the games meta is cancer

[Random™?]

right now the meta is
step 1. equip close range weapon
step 2. equip wheels
step 3. add armor.. it doesnt matter how much
step 4. HOLD W INTO YOU ENEMIES FACE!
step 5. aim in the general direction of their weapons
step 6. honk and be toxic to the player you just disarmed through you "great show of skill"

this has gone of far too long and the only weapon that can counter this gameplay... is a pack locked p2w item... (which atm of making this thread. is over 4k coins and only 12 for sale.. p2w item)

start rewarding skill and punishing braindead meta slaves.. (i know i know.. they wouldnt make money if they actually made you be good at the game)

[AlexKidd62[FR]]

Originally posted by AlexKidd62FR:

And also before saying that ppl using low ps vehicules with high ps weapons is easy countered because they are like glasscanons.... yeah don't forget that is order to shoot at the glasscanon you need your weapons not to be shredded in a few clicks. blue weapons durability is about 1/3 of epic one's good luck with that too.

What? Give me a single example where a weapon of equal energy rating in Epic rarity have even double durability compared to a Rare analogue. Or should I teach you basic math now?

Teach me basic math? oups SORRRRRRYYYY it was just a bit below (and not for the blue though its more than double)

MG13 Equalizer
Damage
1.4
Fire rate
10.0
Range
4.1
Accuracy
6.5
Durability 163 pts.
Energy Drain 3 pts.

FIRE RATE 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sinus-0
Damage
2.7
Fire rate
6.9
Range
3.1
Accuracy
4.1
Durability 90 pts.

FIRE RATE 6.9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ blue

Vector
Damage
2.7
Fire rate
6.9
Range
3.0
Accuracy
4.1
Durability 74 pts.
Energy Drain 3 pts.

what weapon win? the one with highest fire rate + accuracy + durability like many many MP games no matter how much damage it deals. You'll get degunned in a sec.

So now would you quit debunking everyones arguments with YOUR silly non sense arguments just because you said it "it must be true" but all ppl that say otherwise are "WRONG" no dude you are wrong end of the story.

I try again if the game is not dead next year bye bye!

Won't even bother debunking your other arguments no time to waste sorry.

[Random™?]

Originally posted by DivineEvil:

Originally posted by Random™?:

pack items give you an advantage.

I have a pack item and you don't. Where is the advantage?

depends on the pack item... i'll just list the cabins to keep the list within a page of scrolling..:

tusk: lightest purple cabin

ghost: damage boost from stealth (most ghost i see are on scorp hovers)

steppe spider: makes mechanical legs faster (this includes bigrams)

icebox: flat 15% damage buff to all limited fire angle weapons (commonly seen on tsunami/typhoon builds)

dusk: direct damage/flightspeed buff to homing missles

cerberus: extra melee weapon built in

torero: 20% more accuracy on ALL weapon types

favorite: allows for longer firing with overheat style weapons

echo: 50% reload increase on demand

the call: boost power and damage reduction when using drones

howl: 25% damage boost when within 20m of an opponent

blight: increases fire damage by 40%, flamethrower range by 50%.. and fire puddle size by 30%..

cockpit: damage boost (11% per hermes) when going above 75kpm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

those are just the purple cabins that are pack exclusive that give advantage..

so to answer your question..

if you have a blight and i dont... you have a lot higher potential when using a fire based build than i do..

that is an advantage and youre lying to yourself to even think that its not.

[AlexKidd62[FR]]

Originally posted by Unbearable:

The meta is cancerous, heck look at what the bots use against us. watching 5k bots with harvesters is a prime example of how darn easy it is to *game the system*. Toss in the subtle changes they been doing and not announcing lately * cough 8k hard cough* and its clear they are on the side of the wallet players not us filthy freemiums.

Try playing at 3k ps and wait for a player using an harvester showing up then tell the Divine guy how his argument are non sense like he don't even try playing at different PS with the appropriate weapons.

[Random™?]

Originally posted by AlexKidd62FR:

Originally posted by Unbearable:

The meta is cancerous, heck look at what the bots use against us. watching 5k bots with harvesters is a prime example of how darn easy it is to *game the system*. Toss in the subtle changes they been doing and not announcing lately * cough 8k hard cough* and its clear they are on the side of the wallet players not us filthy freemiums.

Try playing at 3k ps and wait for a player using an harvester showing up then tell the Divine guy how his argument are non sense like he don't even try playing at different PS with the appropriate weapons.

divine knows he's wrong, he's just dug the hole too deep to admit it...theres no way someone can be that blind to whats happening that they cant reason with facts

edit: i got seal clubbed when i started playing, i uninstalled the game for a good bit after that.... and i find myself taking higher tier weaponry into lower PS (nothing below 8k)..and i'll do it because the rewards are the same. it doesnt matter if you play at 4k or 14k.. the reward is based directly off your score in the match

[DivineEvil]

Originally posted by AlexKidd62FR:

Teach me basic math? oups SORRRRRRYYYY it was just a bit below (and not for the blue though its more than double)

----

what weapon win? the one with highest fire rate + accuracy + durability like many many MP games no matter how much damage it deals. You'll get degunned in a sec.

So now would you quit debunking everyones arguments with YOUR silly non sense arguments just because you said it "it must be true" but all ppl that say otherwise are "WRONG" no dude you are wrong end of the story.

I try again if the game is not dead next year bye bye!

Won't even bother debunking your other arguments no time to waste sorry.

Aaaaand you have failed as expected.
Equalizer is not analogous to MGs. Equalizer is a completely different type of a weapon. This is why it has its durability. It does not have higher accuracy, because it cannot shoot in bursts like MGs can. Any even marginally competent Vector/Sinus user will disarm the Equalizer user 9 times out of 10. Equalizer is good for suppression and DPS, not disarming. And it takes double the PS to use as Vectors. Hell, you even brought up in-game abstract stats for the weapons, which exposes you as a complete noob...

Goodbye, sucker. See you in a year.

Originally posted by Random™?:

those are just the purple cabins that are pack exclusive that give advantage..

so to answer your question..

if you have a blight and i dont... you have a lot higher potential when using a fire based build than i do..

that is an advantage and youre lying to yourself to even think that its not.

Those are called perks. All purple cabins have them.

What if you don't use fire based build? You know there are dozens of builds to play, some of which will counter my fire-based build? Like, I can have a Photon which you don't have and it will make me better with energy weapons than you? I don't see the difference.

Originally posted by AlexKidd62FR:

Try playing at 3k ps and wait for a player using an harvester showing up then tell the Divine guy how his argument are non sense like he don't even try playing at different PS with the appropriate weapons.

I do. Which is why the term "seal-clubbing" doesnt make much sense to me. You do realize I've started from zero at some time, and plenty of people had better weapons in storage from Closed Beta I have never participated in? Yet here I am, slowly but steadily building my stock of legendaries.

Originally posted by Random™?:

divine knows he's wrong, he's just dug the hole too deep to admit it...theres no way someone can be that blind to whats happening that they cant reason with facts

It's so cute seeing someone so certain he knows what others think... yet you're the one who abandons one argument after another once you can no longer defend it. This thread is filled with them from the start.

So no, its you who are set yourself in the corner and unwilling to even entertain the idea that you can be wrong about anything. Not that I expected anything beyond that, mind you, because a good portion of Crossout players and more casual ones in general are not yet mature enough to handle saying "I was wrong here" or "you might have a point there", because their ego is vulnerable to admitting defeat. Older people like me usually stick with old-school stuff or prefer even more niche creative games, which are too difficult for younger folks to wrap their mind around. I can admit defeat easily, which is why I've persevered to learn and adapt, but you won't change my mind with the arguments this weak.

Originally posted by Random™?:

edit: i got seal clubbed when i started playing, i uninstalled the game for a good bit after that.... and i find myself taking higher tier weaponry into lower PS (nothing below 8k)..and i'll do it because the rewards are the same. it doesnt matter if you play at 4k or 14k.. the reward is based directly off your score in the match

Cool story bro. When I've just started playing, I have met people with Epic weapons around 4-5k PS, which was a significant contrast, considering that Special-grade rarity didn't exist yet. This is why I looked for teammates with tankier or stronger vehicles to pivot around and supported them, or worked from long-range using ACs and turreted cannons. Over time I've figured out how to position myself to stay out of harm's way and were able to craft my own Epics without much effort.

Over time, I've got a bit bored from using mobile wheeled and tracked vehicles, so I decided to buy the Arachnophobia pack. This was and still is the only pack I've bought in 4 years playing the game. I then gradually crafted my way into 2xEpic ACs and 3xExecutioners, which made two of my best long-range build for a long while. Then I returned a bit back into Equalizers, which I effectively used to counter stealth, but their damage potential back then was meh, so I crafted them into Retchers - those which were utter garbage back hen, but which I now use as my primary CW weapons.

Around tha time, the hover came. Those were the game changers for my mid-range support and artillery builds. I've gone into all sort of weapons and equipment, and practiced all sort of playstyles... except for melee. It was just too boring for me, and not that much better by success rate. Throughout the entire time, I've steadily progressed from the white crib to the 10k PS where I play now.

I do check the lower PS ranges when I begin to craft something new starting from Rare components, but my prior experience allows me to easiy beat people with any rarity weapons using the same tricks and behaviors from high PS. They're a bit too fast for my liking though, and I don't like lack of diversity and how predictable the process is, relatively speaking.

[S L A D M I R]

DivineEvil you need some milk

[Random™?]

Originally posted by DivineEvil:

Originally posted by AlexKidd62FR:

Teach me basic math? oups SORRRRRRYYYY it was just a bit below (and not for the blue though its more than double)

----

what weapon win? the one with highest fire rate + accuracy + durability like many many MP games no matter how much damage it deals. You'll get degunned in a sec.

So now would you quit debunking everyones arguments with YOUR silly non sense arguments just because you said it "it must be true" but all ppl that say otherwise are "WRONG" no dude you are wrong end of the story.

I try again if the game is not dead next year bye bye!

Won't even bother debunking your other arguments no time to waste sorry.

Aaaaand you have failed as expected.
Equalizer is not analogous to MGs. Equalizer is a completely different type of a weapon. This is why it has its durability. It does not have higher accuracy, because it cannot shoot in bursts like MGs can. Any even marginally competent Vector/Sinus user will disarm the Equalizer user 9 times out of 10. Equalizer is good for suppression and DPS, not disarming. And it takes double the PS to use as Vectors. Hell, you even brought up in-game abstract stats for the weapons, which exposes you as a complete noob...

Goodbye, sucker. See you in a year.

Originally posted by Random™?:

those are just the purple cabins that are pack exclusive that give advantage..

so to answer your question..

if you have a blight and i dont... you have a lot higher potential when using a fire based build than i do..

that is an advantage and youre lying to yourself to even think that its not.

Those are called perks. All purple cabins have them.

What if you don't use fire based build? You know there are dozens of builds to play, some of which will counter my fire-based build? Like, I can have a Photon which you don't have and it will make me better with energy weapons than you? I don't see the difference.

Originally posted by AlexKidd62FR:

Try playing at 3k ps and wait for a player using an harvester showing up then tell the Divine guy how his argument are non sense like he don't even try playing at different PS with the appropriate weapons.

I do. Which is why the term "seal-clubbing" doesnt make much sense to me. You do realize I've started from zero at some time, and plenty of people had better weapons in storage from Closed Beta I have never participated in? Yet here I am, slowly but steadily building my stock of legendaries.

Originally posted by Random™?:

divine knows he's wrong, he's just dug the hole too deep to admit it...theres no way someone can be that blind to whats happening that they cant reason with facts

It's so cute seeing someone so certain he knows what others think... yet you're the one who abandons one argument after another once you can no longer defend it. This thread is filled with them from the start.

So no, its you who are set yourself in the corner and unwilling to even entertain the idea that you can be wrong about anything. Not that I expected anything beyond that, mind you, because a good portion of Crossout players and more casual ones in general are not yet mature enough to handle saying "I was wrong here" or "you might have a point there", because their ego is vulnerable to admitting defeat. Older people like me usually stick with old-school stuff or prefer even more niche creative games, which are too difficult for younger folks to wrap their mind around. I can admit defeat easily, which is why I've persevered to learn and adapt, but you won't change my mind with the arguments this weak.

Originally posted by Random™?:

edit: i got seal clubbed when i started playing, i uninstalled the game for a good bit after that.... and i find myself taking higher tier weaponry into lower PS (nothing below 8k)..and i'll do it because the rewards are the same. it doesnt matter if you play at 4k or 14k.. the reward is based directly off your score in the match

Cool story bro. When I've just started playing, I have met people with Epic weapons around 4-5k PS, which was a significant contrast, considering that Special-grade rarity didn't exist yet. This is why I looked for teammates with tankier or stronger vehicles to pivot around and supported them, or worked from long-range using ACs and turreted cannons. Over time I've figured out how to position myself to stay out of harm's way and were able to craft my own Epics without much effort.

Over time, I've got a bit bored from using mobile wheeled and tracked vehicles, so I decided to buy the Arachnophobia pack. This was and still is the only pack I've bought in 4 years playing the game. I then gradually crafted my way into 2xEpic ACs and 3xExecutioners, which made two of my best long-range build for a long while. Then I returned a bit back into Equalizers, which I effectively used to counter stealth, but their damage potential back then was meh, so I crafted them into Retchers - those which were utter garbage back hen, but which I now use as my primary CW weapons.

Around tha time, the hover came. Those were the game changers for my mid-range support and artillery builds. I've gone into all sort of weapons and equipment, and practiced all sort of playstyles... except for melee. It was just too boring for me, and not that much better by success rate. Throughout the entire time, I've steadily progressed from the white crib to the 10k PS where I play now.

I do check the lower PS ranges when I begin to craft something new starting from Rare components, but my prior experience allows me to easiy beat people with any rarity weapons using the same tricks and behaviors from high PS. They're a bit too fast for my liking though, and I don't like lack of diversity and how predictable the process is, relatively speaking.

"those are called perks"... PERKS THAT ARE EXCLUSIVE TO PACK LOCKED CABINS....

my friend. my dear trolling delusional friend.... that is p2w. those items give you advantages that not every player has access to, for a monetary exchange..

who is paying you to be this ignorant?

your logic is "its only an advantage if you play those builds".. a blight fire dog will do better against a spider.. the legs dont resist fire.... so in all extenstive purposes.. a fire dog with blight is more effective than a melee build in majority of situations due to having a LARGE damage increase as not NEAR as many armor pieces resist flame damage

[DivineEvil]

Originally posted by Random™?:

"those are called perks"... PERKS THAT ARE EXCLUSIVE TO PACK LOCKED CABINS....

Yeah, except anyone can buy them from the market. You know the drill.

Originally posted by Random™?:

my friend. my dear trolling delusional friend.... that is p2w. those items give you advantages that not every player has access to, for a monetary exchange..

Using the market, everyone has access to them. In fact, they're
more accessible than if you'd have to grind specific faction's level to craft them.

Originally posted by Random™?:

who is paying you to be this ignorant?

Not answering loaded questions. But hey, at least you've actually asked one. Yay?

Originally posted by Random™?:

your logic is "its only an advantage if you play those builds".. a blight fire dog will do better against a spider.. the legs dont resist fire.... so in all extenstive purposes.. a fire dog with blight is more effective than a melee build in majority of situations due to having a LARGE damage increase as not NEAR as many armor pieces resist flame damage

That would be true if you'd knew who you're playing against. You don't. It doesn't matter whether it is regular PvP or CW - your ability to counter some things better or worse does not necessarily define the outcome. You build a craft combining weapons, armor, equipment and the cabin. They can amplify one-another, or not. What you have in the end is a setup, that counters certain setups and is contered by other setups, and work better or worse in conjunction with teammates and on certain maps. That's it. It doesn't matter whether the parts you're using have been paid for, were bought on the market or were crafted by you - someone else will counter you nonetheless, if they have enough skill to do so.

To summarize, I think you'd be right IF:
- Exclusive items were impossible to buy on the market. That would lock these parts to those who paid for them, permanently.
- Exclusive items were neglected in balance considerations. That would make them an obvious marketing bait to buy the packs.
- Composition of the enemy team would be preemptively obvious to actively counter them with specific builds in any game mode.

However, since neither of those cases correspond to reality, the game is not P2W. I can buy any exclusive part without paying anything. The supply is limited, but the prices are manageable and reached by player's consensus, not by devs. If I buy those parts and use them in a build, that build will compete against others with counter mechanics considering everyone as equals. If I use cabin/equipment/weapons that do not work together well, I do so to my own detriment, whether any of those parts are exclusive or not.

All of that put together denies both sides of the P2W - you do not need to pay anything to win, and paying won't make you win more often either.

[Random™?]

Originally posted by DivineEvil:

Originally posted by Random™?:

"those are called perks"... PERKS THAT ARE EXCLUSIVE TO PACK LOCKED CABINS....

Yeah, except anyone can buy them from the market. You know the drill.

not every player has access to them... not everyone can own a blight cabin without more packs being bought.. just because its not exclusive to the player who purchased it, does not mean that the game is not p2w. it just means that you can trade that advantage to another player

[DivineEvil]

Originally posted by Random™?:

not every player has access to them... not everyone can own a blight cabin without more packs being bought.. it just means that you can trade that advantage to another player

Evey player has access. Its that not everyone ever want to have one, but for those who do, anyone can. You earn the coins and you buy one. Nothing else is needed.

Originally posted by Random™?:

just because its not exclusive to the player who purchased it, does not mean that the game is not p2w.

It does mean exactly that. That's in the very definition of P2W - you pay to get an advantage over those who don't. Unless you broaden the definition to something completely unrelated, which I do not see the merit in doing.

And again, from a second part of the definition, the case for the advantage is still was not made, since all parts are balanced with the same ruler and synergize with one-another in the same manner, whether crafted and not. Exclusive items are different, not better.

[Random™?]

Originally posted by DivineEvil:

Originally posted by Random™?:

not every player has access to them... not everyone can own a blight cabin without more packs being bought.. it just means that you can trade that advantage to another player

Evey player has access. Its that not everyone ever want to have one, but for those who do, anyone can. You earn the coins and you buy one. Nothing else is needed.

Originally posted by Random™?:

just because its not exclusive to the player who purchased it, does not mean that the game is not p2w.

It does mean exactly that. That's in the very definition of P2W - you pay to get an advantage over those who don't. Unless you broaden the definition to something completely unrelated, which I do not see the merit in doing.

And again, from a second part of the definition, the case for the advantage is still was not made, since all parts are balanced with the same ruler and synergize with one-another in the same manner, whether crafted and not. Exclusive items are different, not better.

dude. not everyone can own a pack item at the same time.. that makes the game p2w. NOT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO IT. all craftable items can be replicated infinitely with no need for in game purchases.

pack items cannot be replicated without in game purchases.. meaning that theyre p2w exclusive items... if they were to add a craftable item with the same stats.. the game would no longer be p2w.

youre ignoring the fact that not everyone can own an item with limited availability

keep in mind that using the remedy flamethrower WITHOUT the blight cabin. was pretty ineffective when compared to using them WITH the blight cabin...

meaning you were limited to your effectiveness unless you got BOTH the pack locked weapon.. and the pack locked cabin...there isnt another epic flamethrower...

[DivineEvil]

Originally posted by Random™?:

dude. not everyone can own a pack item at the same time.. that makes the game p2w. NOT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO IT. all craftable items can be replicated infinitely with no need for in game purchases.

pack items cannot be replicated without in game purchases.. meaning that theyre p2w exclusive items... if they were to add a craftable item with the same stats.. the game would no longer be p2w.

youre ignoring the fact that not everyone can own an item with limited availability

I don't ignore it. I just also take into the account that not everyone will ever want to either. Every single item sold on the market by a person, who do not need it - items placed on the market for sale cannot be used. So in a sense you're the one ignoring the part of the equation, that allows anyone to have an exclusive part if they want to.

Even if I will grant you that not everyone can have an exclusive part (which would mean there's no exclusive parts), it is still not enough to justify labeling the game as P2W, because again, there's no advantage - just exclusivity. Market/supply advantage does not constitute a win in-game.

Look, I'm kinda tired of this back and forth, so lets just agree to disagree. I hope that you have got enough engagement to justify the creation of the thread.
Good luck with whatever you're up to.

[Random™?]

Originally posted by DivineEvil:

Originally posted by Random™?:

dude. not everyone can own a pack item at the same time.. that makes the game p2w. NOT EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO IT. all craftable items can be replicated infinitely with no need for in game purchases.

pack items cannot be replicated without in game purchases.. meaning that theyre p2w exclusive items... if they were to add a craftable item with the same stats.. the game would no longer be p2w.

youre ignoring the fact that not everyone can own an item with limited availability

I don't ignore it. I just also take into the account that not everyone will ever want to either. Every single item sold on the market by a person, who do not need it - items placed on the market for sale cannot be used. So in a sense you're the one ignoring the part of the equation, that allows anyone to have an exclusive part if they want to.

Even if I will grant you that not everyone can have an exclusive part (which would mean there's no exclusive parts), it is still not enough to justify labeling the game as P2W, because again, there's no advantage - just exclusivity. Market/supply advantage does not constitute a win in-game.

Look, I'm kinda tired of this back and forth, so lets just agree to disagree. I hope that you have got enough engagement to justify the creation of the thread.
Good luck with whatever you're up to.

just because its on the market, doesnt mean that someone doesnt want to use it, they may just value coins more than that particular item... no items on the market cannot be used. but theyre not being used by anyone. so theyre null

not everyone having access to the same items without purchasing it from someone who bought the pack (it all traces back to a single player who bought the pack) is what makes the game p2w...

a f2p player is reliant... extremely dependant.. i would almost say "at the mercy of"... people who pay.. there isnt a way to get coins in game naturally.. but coins are being taken out with every craft item.. every market sale.. etc..... meaning that the only new coins coming into the game are bought with real money.... those who buy the coins choose what/how/when to distribute them..

tell me how the game ISNT p2w.. with pack items that have exclusive perks

[Lénile Pupa]

Yes.

[Sanyavok]

Installed to see whats up and uninstalled after like 3 matches. Everybody running around with shotguns and 200 spikes. Very fun... oh and I see the chameleon instakill is still a thing.