Wedge Fix

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

EDIT: Here are some ideas!

Originally posted by Vulture:

well, as u say with weight limit, a car that can handle 20t and "wedges" a car of 25t it should simply lock to the ground. Suspension shoulnd be able to handle it on front wheels.

Originally posted by Ryuu:

I've actually heard a good suggestion: make wheels take damage when they get overloaded with mass(including external from another vehicle).

ORIGINAL:
So when are you guys going to fix the weight mechanic? Little 'wedge' builds should not be able to flip my 25t tank as if it weighs absolutely nothing. Basically 90% of people are using these 'wedge' builds in higher PS battles, and frankly, it's disgusting.

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

Originally posted by Ryuu:

Except that way we might get antiwedge plague instead - people driving over you to break your wheels :hee:
But it's a lesser problem cuz they would likely be highly exposed to your weapons and also they might have vulnerable explosive parts underneath. Hehe.

Well unless you have a wedge build no one is going to be driving on top of you, so it'd be your own fault if you get crushed. Speaking of crushing, walker legs should be able to walk on and damage enemies.

[Ryuu]

Originally posted by Ⓣ☯Ⓜ:

Well unless you have a wedge build no one is going to be driving on top of you, so it'd be your own fault if you get crushed. Speaking of crushing, walker legs should be able to walk on and damage enemies.

No, imagine turning wedge upside down with hanging parts, now it's easy to crush enemies.

Actually you can get on top of vehicles with legs, take any legged design to a test-drive and then use strafe(Q/E) near your vehicle to get on top. Looks fun, like a giant headcrab
Well, it would be nice perk for it, but legs have too little speed and rotation to be useful for that.

[Foxassassin]

Is this conversation still going on?. It's a design. Something that's simple and works.
People here ever seen Battlebots/Robot wars? Wedges. Because they work.

But they can be countered the same as any other design. Make your vehicle heavier. Or faster,out meneuver them. Or don't let them get that close to begin with. Undermount a shotgun or melee part,or mount them to where they can shoot someone pushing you. Use sloped blocks yourself to counter wedges. Smaller wheels to lower your ride hight. Shift your center of mass so it's harder for them to get your wheels off the ground. We are free to build whatever we want here,and if something is popular,change your design to strike against it.

Is it perfect? No. But as questionable as the physics are in this game,Car on Car is not one of the big concerns

[Ryuu]

Originally posted by Foxassassin:

Or faster,out meneuver them. Or don't let them get that close to begin with. Undermount a shotgun or melee part,or mount them to where they can shoot someone pushing you. Use sloped blocks yourself to counter wedges. Smaller wheels to lower your ride hight. Shift your center of mass so it's harder for them to get your wheels off the ground. We are free to build whatever we want here,and if something is popular,change your design to strike against it.

Is it perfect? No. But as questionable as the physics are in this game,Car on Car is not one of the big concerns

Making it heavy does not work with current physics but those advices are good and feasible, most wedges are slow and not maneuverable.

People totally can't keep their distances in this game. Stay at distance that is effective for you but not for your enemy. Avoid enemies that are too dangerous for you, pounce on ones that are vulnerable.

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

Originally posted by Foxassassin:

Is this conversation still going on?. It's a design. Something that's simple and works.
People here ever seen Battlebots/Robot wars? Wedges. Because they work.

But they can be countered the same as any other design. Make your vehicle heavier. Or faster,out meneuver them. Or don't let them get that close to begin with. Undermount a shotgun or melee part,or mount them to where they can shoot someone pushing you. Use sloped blocks yourself to counter wedges. Smaller wheels to lower your ride hight. Shift your center of mass so it's harder for them to get your wheels off the ground. We are free to build whatever we want here,and if something is popular,change your design to strike against it.

Is it perfect? No. But as questionable as the physics are in this game,Car on Car is not one of the big concerns

None of this is helpful. Here is why:
Robot Wars? This is not Robot Wars. These vehicles can weigh over 20,000 kg. Vehicles and tanks in the real world don't use wedges like this. Just because exploiting the dodgy weight mechanics in the game works, doesn't mean you should, and does mean it should get fixed.

Like Ryuu said weight doesn't make a difference. I've got a 25,000 kg tank that is long and wide and it still gets flipped/driven under as if it weighs nothing. I have already stated that in the OP.

Changing your build to 'counter' them will barely do that, and just give yourself even more of a disadvantage. Undermounting a shotgun/melee part - there's so much wrong with that. Firstly it would only(maybe) work when driven under, and give you less overall energy to spend on other things, but it will also get shot off instantly against their shotguns.

Use sloped armour? That's lowering myself to their level. I'll not join the mass of exploit/abuse players out there, and I shouldn't have to. Developers need to fix the problem.

Smaller wheels? Firstly, I use tracks, and secondly, smaller wheels will get shot off instantly. There's a reason most wheels used at least in higher PS battles are the Large wheels.

Shifting centre off mass will just mean the cabin is way more exposed and won't help against shotguns either, in addition to the fact that weight means nothing as I(and Ryuu) previously mentioned.

Remember, just because you *can*, doesn't mean you *should*. It's pathetic to see everyone(most) using the same wedge design regardless of the rest of their build. No honour, no originality. Just pure greed, doing everything they can to have an edge. I seriously hope the developers realise they need to fix this.

As mentioned before in other posts, having too much weight on your vehicle(while driving under someone) should either A) Stop them moving completely, or extremely slowly like when the mass limit is reached - or B) Damage the vehicle continously while they are being crushed by a vehicle on top of them. Either way, the way things are now is totally unrealistic, while the game tries and wants to be realistic(and the game does not seem to be played in outer space, so gravity should be normal).

[Alizarin]

Car jacks and make your leviathan flatter. Or ditch leviathans for trusty old cars.

[Ryuu]

Originally posted by Leila Alizarin:

Car jacks and make your leviathan flatter. Or ditch leviathans for trusty old cars.

Well, mainly discussion is about normal cars used in pvp. Nobody but me mentioned Leviathans. And car jacks don't work against lifting on normal cars, which is actually curious why they do work on Levis.

BTW you probably do know that you can't drive Leviathans against other players yourself? Your suggestion seems misinformed.

[Alizarin]

Originally posted by Ryuu:

Well, mainly discussion is about normal cars used in pvp. Nobody but me mentioned Leviathans. And car jacks don't work against lifting on normal cars, which is actually curious why they do work on Levis.

BTW you probably do know that you can't drive Leviathans against other players yourself? Your suggestion seems misinformed.

Woops, my mind went to leviathans when I thought of heavier vehicles. What I was meant to say is ditching slow moving rigs (tracks and legs) for more maneuverable ones. I've never had a problem with wedges myself since I usually out-run or out-turn them, even if I'm caught off guard my vehicle would simply tilt off of the wedges and drop onto the ground, all I had to do was use my car jack and get away from them if they actually managed to flip me. I've never had trouble with them since they could rarely hold me down, less so when my teammates are obliterating them. Not saying they aren't a problem and shouldn't be fixed, but this is a way to not be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ over by them.

[Ryuu]

Originally posted by Ⓣ☯Ⓜ:

Changing your build to 'counter' them will barely do that, and just give yourself even more of a disadvantage.

I think there's also some sense in making vehicle shape more of a rhomboid instead of usual box-like to counter that.

See HammerRoach on Exhibition(all time) for a demonstration, look at it above in test-drive. Yeah, it's a also a wedge build, but resistant to other wedges from all sides. Notice rhomboid shape, notice extra wheel at the back. Its shape makes it harder and unstable to lift.

---

You can combine tracks with wheels as i told before, this actually produces some interesting builds and ideas like tracks that serve as screens while hanging in the air. Yeah, that might be ugly for your taste, but well everyone has different playstyles in building vehicles, i like to explore what curious(and maybe even exploiting) things are possible. Mounting armament upside-down underneath cabin/frames is the thing i like to do

[Ryuu]

Originally posted by Leila Alizarin:

I've never had a problem with wedges myself since I usually out-run or out-turn them, even if I'm caught off guard my vehicle would simply tilt off of the wedges and drop onto the ground, all I had to do was use my car jack and get away from them if they actually managed to flip me.

Yeah, like i said i agree that speed works well against wedges. Ⓣ☯Ⓜ's problem is that he prefers using tracks. I don't see much profit from using tracks, their stats are still lacking and large wheels are very comparable to them with some different advantages/disadvantages.

Tracks and legs currently suck.

[Ryuu]

Also it seems that size(area-wise) gives more advantage against lifting than just weight. Massive square-shaped vehicle which uses most of engineers frames is actually hard to lift - its other side sticks into ground counteracting lifting.
Of course using wide and long vehicle has more of downsides, so it's not very feasible.

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

My current main build is 20 squares wide(at the rear), and a triangle shape(similar to rhomboid), so much less wide at the front.

It just happened again though, some suicidal shotgun wedge build comes out of nowhere and literally just drives underneath me from the front without losing any speed, even though I'm driving an undamaged 25,000 kg triangle shaped tank. Seems legit. Insane amount of realism right there.

[Alizarin]

Originally posted by Ⓣ☯Ⓜ:

My current main build is 20 squares wide(at the rear), and a triangle shape(similar to rhomboid), so much less wide at the front.

Is it flat/has little openings around the bottom? If not I'd advise building something rectangular with triangle/slanted blocks surrounding the bottom of your vehicles (a habit I got from robocraft for the sake of stable driving and landing). It would technically turn it into a wedge, yes, but you don't have to use it as one.

[Ryuu]

Yeah, they should really fix the physics. I heard some info that before CBT ended(didn't play myself) it was not possible to lift players, there were some mechanism to prevent that. I'm not sure how true that info is, seems stupid to remove that.

[White ⁧⁧Wolf]

Originally posted by Leila Alizarin:

Is it flat/has little openings around the bottom? If not I'd advise building something rectangular with triangle/slanted blocks surrounding the bottom of your vehicles (a habit I got from robocraft for the sake of stable driving and landing). It would technically turn it into a wedge, yes, but you don't have to use it as one.

It's very flat, wide and heavy. One of the flattest, widest and heaviest you'll see(except leviathans). It has no openings at all except at the rear, and I don't tend to get rammed there. 4x tracks that overlap eachother. Front has train plow for aesthetic purposes and protecting engine(it is only 1 square from touching the garage floor, just like with wedge builds I've seen, yet they drive into that and go right under me somehow). If I put the train plow 1 square lower I'd get that weird bounce bug that happens when parts touch the ground while driving.

Originally posted by Ryuu:

Yeah, they should really fix the physics. I heard some info that before CBT ended(didn't play myself) it was not possible to lift players, there were some mechanism to prevent that. I'm not sure how true that info is, seems stupid to remove that.

Seems strange indeed that they removed it. Definitely seems like it's time to bring that back! Either that or the things that were mentioned earlier(damaging vehicle or stopping movement when driving under someone).