Jinxed Trait

[Parallaxe]

Hello.

I had the idea to play a jinxed character using high luck and high hit to gain an advantage and some fun. As the wiki stats that jinxed works like in fallout 2 it should allow me to see some nasty things happening to my enemies....Turns out the trait works completely different from fallout 2.

Jinxed gives your character a much higher chance to crit with every attack disregarding the luck stat. After my first test runs wish showed me that enemies do not critical fail I created a unamred char with 2 luck 10 strength 10 agility and started running towards my enemies punching everything in my path. I can not tell you how high my crit chance was but it did feel like ~50% for sure. Some enemies went down with 3 crits in a row.

I was not able to see any negative effect from the trait on enemies. Even so I was shot several times I did not suffer even one crit. There may be some hidden effect but jinxed seems to be the strongest trait ever if you go solo.

I just wanted to tell you this as there are false information in the net and somebody might be interested in playing jinxed. :)

[Daggerpaw]

Jinx doesn't do that. It's the unarmed skill. Unarmed combined with 10 STR would make everyone a 3 hit kill anyway. Once you get the punch daggers it's 1-2 hits. You can see this in my insane + tough guy video. However, high luck does indeed make you not get killed. I also comment on this somewhere in my insane + tough guy series where I do the whole game in continuous mode and get perfect mission completion on every mission. What exactly Jinx actually does, I don't know. But if what you say is all you observed, then I'd say it does nothing, because I can show empirically with the videos I've already presented that I've already achieved what you are mentioning.

As for completing Brahmin Wood solo on Insane + Tough Guy, I can confirm that 8 STR, 10 END, 10 AGI makes it rather doable at about 50% completion, provided you dance around at mid-range until the enemies reload, at which point you just rush in and do the 1-3 hit punches which maim/kill them in less than 2 seconds.

[Parallaxe]

Hello jdmazz,

I'm quiet capable of identifying a critical attack thanks to the log. And yes it does create a massive number of crits. Test it out yourself, its easy to do.

[Daggerpaw]

FYI, here is what the unarmed skill does, straight from the manual itself. I've played the game through more than once with unarmed as a skill, so I can at least confirm it's mostly correct that unarmed does provide a lot of criticals as you become more skilled in it.

[https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/fallout.gamepedia.com/7/74/Fallout_2_manual.pdf]

Primary Punch Attacks
=================
Strong Punch
Effects: +3 damage
AP Cost: 3
Requires: Unarmed 55%, Agility 6

Hammer Punch
Effects: +5 damage, +5% critical chance
AP Cost: 3
Requires: Unarmed 75%, Agility 6, Strength 5, Level 6

Haymaker
Effects: +7 damage, +15% critical
AP Cost: 3
Requires: Unarmed 100%, Agility 7, Strength 5, Level 9

Secondary Punch Attacks
====================
Jab
Effects: +5 damage, +5% critical
AP Cost: 6
Requires: Unarmed 75%, Agility 7, Strength 5, Level 5

Palm Strike
Effects: +7 damage, +20% critical, armour piercing
AP Cost: 6
Requires: Unarmed 115%, Agility 7, Strength 5, Level 12

Piercing Strike
Effects: +10 damage, +40% critical, armour piercing
AP Cost: 8
Requires: Unarmed 130%, Agility 7, Strength 5, Level 16

Primary Kick Attacks
================
Strong Kick
Effects: +5 damage
AP Cost: 4
Requires: Unarmed 40%, Agility 6

Snap Kick
Effects: +7 damage
AP Cost: 4
Requires: Unarmed 60%, Agility 6, Level 6

Power Kick
Effects: +9 damage, +5% critical
AP Cost: 4
Requires: Unarmed 80%, Agility 6, Strength 6, Level 9

Secondary Kick Attacks
==================
Hip Kick
Effects: +7 damage
AP Cost: 7
Requires: Unarmed 60%, Agility 7, Strength 6, Level 6

Hook Kick
Effects: +9 damage, +10% critical, armour piercing
AP Cost: 7
Requires: Unarmed 100%, Agility 7, Strength 6, Level 12

Piercing Kick
Effects: +12 damage, +50% critical, armour piercing
AP Cost: 9
Requires: Unarmed 125%, Agility 8, Strength 6, Level 15

[Daggerpaw]

Originally posted by Parallaxe:

Hello jdmazz,

I'm quiet capable of identifying a critical attack thanks to the log. And yes it does create a massive number of crits. Test it out yourself, its easy to do.

No. See my next post. Also, please provide reproducable data to demonstrate your hypothesis.

[Parallaxe]

Jdmazz in all honesty. Just start the game make a lvl 1 char with low luck and jinxed run to the enemies and you will find that you have an abnormal amount of crits!

And I have played this game for many hours too. F1 and F2 too if you want to know.
I know how unarmed works, I have played several chars like that and I can tell you even with 10 luck and finese I would not get this crazy amount of crits on lvl 1 with <100% unarmed skill.

[Daggerpaw]

Okay, I just did. Let me actually provide empirical evidence here with trials and statistical information, because your hypothesis is absolutely false.

In 19 melee attacks with Jinx: 6 of them were crits, 13 of them were not. This was with all SPECIAL at 5 except AGI 10. Emprical crit% was 31.6%.

In 15 melee attacks without Jinx and same SPECIAL: 6 of them were crits, 9 of them were not. Emprical crit% was 40%.

Therefore, I reject your hypothesis that Jinx provides a crit bonus.

These attacks were performed on the exact same enemies.

[Parallaxe]

...hmm okay if that is the case than something must have changed. I have played this game with all kind of char builds and definetly had never a char on lvl 1 with 30-40% crit chance no matter the build. This seems odly high to me if I look at the game mechanics.
Do you have a math explonation for such high numbers?

I mean crit is roughly luck + perk boni + ~hit chance/20 + finese +special attack mod
(If not performing aimed attacks which I did not do)

Wich in the case of my test char would be 2 + 0 + 4~5 +0 +0 = 6~7% crit chance.
I definetly saw at least one case of three crits in a row and if your numbers are correct I wonder where the difference comes from.

[Daggerpaw]

Sorry for the delay. I went out for a couple hours. I'm certainly not lying about those numbers and I'm sure they're repeatable, however I don't myself know the mechanics behind the game. However, I do know someone that does and I'll have to discuss this with him.

It's commendable that you're doing this research. I'm hoping that we can discover what this trait actually does! I assume it does what it says, but I honestly can't say. I just know that the numbers didn't appear to alter the crits. Remember, it's important to have a control group like I did. One where everything is the same except the thing in question.

[Daggerpaw]

I'll address the Jinxed trait first. For Jinxed, the fallout 2 engine documentation says: All misses have a 50% chance to be "upgraded" to a critical failure. That includes other NPCs too.

Thus, if you're in HtH range, you are virtually guaranteed to get hit on the insane difficulty, so this would only hurt your party. If you're playing solo, then it wouldn't do anything.

BTW, if you're doing HtH, my personal recommendation would be to take Kamikaze. Nevertheless, that is beyond the scope of this discussion. But still, that's assuming you don't intend to take HtH Evade and Dodger perks which could make it more viable to care about AC.

[Daggerpaw]

BTW, I suspect there is some bonus like +30% to criticals for being in HtH range. I tested this on melee and unarmed weapons. The upgraded unarmed attacks get even more of a bonus, but even the plain knife you start with have about a 35% critical rate. I'm assuming it's something like 5% for 5 Luck and a bonus +30% for HtH range, but this is just a hypothesis as of now. BTW, the enemies definitely also experience rising critical hit chance as you get closer to them. I have enough experience with the game to know that this is a fact. Indeed, it's a fact I explicitly exploit as I go through the game.

If you test it out on your own party members, for example, you can place say Stitch like 20ft away. Place him right at the threshold where your accuracy is where it should be (i.e., the skill - the AC) and then move in closer from there. You'll see that your accuracy actually goes above what it should be. It is within this range that I am seeing my critical hit chance gradually go up. Now, as I said, I have tons of experience with exploiting this, because in my videos I deliberatly explain that you want to stay out of this critical threat range, because it's almost certain death otherwise.

[PDK]

Parallaxe it is awesome that you are posting your findings! I have to agree with jdmazz here, however, you are mistaking the power of the Unarmed skill with high stats and skill % as being bonuses from Jinxed.

The idea of Jinxed is that it will not cause critical hits, but will make critical fails way more likely. I cannot say for sure what the % is in Tactics but in FO2 it turned any miss into a coin flip (50%) chance to critical fail. Here is a list of critical fails from FO2 it should not be that much different in Tactics. If anything they would probably slightly change a variable not rework the code completely.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/critical-failures-tables-fallout2-exe.188045/

From my own playtime I can say that I've only ever seen a broken weapon a handful of times. Which the repair skill can fix!

As for the distance range modifiers jdmazz is talking about, weapons themselves have perks. I know it is not quite the same as FO2 but it is close.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2_perks (scroll down to weapon perks)

In Tactics it seems to me that most weapons either fall into the Weapon Long/Scope Range or "Assault" category. There is not a specific perk for the type I simply refer to as "Assault" but in the weapon code itself they gain increased to hit % when under 5 hexes from the target and the closer the more % gained. This can be easily tested by running stich up to an enemy with the shotgun or MP5 and watching the % rise. From that list specifically I do notice that in Tactics the 9mm Mauser does not actually get the +20% to hit like it does in FO2 even tho it still says highly accurate in its description. I think it is just an assault type in Tactics.

It is also very possible that they made melee weapons stonger, with the possible increased critical chance, because of the combat focus of this game, but I have not done much melee testing myself.

[Daggerpaw]

In 50 trials using prebuilt Mick with the knife against Stitch, I achieved the following data:

0
0
0
1
0
1
0
0
0
1
1
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
1
0
1
1
1
1
1
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
===
1 is a crit, 0 is not a crit.

This comes out to be 28%. Mick has a crit% listed as 4%. Note that 50 trials above are not really adequate to nail it down completely, but I'm adding this data to the mix.

[Parallaxe]

Hello everybody,

I have an idea what is going on. At least one tiny hope to understand those numbers.
First let me state that I was wrong with my post about jinxed at the start as I was 100% sure that the difference in crit rate must come from jinxed which as it seems is not the case.

Right now I do not have access to my game for some time and as such I would ask you to do a little test for me.

My findings were made with CTB combat and I'm suspecting yours too. Could somebody repeat those tests with classic turn based mode?

There is no way that ~30% crit rate for lvl 1 unarmed char is intended and I have an idea that this is an effect from ctb and modern machines. Maybe there is some kind of compounding of chances happening in the background while in combat.

I played the hard copy version of the game many years back and I played a lot of it and I'm 100% sure that this high crit rate was not a thing back then.

[RenegadeSalvation]

Parallax, it was around back years ago. I had a char named thug. A super mutant with maxed str. Although I have lost my screenshots, the lvl 1 char would crit almost every hit for well over 100 dmg.

[Zafod]

Does anybody know if Jinxed is even working? I tryed to attack in meele or shoot with guns with low chance to hit and never get to see any critical fail. Tryed CBT and TB