Manhattan + Helios combo.

[Sofie]

Is there any way of actually countering apart from spamming avengers hoping you can stop construction?

[PlutonArioch]

I think Umbrellas and Artemis are better to take a helios down. But I dont think there is currently a way to deal with this combo other than prevention.... once the Helios is above your base, you have to hope there is no manhattan behind the portal.

[Sofie]

Originally posted by Arioch:

I think Umbrellas and Artemis are better to take a helios down. But I dont think there is currently a way to deal with this combo other than prevention.... once the Helios is above your base, you have to hope there is no manhattan behind the portal.

On multiplanet games a umbrella ain't going to do anything to a helios. You can just drop it over the base instantly and get a manhattan through in less than a second. So the only actual counter is killing the fabbers while it builds?

[PlutonArioch]

As far as I know, yes.
You have to time it very precisely though to get the manhattan through in less than a second. It moves very slowly, and if you tell it to go through before the teleporter is connected it just rolls through it and has then to move all arround it again to get transported. And if you have Umbrellas in your base, and Artemis or Omegas above it, they could take down the Helios before it connects. It would need a lot though probably. One Umbrella is not gonna cut it, no.
Does the cooldown for entering the orbit not apply to the helios? I was under the impression it does.

[Sofie]

Originally posted by Arioch:

As far as I know, yes.
You have to time it very precisely though to get the manhattan through in less than a second. It moves very slowly, and if you tell it to go through before the teleporter is connected it just rolls through it and has then to move all arround it again to get transported. And if you have Umbrellas in your base, and Artemis or Omegas above it, they could take down the Helios before it connects. It would need a lot though probably. One Umbrella is not gonna cut it, no.
Does the cooldown for entering the orbit not apply to the helios? I was under the impression it does.

From my testing I could get one through near instantly, I'll try again but if I remember correctly I just dropped the manhattan through a few seconds after it entered orbit.

[WhiskeyNinja]

I thought the counter to basically any Titan is to kill it before it gets built, or to present it with a metal-equivalent composition of forces. ~10 T2 Tanks can kill an Ares, ~20 gunships make mincemeat of an Atlas, and 4-5 Omegas, or ~10 Artemiss will blitz a Helios.

[Sofie]

Originally posted by Uncle Grandfather:

I thought the counter to basically any Titan is to kill it before it gets built, or to present it with a metal-equivalent composition of forces. ~10 T2 Tanks can kill an Ares, ~20 gunships make mincemeat of an Atlas, and 4-5 Omegas, or ~10 Artemiss will blitz a Helios.

Those titans take time to move from X to Y. The Helios essentially just teleports over the enemy base. It's also unlikely you have the orbital control to take out the fabbers in the 2 - 3 minutes it takes to build if it's being built on another planet.

[WhiskeyNinja]

Originally posted by S⁢upport Tech Sterling:

Originally posted by Uncle Grandfather:

I thought the counter to basically any Titan is to kill it before it gets built, or to present it with a metal-equivalent composition of forces. ~10 T2 Tanks can kill an Ares, ~20 gunships make mincemeat of an Atlas, and 4-5 Omegas, or ~10 Artemiss will blitz a Helios.

Those titans take time to move from X to Y. The Helios essentially just teleports over the enemy base. It's also unlikely you have the orbital control to take out the fabbers in the 2 - 3 minutes it takes to build if it's being built on another planet.

I could see an argument to do something interesting, like lock the Helios to the North Pole whenever it moves to a new planet, then force it to move to an enemy's base.

I also think if you're playing a multiplanet game, and you aren't competing for space on your own planet, you should be Omega rushing. 2-3 of those can kill 20-30 orbital fighters, then you can bring in Artemises to snipe their orbital fabbers if they are hiding behind Anchors/Umbrellas.

[langersuk]

1st Unlike the other Titans, due to it being orbital, everyone can see it as soon as it starts being made and has an alert. This should give enough time to begin an appropriate response.

2nd If it is made and sent to your base and they also have a manhattan ready to send through then I have no biggy about it being vitually impossible to counter AT THAT POINT. The thing I like about this game is that there are stalemate breakers. The counter is to not let the enemy get to that point.

That being said I don't play multiplayer (although I am very tempted to start team games) so I don't have the experience to judge approprately how balanced this is. By balance I mean cost and effort for the effect. Again I am content with game enders being in the game.

[WhiskeyNinja]

Originally posted by langersuk:

2nd If it is made and sent to your base and they also have a manhattan ready to send through then I have no biggy about it being vitually impossible to counter AT THAT POINT. The thing I like about this game is that there are stalemate breakers. The counter is to not let the enemy get to that point.

Yeah, the thing is, I can only see a player being able to build the Helios in 2 situations:

Either you are both completely entrenched on separate planets with tons of orbital.

Or

You weren't attacking the enemy.

[Brother Bigot]

Orbital destroyers before construction is finshed

[Hyperforce]

the system is too cheap, the Manhatan costs 1/3 of a nuke silo and thats minus the nuke.
combine it with the helios makes it a superweapon that can drop a nuke on top of any enemy seconds after its landed.

I think the manhata needs a change. its death/suicide nuke function is too strong, I think it should explode with a smaller less damaging explosion if destroyed. If its deployed it will charge up and detonate with a full nuke like currently. This will allow players time to intercept the manhatan and limit damage while still keeping its destructive power intact.

[Typhoon]

Make the Manhattan non-teleportable. If you want to nuke a planet from another planet, build a nuke silo. If you want to nuke a planet you're already established on or want to push it through the orbital layer with an Astraeus you can build a Manhattan.

I don't see the point in balancing the Manhattan's destructive capability with low speed if you can circumvent that by using the Helios.