the games meta is cancer

[Random™?]

right now the meta is
step 1. equip close range weapon
step 2. equip wheels
step 3. add armor.. it doesnt matter how much
step 4. HOLD W INTO YOU ENEMIES FACE!
step 5. aim in the general direction of their weapons
step 6. honk and be toxic to the player you just disarmed through you "great show of skill"

this has gone of far too long and the only weapon that can counter this gameplay... is a pack locked p2w item... (which atm of making this thread. is over 4k coins and only 12 for sale.. p2w item)

start rewarding skill and punishing braindead meta slaves.. (i know i know.. they wouldnt make money if they actually made you be good at the game)

[Random™?]

DivineEvil eredeti hozzászólása:

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

coming together means everyone is on the same page..

Well, that is not going to happen unless people begin to realize that labling people who disagrees with them with names goes directly against any degree of consensus, and that you can't just call something obvious and it suddenly only valid to admit it without question. This is as far from being skeptical and good-willing as one can go.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

all games have metas.. but when the meta gets to be toxic and unfun to play against.. the devs usually change it to make the game more enjoyable..."meta cannot arise from something that is difficult to execute.".... yes.. yes it can, and thats the ideal balance. players who practice the difficult mechanics are rewarded with the edge in combat.. there arent games where high performers are the average.. i agree... but there should also never be a game where the average player it outdoing a high performer due to using the meta...

No, no it cannot. Meta is something that is produced by the public, based on prolonged practice, as a method of achieving the most with the least. Because it requires the least, but achieves something worthwhile, it is when it becomes the observed meta.

Again, if you have even a single example where a high-skill approach becomes meta, you're welcome to provide it for further investigation.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

when i said "keep up with my teammates" i wasnt refering to speed, i was refering to engangement zones, since most of the maps have limited engagement distances, when they rush in to a close range area. im forced to either fight in that area with them... or sit on the outskirts of the fight and be an easy target for a close range build to catch me out..

It doesn't matter. When you know where those "close range areas" are, there's always a long-range position that allows you to exploit it. None of the maps are eclosed labyrinths of 20 meter rooms. Everything else depends solely on your knowledge of the said map and typical player's behavior, and your ability to adaprt to the situation at hand. You're never forced into melee, the melee is what comes to you when you're ignorant and do not plan ahead.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

the reason i said "easy to fix" is becuase all it would take it number tweeks.. lower damage of some weapons.. buff the hp of other weapons.. etc.. do small adjustments (lets say every week) until all weapon types are common to see and can all yield similar results

Numbers are being tweaked every balance pass, little by little. Anything else and you're bound to make stuff practically unusable. All weapons are common occurence, and whether they yield similar results depends on the players who uses them. If you suck on Autocannons, you will suck on them even with number tweaks, but better players will absolutely dominate the game.

This is why those balance changes has to be informed by the general use/success data over extensive research phases, which is what Crossout uses, not on biased opinions of select personalities.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

you call me arrogant and self-serving.. while you sit here on the forums and do the same.. you claim there are no issues what so ever.. to me.. thats selfish becuase im going to assume that your prefered gameplay style is what is meta.. the game cannot survive with change

What? When did I claim there's no issues? Quote please.
No, my preferred gameplay style is mobile fire support. My current blueprints for Missions are hover Aspects, ML-200 Executioners, hover Quasars, hover Assemblers, Bigram Kaiju, Tank-Track Whirls and a wheeled Yaoguai. The only time I play shotguns at all is for challenges, and still I just build a Clarinet TOW with those shotguns, so that I clear daily challenge for shotguns without actually using them. I do not like melee and do not play it, which is why I know everything there's to know how to counter them, and how they're not a problem.

So, its just yet another case, where your assumptions have failed you.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

and ive been collecting game clips ive recorded to show what happens.. usually its a situtaion of "yep, there wasnt much more you could have done there, their build is faster and better in close range. without a kapkan you wouldnt have been able to get away"

Yep, and I already can see that your mentality about is completely flawed, because you conclude that you're supposed to get away, as if that what you every supposed to do, and you don't even consider and try other solutions. This mentality is what causes ALL haters to make claims about A being OP/broken/toxic. You simply do not understand something, and the saddest part why you do not, is because you assume there's nothing to understand and everything is "obvious".

just to prove you wrong.. play tf2.. (team fortress 2).. and learn how to rocket jump.. tier 3 or higher.. and see how long that takes you to learn and be consistant..

"No, no it cannot. Meta is something that is produced by the public, based on prolonged practice, as a method of achieving the most with the least. Because it requires the least, but achieves something worthwhile, it is when it becomes the observed meta."

rocket jumping requires quite a bit of practice.. and it evolves the way you play the game..

telling me that people are going to use what gives the most reward for as little effort... shows that you dont actually understand what META is..

M-most
E-effective
T-tactic
A-avaliable

that means whatever is best that you have access to.. has nothing to do with the difficulty of using the meta.. is litterally what will reap the best results..

the issue that XO is in.. meta is the easiest thing to play.. making everything else much harder and limiting it as an option due to effectiveness.. it doesnt take much skill to use a close range build since positioning/aim/prediction/etc are thrown out the window...
all you need to know to use a close range build is angle of attack.. and timing.. countering which requires A LOT more effort. THAT is the issue

effort=rewards?.. right?.... nope this is XO.. youre trying real hard but not using meta.. yeah this guy who has no clue what he's doing is hold W at you with a build he got off the exhibition.. who rams into you and just holds the trigger down.. congrats! youre now dead to a player who was less skilled than you. what does that encourage? MORE people to go meta!

[DivineEvil]

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

im not paying attention? and its not just what kills me being the only things i notice.. often enough, im looking at my own team to see what type of builds are being used.. and most often, theyre close range builds, something that wants to ram its opponent...

And I look over my team EVERY match, so that I can understand what the likely behavior of that team will be, so that I can adapt. There's huge variation, and it is not really that common than even 4 of my teammates would be close-ranged. It is interesting so see how the game differs in your region from mine, so I encourage you to provide a 10-match rundown of what your teammates have at the start. I can do the same in response.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

saying "so what". just means that you 100% agree with the state of the game... making you a fanboy.. you refuse to see the issue with the state of the game. the only thing youve done on this forum is defend the game.. ive yet to see you criticize ANYTHING about the game

Just wow. Have you ever actually asked what my issues with the game are? How does it feel to look upon your own assertions you make about a stranger face-to-face? You have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea what my issues about the game are. You just assert what is comfortable for you to think about me.

And again, I do not defend the game - I challenge the statements about the game I see as invalid and/or unsubstantiated. The game does not need my defense. And the reason why I do not criticize anything about the game here, is because it is MEANINGLESS. Developers do not read these forums - they have enough problems managing official ones. What I'm writing here is not for the devs or for their sake - its for the players like you, who think they've got it all right, even though they stack assumptions on top of one another in justification for their emotional reactions.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

im not asking for maps without cover.. but.. maps shouldnt have so much cover that a shot over 150m is rare... these maps typically whats called "engagement zones" which is where the teams meet up and start the fight.. these engagement zones often have a lot of clutter making long range shots unreliable.. meaning that close range builds.. have the advantages..

Well, you've introduced your opinions for the maps, starting with the Bridge. Please tell me which "engagement zones" are there and how they're cluttered. Be my guest.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

meta isnt always easy to execute. maybe in the games you play.. but ive played games where learning a meta mechanic.. requires several hundred hours of practice, to get the basic down... and the ones that practice it, often use it as a warmup...

Unless you actually provide an example, this rhetoric is completely worthless. Considering you still haven't done so is also telling.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

"the opponent will be in them".. umm.. are you going to ask them politely through a private message 1 by 1 for them to use the route that gives you the OPPORTUNITY to fire at them?

Do you think RL snipers ask politely for their targets to be in the firing positions? Or are snipers expect them to be in a location and choose a position accordingly?

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

what im asking for is balance.. since the maps are catered to close range builds.. perhaps make them not as deadly in those close ranges..

Why not? They're crossed the entire map full of points, where they could've taken preliminary damange and even lost some of their weapons - aren't the weapons with the smallest effective ranges in the game deserve to be lethal in those ranges? And if you are letting yourself being caught alone by a melee brawler, will that even make any difference? Because if you're "caught" by that brawler in the middle of your teammates, that brawler is toast.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

when playing a short ranged build, you can avoid open sightlines where you have the disadvantage.. but as a long range player, you cannot stay in these open lanes without your opponent being able to get near you without exposing themselves on a MAJORITY of maps..

Well no, you can't. That the point of those sightlines. The only thing that can keep you safe there is stealth, which is countered by map awareness, MG-like weapons, Verifiers, etc. This is the reality on the majority of maps.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

you ask how far this will go until the game is stripped of any choices.. OPEN YOUR EYES.. its stripped of choices right now..

Strange... why am I capable of having a 7/10 winrate with 2+ kill-average score without playing your so-despised meta then? Are you sure you're not the one who need to open their eye here?

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

just played a game... my team had 2x nova/bigram/mgs.. a breaker build.. and a scorp player, and a hover/porc. (i was using assemblers)....the opposing team had 2x nova/bigram/mg builds aswell.. a cannon player.. and a mandrake player. and a hurricane player... guess who won... by a large margin..

The team who played better? Because as far as I can tell, aside from this "data" being completely irrelevant for a guess (unless you making it with a massive preexisting bias), it would depend entirely on who played their role better, and it can easily go either way. Other 6x not mentioned were bots? What was the map? How did each team behaved?

[Random™?]

DivineEvil eredeti hozzászólása:

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

im not paying attention? and its not just what kills me being the only things i notice.. often enough, im looking at my own team to see what type of builds are being used.. and most often, theyre close range builds, something that wants to ram its opponent...

And I look over my team EVERY match, so that I can understand what the likely behavior of that team will be, so that I can adapt. There's huge variation, and it is not really that common than even 4 of my teammates would be close-ranged. It is interesting so see how the game differs in your region from mine, so I encourage you to provide a 10-match rundown of what your teammates have at the start. I can do the same in response.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

saying "so what". just means that you 100% agree with the state of the game... making you a fanboy.. you refuse to see the issue with the state of the game. the only thing youve done on this forum is defend the game.. ive yet to see you criticize ANYTHING about the game

Just wow. Have you ever actually asked what my issues with the game are? How does it feel to look upon your own assertions you make about a stranger face-to-face? You have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea what my issues about the game are. You just assert what is comfortable for you to think about me.

And again, I do not defend the game - I challenge the statements about the game I see as invalid and/or unsubstantiated. The game does not need my defense. And the reason why I do not criticize anything about the game here, is because it is MEANINGLESS. Developers do not read these forums - they have enough problems managing official ones. What I'm writing here is not for the devs or for their sake - its for the players like you, who think they've got it all right, even though they stack assumptions on top of one another in justification for their emotional reactions.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

im not asking for maps without cover.. but.. maps shouldnt have so much cover that a shot over 150m is rare... these maps typically whats called "engagement zones" which is where the teams meet up and start the fight.. these engagement zones often have a lot of clutter making long range shots unreliable.. meaning that close range builds.. have the advantages..

Well, you've introduced your opinions for the maps, starting with the Bridge. Please tell me which "engagement zones" are there and how they're cluttered. Be my guest.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

meta isnt always easy to execute. maybe in the games you play.. but ive played games where learning a meta mechanic.. requires several hundred hours of practice, to get the basic down... and the ones that practice it, often use it as a warmup...

Unless you actually provide an example, this rhetoric is completely worthless. Considering you still haven't done so is also telling.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

"the opponent will be in them".. umm.. are you going to ask them politely through a private message 1 by 1 for them to use the route that gives you the OPPORTUNITY to fire at them?

Do you think RL snipers ask politely for their targets to be in the firing positions? Or are snipers expect them to be in a location and choose a position accordingly?

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

what im asking for is balance.. since the maps are catered to close range builds.. perhaps make them not as deadly in those close ranges..

Why not? They're crossed the entire map full of points, where they could've taken preliminary damange and even lost some of their weapons - aren't the weapons with the smallest effective ranges in the game deserve to be lethal in those ranges? And if you are letting yourself being caught alone by a melee brawler, will that even make any difference? Because if you're "caught" by that brawler in the middle of your teammates, that brawler is toast.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

when playing a short ranged build, you can avoid open sightlines where you have the disadvantage.. but as a long range player, you cannot stay in these open lanes without your opponent being able to get near you without exposing themselves on a MAJORITY of maps..

Well no, you can't. That the point of those sightlines. The only thing that can keep you safe there is stealth, which is countered by map awareness, MG-like weapons, Verifiers, etc. This is the reality on the majority of maps.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

you ask how far this will go until the game is stripped of any choices.. OPEN YOUR EYES.. its stripped of choices right now..

Strange... why am I capable of having a 7/10 winrate with 2+ kill-average score without playing your so-despised meta then? Are you sure you're not the one who need to open their eye here?

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

just played a game... my team had 2x nova/bigram/mgs.. a breaker build.. and a scorp player, and a hover/porc. (i was using assemblers)....the opposing team had 2x nova/bigram/mg builds aswell.. a cannon player.. and a mandrake player. and a hurricane player... guess who won... by a large margin..

The team who played better? Because as far as I can tell, aside from this "data" being completely irrelevant for a guess (unless you making it with a massive preexisting bias), it would depend entirely on who played their role better, and it can easily go either way. Other 6x not mentioned were bots? What was the map? How did each team behaved?

seeing variety in the weapon types doesnt mean much if the gameplay is still the same.. like i said, im gathering clips of all the "they rammed into them to have an easier kill" issues.. generally theyre close range builds.. but i also have some clips where the 200m from my verifier gave me enough time to TURN to face my soon-to-be killer... 200m can be covered pretty quick when your build is 90kmh+...

and i would feel the same. if someone said something negative about any give thing that you instantly jumped to defending it... my assumption of you would be the same.. and my opinion on the matter would remain true until you give me a reason to change it.. you havnt criticized anything about the game.. defended it against people expressing that its p2w... and now youre here saying "the meta isnt the issue... theres ways to counter it".. when the only way to reliably counter it without being EXTREMELY better than you opponent... is a pack locked item that costs 4k coins..

as for the engagement zone... youve proven that you dont read all of what i type.. becuase would have noticed the word "often".. in there.. nice try though..

i gave you an example of a game where meta requires a lot of practice... and it was posted before you made that statement. which tells me that you didnt read it before replying..

your analogy of sniper's asking their opponents to stay in visable areas is ironic... becuase the " Or are snipers expect them to be in a location and choose a position accordingly?" aspect would be true... IF THE MAPS COULD SUPPORT IT... a IRL sniper isnt going to take the shot and give away their position if they cant hit it reliably... and if they cant find a suitable area to shoot from due to coverage. different methods are used... which supports my claims of the maps heavily suiting closer ranged builds.. and why you might see so many of those said builds

(a lot of people have shown interest in turning the adventure mode's map.. into a playable pvp experience with high team count.. the map is massive and has a lot of different areas. though it may be a bit too open to encourage all builds.. placing cover ON the ojective areas would suffice... leaving close range builds at a heavy disadvantage in the open.. while giving them the advantage in a different area... )

you say that "they crossed the entire map".. you act like that means something.. most of these maps can be crossed in 10 seconds.. as i stated. theyre are typically routes that keep them behind cover while they close the gap.. and "they could have taken prelimary damage...bla bla bla"... thats the POINT of long range weapons.. if i was able to strip their weapon from across the map. that means that i was skilled enough as a player to take a cross map shot on a relatively small... MOVING target.. and i was to remind you that there isnt a weapon in game that has the potentional to take off a weapon in a single shot at those ranges... that isnt a projectile. meaning you also have to lead your shot on that moving target...

and there you go again just saying "nope, thats not how that works".. give me an example.. show me video proof that you can force a player to expose themselves at 200m+ range... because i can show proof that im able to cross and entire map without taking damage unless i run into someone who is taking the same route i am.. for the same reason i am.. and even then.. if your build is fast enough.. 10 seconds of cloak can let you go pretty far..

oh.. if youre able to go 7/10 with 2+ kills a game playing against the meta... either prove it.. or im just going to say that i go 15/10 with 10 kills per game and an average score of 1,000,000... i'd love to see whatever youre doing, and see how it differs

and our team won.. not becuase we played better.. because our team just held W at their team. and since we had more close range builds... we won.. their cannon/drake/hurricane players were constantly having to create distance making it harder for them to actively be part of the fight.. and the cannon/drake players died before their frontline did becuase 1 of our melee builds chose to kill them..

but really, i'd love to see some recordings of your gameplay, raw footage that shows exactly how youre getting the stats you say you are..

[Fallenbox]

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

DivineEvil eredeti hozzászólása:

And I look over my team EVERY match, so that I can understand what the likely behavior of that team will be, so that I can adapt. There's huge variation, and it is not really that common than even 4 of my teammates would be close-ranged. It is interesting so see how the game differs in your region from mine, so I encourage you to provide a 10-match rundown of what your teammates have at the start. I can do the same in response.

Just wow. Have you ever actually asked what my issues with the game are? How does it feel to look upon your own assertions you make about a stranger face-to-face? You have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea what my issues about the game are. You just assert what is comfortable for you to think about me.

And again, I do not defend the game - I challenge the statements about the game I see as invalid and/or unsubstantiated. The game does not need my defense. And the reason why I do not criticize anything about the game here, is because it is MEANINGLESS. Developers do not read these forums - they have enough problems managing official ones. What I'm writing here is not for the devs or for their sake - its for the players like you, who think they've got it all right, even though they stack assumptions on top of one another in justification for their emotional reactions.

Well, you've introduced your opinions for the maps, starting with the Bridge. Please tell me which "engagement zones" are there and how they're cluttered. Be my guest.

Unless you actually provide an example, this rhetoric is completely worthless. Considering you still haven't done so is also telling.

Do you think RL snipers ask politely for their targets to be in the firing positions? Or are snipers expect them to be in a location and choose a position accordingly?

Why not? They're crossed the entire map full of points, where they could've taken preliminary damange and even lost some of their weapons - aren't the weapons with the smallest effective ranges in the game deserve to be lethal in those ranges? And if you are letting yourself being caught alone by a melee brawler, will that even make any difference? Because if you're "caught" by that brawler in the middle of your teammates, that brawler is toast.

Well no, you can't. That the point of those sightlines. The only thing that can keep you safe there is stealth, which is countered by map awareness, MG-like weapons, Verifiers, etc. This is the reality on the majority of maps.

Strange... why am I capable of having a 7/10 winrate with 2+ kill-average score without playing your so-despised meta then? Are you sure you're not the one who need to open their eye here?

The team who played better? Because as far as I can tell, aside from this "data" being completely irrelevant for a guess (unless you making it with a massive preexisting bias), it would depend entirely on who played their role better, and it can easily go either way. Other 6x not mentioned were bots? What was the map? How did each team behaved?

seeing variety in the weapon types doesnt mean much if the gameplay is still the same.. like i said, im gathering clips of all the "they rammed into them to have an easier kill" issues.. generally theyre close range builds.. but i also have some clips where the 200m from my verifier gave me enough time to TURN to face my soon-to-be killer... 200m can be covered pretty quick when your build is 90kmh+...

and i would feel the same. if someone said something negative about any give thing that you instantly jumped to defending it... my assumption of you would be the same.. and my opinion on the matter would remain true until you give me a reason to change it.. you havnt criticized anything about the game.. defended it against people expressing that its p2w... and now youre here saying "the meta isnt the issue... theres ways to counter it".. when the only way to reliably counter it without being EXTREMELY better than you opponent... is a pack locked item that costs 4k coins..

as for the engagement zone... youve proven that you dont read all of what i type.. becuase would have noticed the word "often".. in there.. nice try though..

i gave you an example of a game where meta requires a lot of practice... and it was posted before you made that statement. which tells me that you didnt read it before replying..

your analogy of sniper's asking their opponents to stay in visable areas is ironic... becuase the " Or are snipers expect them to be in a location and choose a position accordingly?" aspect would be true... IF THE MAPS COULD SUPPORT IT... a IRL sniper isnt going to take the shot and give away their position if they cant hit it reliably... and if they cant find a suitable area to shoot from due to coverage. different methods are used... which supports my claims of the maps heavily suiting closer ranged builds.. and why you might see so many of those said builds

(a lot of people have shown interest in turning the adventure mode's map.. into a playable pvp experience with high team count.. the map is massive and has a lot of different areas. though it may be a bit too open to encourage all builds.. placing cover ON the ojective areas would suffice... leaving close range builds at a heavy disadvantage in the open.. while giving them the advantage in a different area... )

you say that "they crossed the entire map".. you act like that means something.. most of these maps can be crossed in 10 seconds.. as i stated. theyre are typically routes that keep them behind cover while they close the gap.. and "they could have taken prelimary damage...bla bla bla"... thats the POINT of long range weapons.. if i was able to strip their weapon from across the map. that means that i was skilled enough as a player to take a cross map shot on a relatively small... MOVING target.. and i was to remind you that there isnt a weapon in game that has the potentional to take off a weapon in a single shot at those ranges... that isnt a projectile. meaning you also have to lead your shot on that moving target...

and there you go again just saying "nope, thats not how that works".. give me an example.. show me video proof that you can force a player to expose themselves at 200m+ range... because i can show proof that im able to cross and entire map without taking damage unless i run into someone who is taking the same route i am.. for the same reason i am.. and even then.. if your build is fast enough.. 10 seconds of cloak can let you go pretty far..

oh.. if youre able to go 7/10 with 2+ kills a game playing against the meta... either prove it.. or im just going to say that i go 15/10 with 10 kills per game and an average score of 1,000,000... i'd love to see whatever youre doing, and see how it differs

and our team won.. not becuase we played better.. because our team just held W at their team. and since we had more close range builds... we won.. their cannon/drake/hurricane players were constantly having to create distance making it harder for them to actively be part of the fight.. and the cannon/drake players died before their frontline did becuase 1 of our melee builds chose to kill them..

but really, i'd love to see some recordings of your gameplay, raw footage that shows exactly how youre getting the stats you say you are..

He probably spended money on the game so hes willing to take the bullet, or just some one who use those meta builds we are talking about and need absolutely to prove how "itz N0t Chees3 bu1lDz, itS sKiLLZ bR0"
Just trust me don't waste time on crossout or any of its topics, game is just trash at this point and even arguing is a waste of time, doesn't take much to get the ♥♥♥♥ state the game is at the moment, and this was even supposed to be an MMO, a Massive Multiplayer Game, ahaha hilarious. One day people are gonna realize how much time has been wasted on this cash grab, pretty much just like the majority of poor managed F2P games.

[DivineEvil]

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

just to prove you wrong.. play tf2.. (team fortress 2).. and learn how to rocket jump.. tier 3 or higher.. and see how long that takes you to learn and be consistant..

Expect that rocket-jumping is not a tactic. It's just a trick specific to a weapon. I wonder if you were even born at the time when it originally was practiced in Quake.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

rocket jumping requires quite a bit of practice.. and it evolves the way you play the game..

Ahahaahahahaha... rocket-jumping is so meta. God, this is hilarious.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

telling me that people are going to use what gives the most reward for as little effort... shows that you dont actually understand what META is..

M-most
E-effective
T-tactic
A-avaliable

that means whatever is best that you have access to.. has nothing to do with the difficulty of using the meta.. is litterally what will reap the best results..

I know you were trying to get to this point desperately to "prove your superior knowledge", but again, you wrong.

Meta is a term for self-referrential analysis, observation and exploration of the activity or subject as from an outsider's perspective. When applied to gaming, to form the original term "metagame", it is any judgment that is made about oneself playing the game from the position of observing the game. When a large amount of players see something as an accessible solution to the game's objective, it becomes meta. When the few more skillful players discover some particular solution and excel at it reliably, this is usually called "niche". Meta is not an acronym, and it never was.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

the issue that XO is in.. meta is the easiest thing to play.. making everything else much harder and limiting it as an option due to effectiveness.. it doesnt take much skill to use a close range build since positioning/aim/prediction/etc are thrown out the window...
all you need to know to use a close range build is angle of attack.. and timing.. countering which requires A LOT more effort. THAT is the issue

Anything that would be easiest thing to play in XO will almost immediately become meta.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

effort=rewards?.. right?.... nope this is XO.. youre trying real hard but not using meta.. yeah this guy who has no clue what he's doing is hold W at you with a build he got off the exhibition.. who rams into you and just holds the trigger down.. congrats! youre now dead to a player who was less skilled than you. what does that encourage? MORE people to go meta!

Well, that is fair considering all the distance that unskilled player had to cover before getting to me. Actually, my predominant and most successful playstyle is making sure that actually won't happen. Tracking with Doppler and suppression with MGs leaves no chance for stealth. If they manage to get to me and kill me, thats my bad first and foremost, they have outplayed me, and meta is irrelevant.

Gosh, now it feels like you just cannot tolerate people, who are not tryhards like you supposedly are. It's kinda disgusting, to be honest...

[Random™?]

DivineEvil eredeti hozzászólása:

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

just to prove you wrong.. play tf2.. (team fortress 2).. and learn how to rocket jump.. tier 3 or higher.. and see how long that takes you to learn and be consistant..

Expect that rocket-jumping is not a tactic. It's just a trick specific to a weapon. I wonder if you were even born at the time when it originally was practiced in Quake.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

rocket jumping requires quite a bit of practice.. and it evolves the way you play the game..

Ahahaahahahaha... rocket-jumping is so meta. God, this is hilarious.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

telling me that people are going to use what gives the most reward for as little effort... shows that you dont actually understand what META is..

M-most
E-effective
T-tactic
A-avaliable

that means whatever is best that you have access to.. has nothing to do with the difficulty of using the meta.. is litterally what will reap the best results..

I know you were trying to get to this point desperately to "prove your superior knowledge", but again, you wrong.

Meta is a term for self-referrential analysis, observation and exploration of the activity or subject as from an outsider's perspective. When applied to gaming, to form the original term "metagame", it is any judgment that is made about oneself playing the game from the position of observing the game. When a large amount of players see something as an accessible solution to the game's objective, it becomes meta. When the few more skillful players discover some particular solution and excel at it reliably, this is usually called "niche". Meta is not an acronym, and it never was.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

the issue that XO is in.. meta is the easiest thing to play.. making everything else much harder and limiting it as an option due to effectiveness.. it doesnt take much skill to use a close range build since positioning/aim/prediction/etc are thrown out the window...
all you need to know to use a close range build is angle of attack.. and timing.. countering which requires A LOT more effort. THAT is the issue

Anything that would be easiest thing to play in XO will almost immediately become meta.

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

effort=rewards?.. right?.... nope this is XO.. youre trying real hard but not using meta.. yeah this guy who has no clue what he's doing is hold W at you with a build he got off the exhibition.. who rams into you and just holds the trigger down.. congrats! youre now dead to a player who was less skilled than you. what does that encourage? MORE people to go meta!

Well, that is fair considering all the distance that unskilled player had to cover before getting to me. Actually, my predominant and most successful playstyle is making sure that actually won't happen. Tracking with Doppler and suppression with MGs leaves no chance for stealth. If they manage to get to me and kill me, thats my bad first and foremost, they have outplayed me, and meta is irrelevant.

Gosh, now it feels like you just cannot tolerate people, who are not tryhards like you supposedly are. It's kinda disgusting, to be honest...

"rocket jumping is so meta, god this is hilarious".. you just showed your lack of knowledge of 2 games know..

edit: "rocket jumping isnt a tactic".. youre right, its more than that.. its half the class of soldier.. they introduced an unlock that does 0 damage in order to rocket jump with less self damage... majority of soldier players default to using that unlock.. but no.. its not a tactic-and for you to say its not a tactic means that proper movement in XO isnt a tactic either

im aware that it started in quake. but taking the 2nd slowest class in game and giving him the best mobility is litterally meta... you are using the most effective tactic possible.. you just proved to me that you dont understand the words that youre speaking and all other arguements from you are now null.. im not even going to read further, youve already made a laughing stock out of yourself

[ZT Xperimentor]

Near every pvp centric game has a toxic meta thanks to biased balancing, some are more obviously egregious than others.

[Random™?]

ZT Xperimentor eredeti hozzászólása:

Near every pvp centric game has a toxic meta thanks to biased balancing, some are more obviously egregious than others.

this is true. most games do have a meta that is annoying to play against.. but generally speaking, those metas dont last too long. just due to the backlash from the community

i mentioned something about drones being unfun to play against (the anni drones flying directly above your cabin makes shooting them off yourself quite difficult due to the fire angle limitation of most weapons)..

and someone, who wasnt even the same person from the battle... instantly said "hmmm yes. i love drone tears"...

this shows that people dont do it because its good... they do it to ruin someone else's fun. NO game should ever have anything of that nature in game.

i had a shotgun player disarm me.... then proceeed to ram into me (i play hovers so i get pushed pretty easy) over and over without shooting me and just spamming the horn..

its almost impossible to stop griefing.. but giving players EASY and GOOD ways to grief=bad developers.. its toxic gameplay.. that allowed toxic players to be well.. toxic

[ZT Xperimentor]

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

ZT Xperimentor eredeti hozzászólása:

Near every pvp centric game has a toxic meta thanks to biased balancing, some are more obviously egregious than others.

this is true. most games do have a meta that is annoying to play against.. but generally speaking, those metas dont last too long. just due to the backlash from the community

i mentioned something about drones being unfun to play against (the anni drones flying directly above your cabin makes shooting them off yourself quite difficult due to the fire angle limitation of most weapons)..

and someone, who wasnt even the same person from the battle... instantly said "hmmm yes. i love drone tears"...

this shows that people dont do it because its good... they do it to ruin someone else's fun. NO game should ever have anything of that nature in game.

i had a shotgun player disarm me.... then proceeed to ram into me (i play hovers so i get pushed pretty easy) over and over without shooting me and just spamming the horn..

its almost impossible to stop griefing.. but giving players EASY and GOOD ways to grief=bad developers.. its toxic gameplay.. that allowed toxic players to be well.. toxic

Indeed, though I've never seen such a positive shift in any esport focused game, the exceptions always being due to some clear gamebreaking exploit or bug.

However here I'll point out wedges, they haven't always used shotguns, but they've always abused the physics engine; been an issue for years, the traction update didn't really address it and I doubt the upcoming torque change will either.

[Random™?]

ZT Xperimentor eredeti hozzászólása:

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

this is true. most games do have a meta that is annoying to play against.. but generally speaking, those metas dont last too long. just due to the backlash from the community

i mentioned something about drones being unfun to play against (the anni drones flying directly above your cabin makes shooting them off yourself quite difficult due to the fire angle limitation of most weapons)..

and someone, who wasnt even the same person from the battle... instantly said "hmmm yes. i love drone tears"...

this shows that people dont do it because its good... they do it to ruin someone else's fun. NO game should ever have anything of that nature in game.

i had a shotgun player disarm me.... then proceeed to ram into me (i play hovers so i get pushed pretty easy) over and over without shooting me and just spamming the horn..

its almost impossible to stop griefing.. but giving players EASY and GOOD ways to grief=bad developers.. its toxic gameplay.. that allowed toxic players to be well.. toxic

Indeed, though I've never seen such a positive shift in any esport focused game, the exceptions always being due to some clear gamebreaking exploit or bug.

However here I'll point out wedges, they haven't always used shotguns, but they've always abused the physics engine; been an issue for years, the traction update didn't really address it and I doubt the upcoming torque change will either.

i pointed out close range builds in my orginal post for a reason. mgs still shred weapons off quickly. the issues come with the "im gunna ram my face into them and make them driving difficult". so the counterplay of out-driving your opponent becomes a lot harder..

as i stated, i used hovers so someone ramming into me completely removes my ability to control myself, and since most weapon have slow turn speeds (shotguns and mgs being the fastest) and time someone can ram your throws off your aim while they have an easy time killing a target that cant drive properly

[S L A D M I R]

as a half-time fire-dog user I have to say, that I though it's going to be better that it is in reality. Dogs just look OP, but once you use them, they ain't anymore.

How it feels to play dog?
You press W and go head on into
enemy - you die before getting frag.

Actually playing this requires brain. You must think, where to hit in order to get frags. Risk is always big (literally everyone focusses on dog, once it deckloaks), but it pays off.

[S L A D M I R]

S L ∆ D M I R eredeti hozzászólása:

How it feels to play dog?
You press W and go head on into
enemy - you die before getting frag.

Huge majority of dog users prefer this tactic. Basically its suicide for them, even if they kill the unlucky one, their rampage will end on next vehicle. Very similar to lance builds.

[UCEY]

Don't you know, you have to pay $500 every week in this game to get gud at it!!!!11!11!11!!

[Random™?]

S L ∆ D M I R eredeti hozzászólása:

as a half-time fire-dog user I have to say, that I though it's going to be better that it is in reality. Dogs just look OP, but once you use them, they ain't anymore.

How it feels to play dog?
You press W and go head on into
enemy - you die before getting frag.

Actually playing this requires brain. You must think, where to hit in order to get frags. Risk is always big (literally everyone focusses on dog, once it deckloaks), but it pays off.

ive played a dog.. the skills needed to play a dog are much less than skills to play anything else.. all you need is timing and angle of attack.. if you struggle to play a dog. im sorry man but you need to practice and learn how to flank

[S L A D M I R]

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

ive played a dog.. the skills needed to play a dog are much less than skills to play anything else..

that's true, but playing anything else loses it's rationality, when there are so many nerfs and changes. I hate gaijin for that.
First, explosives rework and wasp nerf - i had to change my setup.
Then they nerfed wedge and favorite cab - i dumped so much money into this, and everything lost.
And now, the engine reworks - so i lost collosus perk and my cannon build goes to ♥♥♥♥, cuz it reloads not fast enoguh, it's not unplayable, but I guess you get my point. After that whole ♥♥♥♥ i was like 'ok im goin meta now'

Random™? eredeti hozzászólása:

if you struggle to play a dog. im sorry man but you need to practice and learn how to flank

Only thing I struggle with, is mid setup with 40 fps and broken keyboard xD