Prominence Poker

Prominence Poker

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Vylinara Apr 16, 2017 @ 7:24pm
Split pots and a rule book
I know this has been talked about before, but there are still some people getting confused by this.

This confused me for a while too. IRL, according to texas holdem rules there are what are known as contradiction rules. These rules are basically flavor rules so the person in charge of the table can decide how they want their game to be run.

Part of these rules is deciding whether kickers take affect all of the time or only on certain hands. For instance, the WPT plays with kickers always deciding a tie regardless of the hand, so even on straights, flushes and so on, the kicker decides the tie breaker.

Both rules are valid, like I said they are flavor rules. But since there are a lot of people who play by one set of rules or the other, I think the devs should put a rule book in the game's main menu so the players understand what flavor/contradiction rules the devs chose to play by.

I think this would clear up a lot of confusion in the future.

Thanks for your time.
Last edited by Vylinara; Apr 16, 2017 @ 7:25pm
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Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
MrBananaGrabber Apr 16, 2017 @ 7:55pm 
+1
floWError Apr 17, 2017 @ 11:24am 
What's a kicker in a flush? Doesn't the better flush win? Do you mean the exact same flush, with different suits, that's not possible in hold'em with 5 to the board.
Vylinara Apr 17, 2017 @ 12:47pm 
Originally posted by floWError:
What's a kicker in a flush? Doesn't the better flush win? Do you mean the exact same flush, with different suits, that's not possible in hold'em with 5 to the board.

Your right, Texas holdem has that contradiction rule, and prominence poker uses it.

However, holdem has many contradiction rules like I said above. This means that depending on the contradiction rules you choose to play with a kicker can always be in play regardless of the 5 cards.

If both players have the exact same hand it is called a tie. If kickers are not in play, the pot is split. If they are in play, then the higher kicker decides who wins the pot, making the kickers the tie breaker.

The confusion of all of this comes from who knows about what rules. Most people who play texas holdem play by the rules that they first came across and never bother to learn the others. But there are so many contradiction/flavor rules that it is possible for a texas holdem game to be played almost entirely different at each table.

For instance the world poker tour (I'm just using them as an example since it is well known) plays a common texas holdem rule set. Aces are high, so they can't be used to make a straight from the bottom (A2345), kickers are always in play, and they allow blind man's gambits (raising all in without looking at your cards or even before you recieve them, and not being able to see your cards throughout the hand).

But Prominence Poker plays with these rules. Kickers are only active when up to 4 cards are in play, Aces are wild meaning aces can be played from the bottom or the top, with the bottom making it the weakest card, and the top being the strongest card. They also don't allow blind man's gambits.

There are more rules that WPT and Prominence poker play differently, so many that it would make my comment a much larger wall of text than it already is.

Since there are so many rules to play by, it makes it confusing to people, to see a game played by different rules than they are used to. This is why I think it would be a good idea for the devs to take a couple of hours and put a rule book into the main menu.
Last edited by Vylinara; Apr 17, 2017 @ 12:49pm
Ace Apr 19, 2017 @ 2:41pm 
Heres a good screenshot for you with kicker 7 winning no split pot. Without the Q,7 being there then it would be a split pot. Pretty basic really.

Not so basic even for me it seems.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=909032526
Last edited by Ace; Apr 22, 2017 @ 1:23pm
probably i'm a bit confused, but i really do not understand what people do not understand.
at the end of any hand all the players have 7 (seven) cards (5 on the board + 2 hole cards): the player with the best 5 (five) cards among these 7 (seven) cards wins. am i wrong or is it very simple?
Last edited by 𝓝𝒊𝒍𝒊𝒏☣; Apr 19, 2017 @ 7:50pm
Vylinara Apr 21, 2017 @ 3:55pm 
Originally posted by Nilin:
probably i'm a bit confused, but i really do not understand what people do not understand.
at the end of any hand all the players have 7 (seven) cards (5 on the board + 2 hole cards): the player with the best 5 (five) cards among these 7 (seven) cards wins. am i wrong or is it very simple?

You are both right and wrong. As I've said above, the five card rule is a rule that says if 5 cards are in play there are no tie breakers (kickers). It is one of texas holdem's many contradiction rules.

But the most commonly accepted way of playing texas holdem is kickers are always in play regardless of the five cards. So even with a straight, kickers decide a tie. Most professional tournaments in the U.S. play this way.

But as you stated, the five card rule seems like an obvious way to play, and to you and many others on here, it doesn't seem like the game can be played any other way.

However, there are people who play this game expecting kickers in play for the reasons I stated above. So I think devs should put a rule book in the game that states the exact rules they choose to play with, so that there is no more confusion.
Scruxx Apr 21, 2017 @ 6:22pm 
Would you tell us an example where you saw this other rule? Ive never seen it in 20 years of poker. Its not that i dont believe you, its just that i think 99% of the players know only one rulebook, because its used everywhere.
Vylinara Apr 21, 2017 @ 10:16pm 
Originally posted by Scruxx:
Would you tell us an example where you saw this other rule? Ive never seen it in 20 years of poker. Its not that i dont believe you, its just that i think 99% of the players know only one rulebook, because its used everywhere.

Understandable, here is a link to a conversation people had about the same subject. Even though they eventually decide the 5 card rule is the proper way to play.

https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/9771/poker-texas-holdem-combinations-tie-or-not-tie

The point of that link, and this whole discussion in fact, is to point out that there is confusion about the rules to begin with and not to try and say which way is the correct way to play. And that there are people who play with the kicker even when all 5 cards are in play.

This is a game afterall, here for entertainment and money. And rules for it will vary greatly on the community that plays it, so there is no point arguing validity of the rules.

Also, on a personal note, and there is no way to prove it of course. But my family, myself, extended family, and friends, have always played with the kicker always in play. The local tournaments both in my town and also in Seattle play with same rule.
Wissaul Apr 22, 2017 @ 3:11am 
Originally posted by Ace:
Without the Q,7 being there then the Q,5 would win.
No, without Q7 it would be a split pot.
Q Q 10 10 5 vs Q Q 10 10 5
Last edited by Wissaul; Apr 22, 2017 @ 3:12am
Let me put it this way because I got confused by this.. Two players have a heart flush. Say player A has 10 of hearts, and player B has 7 of hearts in their two cards. In the five cards on the table there is a heart King. Is this a split pot or is the kicker the 10?
player A wins because 10>7
Ace Apr 22, 2017 @ 12:30pm 
Originally posted by Wissaul:
Originally posted by Ace:
Without the Q,7 being there then the Q,5 would win.
No, without Q7 it would be a split pot.
Q Q 10 10 5 vs Q Q 10 10 5

Recheck the screenshot. Its Q Q 10 10 3 vs Q Q 10 10 5.
Last edited by Ace; Apr 22, 2017 @ 12:35pm
Wissaul Apr 22, 2017 @ 1:03pm 
Originally posted by Ace:
Recheck the screenshot. Its Q Q 10 10 3 vs Q Q 10 10 5.
I did it
http://imgur.com/a/eCQDJ
Ace Apr 22, 2017 @ 1:08pm 
Originally posted by Wissaul:
Originally posted by Ace:
Recheck the screenshot. Its Q Q 10 10 3 vs Q Q 10 10 5.
I did it
http://imgur.com/a/eCQDJ

Your right had a brain fart moment i was ment to be showing the spiltpot like you show it. Ill shutup now epic fail.
Last edited by Ace; Apr 22, 2017 @ 1:10pm
floWError Apr 25, 2017 @ 12:33pm 
Originally posted by Nilin:
probably i'm a bit confused, but i really do not understand what people do not understand.
at the end of any hand all the players have 7 (seven) cards (5 on the board + 2 hole cards): the player with the best 5 (five) cards among these 7 (seven) cards wins. am i wrong or is it very simple?

You are absolutely correct, I don't know if OP is being serious or trying to make a joke thread, but there really is no confusion. Very straight-forward. I've never heard of "contradiction rules," and the World Poker Tour definitely DOES NOT have a rule that the Ace plays only high. Maybe that stackexchange forum post was about some weird home game. Once you change the fundamental rules (injecting these "contradiction rules") you can no longer call your game texas hold'em. For example, PLO is PLO, but if you are playing 8 or better, than you have to call it PLO Hi-Lo.
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Date Posted: Apr 16, 2017 @ 7:24pm
Posts: 19