the corpses of the children inside, and if they've gone all the way to board the saferoom up and urge all employees no to mention it to anyone... Why would they send out a message to ALL EMPLOYEES about the springlock failures? That'd be the most stupid thing to do when you're trying to cover your butt xD Don't you agree? Besides, the springlock failures happened at a sister location, not at Freddy's but the five missing children happened at Freddy's. So yeah.
That is very true. A company cannot create an enforced policy, use it for one situation, NOT use it for a similar later situation, but use it thereafter. It creates a hole that makes no sense from any point of view, storytelling or otherwise.
Notice how the Withered animatronics seem to be covered in a felt-like material? I'm fairly certain that's difficult to fully clean, especially when it comes to stains and smells. They may have not been able to completely remove the stains/smells, but forensic testing (especially at that time) would not have been conclusive enough beyond plausible reasons that do not involve a crime (food/drink splatter, physical contact, etc). The pizzeria got shut down because they were reported one too many times, not because anything was actually found.
I also rely on a bit of paranormal influence here. Yes, they found the bodies in the animatronics and disposed of them, but the animatronics had become haunted the moment the bodies were shoved into the suits -- regardless of if/when the bodies were discovered. The sanitation complaints may not have been truly, physically occurring -- it was the haunting. The kids' souls trying to get an adult to investigate, and it didn't work.
I admit, this is an extreme amount of conjecture on my part.
If I'm wrong about the pizzeria disposing of the bodies early on, then you would HAVE to be correct. Phone Guy's disgust and unease at recalling that memory is completely legitimate and expected from someone who actually experienced it.
A possible storytelling bait-and-switch here. We'd just heard two tapes discussing the danger of the springlock suits to the employees who wear them. If you heard "multiple and simultaneous springlock failures" in a call from the company that also states that the springlock suits are now too dangerous to be worn by employees, what's your immediate assumption? That at least one employee, maybe more, got caught inside the springlock suits and were horribly maimed/killed. Because we (and, most likely, the other employees) never heard anything more about this event, there would be no reason to question it.
And this discussion got me thinking -- I'm extremely distrustful of Fazbear Entertainment's management. XD I'm taking where they ended up in FNAF1 (because Fazbear's Fright was its own thing) and creating a history of actions out of it. "If they do this to security guards, surely they've done this before", etc. This is probably not being fair and may even be blinding me to an extent.
Your point is completely valid regardless of any clarification on my part, but please bear with me anyway. :)
I do not believe the children were alive when they were stuffed in the suits. I firmly believe they were murdered by Purple Guy with a normal weapon, then the Puppet stuffed the corpses into the animatronics afterwards. The point of contention appears to be whether or not the Fazbear Gang (Freddy, Chica, Bonnie, and Foxy) were springlock animatronics (not wearable springlock SUITS like Spring Bonnie and Fredbear) and even if they were, whether or not the springlocks failed upon being stuffed.
Even a dead corpse would become 'children omelet' if the answer is "yes" to both. Is it possible that the pizzeria could wash out the insides as well as they could with what they had available? Yes, but that's supposing that the internal animatronic tech or external felt-covered shell wasn't ruined by the gore -- as you stated. But I highly doubt that this pizzeria only has one set of parts for each character, especially as popular as the place is and given the environment, so perhaps the ruined pieces were replaced with spares and nobody noticed.
Now, the reason why I'm still pleading my case here? I find it difficult to believe that the childrens' bodies were 'never discovered' if the children were merely stuffed into the animatronics and their bodies remained hale and whole. Even moreso if the pizzeria itself didn't secretly make the discovery until closer to 1987. Surely in the course of the initial police investigation they would've cracked open the animatronics to see if anything was inside, and they definitely would've checked once the sanitation concerns started flooding in. The media would've had headlines for weeks upon such a discovery, yet there never was one because it's still known as the Missing Children Incident in the 90's.
On a side note, I'm really enjoying our discussion. :D
I do agree that at some point they should have found the corpses, and someone should have put two and two together when the parents complained about the blood and mucus, but until that point how was anyone supposed to know corpses could be inside animatronics if those animatronics aren't even supposed to be really openable like the springlock ones? If they were easily openable they would have checked them but I'm guessing they were not, therefore they never even remotely considered the possibility that the murderer had stuffed them there (and I say murderer rather than the puppet because it's impossible they'd even consider the puppet could be possessed and do what he truly did xD).
I stand by my belief that the springlock failures had nothing to do with the five missing children, mainly because they happened at the sister location while the five missing children died at the Freddy Fazbear's Pizza where the FNAF 3 training tapes were recorded. So they can't be the same event.
Now, there are a few things in these games we just have to take with a grain of salt, they're meant to be accepted as is and not look too deep into it:
- Why they never checked the animatronics when they found blood and mucus and bad smell
- Why the paychecks don't include tax
- Why nobody checks the security cameras in FNAF 2 to check that nothing shady goes on during the night before, they would have discovered Purple man on the spot (most likely, assuming he didn't screw the security cameras, in which case he'd be too suspicious anyway).
- Why they hire nightguards rather than fixing the animatronics
- Why the guys at Fazbear's Fright took so long to find Springtrap if the saferoom wasn't boarded up anymore (but it had a normal door). Purple man dying after FNAF 1 is the only valid possibility, the rest of possibilities don't add up at all. They already had the animatronics from FNAF 1 so one would think they were already in that location...
- Why Mike gets 120 dollars for a week and 120.50 dollars for a day
- Why the animatronics can kill us with just getting too close to us but they're overpowered by Purple man like they're little kittens.
And so on and so forth. I think the inconsistencies with people not suspecting the children were inside the suits is one of those things we just have to accept and move on, because if we keep pondering about the internal inconsistencies of the game compared to real life, the game would crumble and fall apart xD Somethings aren't meant to be questioned, if you get what I mean.
I also wonder if we're simply trying too hard. Things are exactly the way things are, and digging TOO deeply into the unknown 'how' or 'why' actually causes the red herrings and inconsistencies... which are all distractions, really. The true story could very well be extraordinarily simple, and we're needlessly over-complicating it in trying to explain every last detail. I'm not saying don't try, but we need to be more careful in not sacrificing the overall story to technicalities.
I'll have to sit back and think on this more. :)