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Rivals 1 existed just fine and had a dedicated fanbase before Workshop was a thing, to act as if Workshop is what defines the game as a whole now is ridiculous. You aren't upset that Rivals 2 is going 3D, or that its adding mechanics from Smash, or reworking character kits; you're upset that you lost your mods.
It's still Rivals for anyone that bothered playing the base game. Only a Workshop purist would say it traded away its identity when it already had one prior.
And no sane developer is trying to compete with Ultimate. Every game has its niche. Smash's first roster was already assembled from notable IPs and every game after only made it bigger. Trying to outshine Smash in both its roster of established IPs, polish, team manpower, and legacy is so borderline impossible that the lead dev for Nick All-Stars repeatedly told people to stop calling their game the next Smash Killer.
Because the base roster is the foundation. I'd rather Rivals not go the Fraymakers route of prioritizing mods before having your own roster finished resulting in the mod balance being even more out of line with each other.
Your favorite high-quality workshop character is most likely balanced around the base cast as they are quite literally the most popular balance-defining standard for any custom character. Every base character has had a tournament presence with no one character becoming the entire entry list, so if the entire cast is unbalanced, then they're essentially balanced.
Rivals 1 isn't being taken out of your library. When Rivals 2 releases, you'll still have your mods. There are people that have stuck with Melee despite Ultimate's release, people have stuck with Third Strike, Marvel vs Capcom 3; they aren't going anywhere.
Besides, Workshop is full of contrasting artstyle characters. Some of them are actual sprite rips from other games. Modders have handled putting new characters with unique animations in 64, Brawl, and now Ultimate, I'm sure they'll be fine doing it for Rivals 2 if it ever receives it.
They didn't even shoot Workshop being added to Rivals 2 down, they simply said it would come far after launch; which is exactly what Rivals 1 did.
beside the fact you made a gigantic paragraph of basic dribble that assumes a lot like "you're sad the mods are being taken away", whilst I MYSELF am, the people here don't seem to share that sentiment and are more annoyed they're trying to be smash brothers instead of rivals of aether.
i did agree with the fact you made about fraymakers, tho. that ♥♥♥♥ was dead on arrival
but once again you don't seem to get the point i'm making since you're pretty much saying exactly what i am but in a positive connotation, "the diehard fans will get rivals 2." and who else? who apart from the diehard rivals of aether fans are going to get some game with a bland name, a boring cast with 27 firebenders with the cheap looking models and the boring ghetto-smash mechanics?
whilst i'm not one to say games are "clones" because i loved saints row, it's hard to like it when they're so valiantly trying to rub off their own uniqueness (pixel art ala flash smash, the fact you can't have more than one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ taunt) in vein of more contemporary things to get an audience that just does not care in the SLIGHTEST
if they want a smash-like, they'll play smash.
In the off chance, that Rivals 2 succeeds in making its characters more recognizable at the cost of pretty much everything that makes game good, what's the point? I recognize Bubzy. That doesn't mean I wanna play it.
"Rivals 1 existed just fine and had a dedicated fanbase before Workshop was a thing, to act as if Workshop is what defines the game as a whole now is ridiculous."
The workshop doesn't define it. It just makes it fun. The base gameplay give the game its potential & the workshop realizes that potential. The base roster is necessary for modes like Abyss Endless & The Ascent & it's necessary groundwork for there to actually be a game for people to mod so you don't get the Mugen situation of no one agreeing how the game should feel & characters not even following the same control scheme as each other or even the games they came from. So the base roster's existence is important in ways that don't relate to them being good at all on their own merits.
"You aren't upset that Rivals 2 is going 3D, or that its adding mechanics from Smash,"
I would be if I weren't already uninterested for the other reasons I mentioned. You only assume I wouldn't be because you wanna believe that.
"you're upset that you lost your mods."
Yes. Exactly. Just like I'd have no interest in a Halo game without Forge or a Mario Kart game that has only 16 tracks & none of 'em are good. Or a Dragon's Dogma game without character customization, pawns, or a class system.
It's not a gotcha moment to point out that the reason I'm complaining about the sequel to my favorite game is because it threatens to exclude everything that made me like it in exchange for nothing notable & nothing that's worth anything without a workshop to couple it with, & that it's gonna draw customers away from this game just for a lot of them to immediately quit because it sucks & then give up on the entire franchise even though this game still exists because most gamers have Shiny New Thing Syndrome & don't know how to react when they end up hating the shiny new thing they invested in.
It happened with Halo, Call of Duty, & Mario Kart repeatedly. ♥♥♥♥♥♥ new game comes out. People say it's gonna be amazing. They play it & complain that it's awful & *insert plainly superior old game* is better in every way. They then continue playing the new one even though they still have the old one. They get bored & then they stop playing the franchise entirely until a new game comes out.
Nearly everyone I knew loved Halo 3. Most of us considered it the best game that existed at the time. It was one of those games that even nongamers played like Guitar Hero or Mario Kart but more so. Then, Reach came out & soon none of us were playing Halo games. I still wanted to. My friends still all talked about how fun it was & that it was the best one. None of 'em would play it anymore though.
Same thing happens with every fighting game that ever gets a sequel. "Fewer characters, few to no new ones, no new mechanics, worse physics, worse controls, worse visuals, worse music, worse story, less story, fewer modes, DRM, & day-one DLC? Sign me up! Gotta have that higher number title!
"Because the base roster is the foundation. I'd rather Rivals not go the Fraymakers route of prioritizing mods before having your own roster finished resulting in the mod balance being even more out of line with each other."
They finished the base roster & it's bad.
"Your favorite high-quality workshop character is most likely balanced around the base cast as they are quite literally the most popular balance-defining standard for any custom character. Every base character has had a tournament presence with no one character becoming the entire entry list, so if the entire cast is unbalanced, then they're essentially balanced."
Workshop characters are actually often considered really bad at fighting base cast. Base cast characters all make it into tournaments often enough because they're all horribly imbalanced. Making full cast of unbalanced characters doesn't make a balanced game. It makes every match tedious no matter what the matchup is.
Like Marvel vs Capcom 3. That game's full of characters who are incredibly obnoxious because they couldn't decide what archetype/gimmick they should have so they just gave 'em everything. Rivals does the same thing. About every character has at least 1 move that comes out immediately hits a wide area, & either hits like a truck or causes an overpowered status effect. Sometimes both.
If Smash Ultimate were designed like Rivals 1's base cast, Falcon Punch, Charge Beam, & Thoran would all come out immediately & do moderately more damage than they do now while costing nothing to use. And Meta Knight would have midair smash attacks, an excellent projectile, a reward for using the projectile, & no post-Brawl nerfs.
"Besides, Workshop is full of contrasting artstyle characters. Some of them are actual sprite rips from other games."
I almost never use the sprite rips or character who just look super ugly.
"Modders have handled putting new characters with unique animations in 64, Brawl, and now Ultimate, I'm sure they'll be fine doing it for Rivals 2 if it ever receives it."
That's extremely rare to the point that people lose their minds when it happens. With Rivals, you could take just the good characters from Workshop & still have a roster of a probably a few hundred characters. It's insane. I don't know how such a good modding community got formed but it's literally impossible to top it without mods.
"They didn't even shoot Workshop being added to Rivals 2 down, they simply said it would come far after launch; which is exactly what Rivals 1 did."
My bad on that one. I shouldn't have assumed that had changed just because someone in this thread said it.
i don't really wanna argue anymore but i just wanna add the scout from tf2 that was just a stickman and ross from friends being a collage of images were easily super disappointing
anyone that wants more of Smash
wants another solid platform fighter
wants decent netcode
wants to run a tournament without Nintendo knocking at your door and breaking your fingers for still owning a Melee copy
Brawlhalla? Cast full of completely original characters + Rayman (and the cross-over skins are for the base cast), practically flash-animated with every character designed on the same body rig, free to play, has several mechanics from Smash...
Characters with no prior reputation, no mods, Smash mechanics, Flash graphics, who would play that? Over 10,000 people apparently.
You're putting so much weight into mods and recognition being the key to success when its how the game uses its own mechanics that people truly enjoy. People who want a moddable Smash-like are just one demographic of many and I doubt it'll be the absolute deciding factor of whether or not Rivals 2 succeeds
if they want Smash, they'd play Smash
if they want a Smash-like, they'd play another Platform Fighter, because there are plenty of options
Think of any fighting game. I'll pick Dragon Ball FighterZ for example. It's gameplay & visuals are good. But it only matter that they're good because you can play as fun characters in that gameplay with those visuals. If they made a Dragon Ball FighterZ 2 where they removed all of the characters except for the Goku/Vegeta/Vegetto/Gogeta variants & made the gameplay way more similar to Guilty Gear Strive, I wouldn't care how much they polished it or how much they subjectively improved the visuals or made them more cost effective or whatever.
Think that example's extreme? It's actually extremely mild. Because I'd at least have 4 characters I enjoy in that game instead of a full roster I hate. And yet, I'd still have no reason to play it because I already have FighterZ & Strive.
It may not seem fair but the very instant I realized how fun Pokemon Infinite Fusion is specifically because it has a number of Pokemon Nintendo literally can't compete with, Nintendo lost any chance of getting me to wanna play a new mainline Pokemon game unless they enlist people who worked on Pokemon Infinite Fusion & just use the fusion system from that game.
It's the same situation here. Because this game (like Pokemon Infinite Fusion) managed something almost no game does. Virtually infinite quantity with the addition of quality instead of the loss of it. If the game loses the qualities I liked & loses the content, why would I want it? It makes no mathematical sense. It's like when mini Reese's cups used to taste like sawdust and they were smaller. Except those at least came in higher quantities per price.
I
genuinely don't know how to respond to this, I've been playing this game since Etalus released and I have zero clue on what moves you could be referring to that are hitting in a wide area that also hit like a truck and/or cause an overpowered status effect. I can't name a single base cast character who I thought wasn't manageable in some capacity.
I don't want to say that you're bad at the game but I am wondering what exactly you're struggling with in regards to base cast's design.
if every character was like that people would think its hype as ♥♥♥♥
people aren't tired of MVC and Melee after all these years for a reason
It's Mugen with a baseline for balance and a sprite resolution that begs for even a hobbyist to try their hand at it. I've done it myself.
I was going to talk ♥♥♥♥ about Fraymakers again but I'm refraining.
I've also seen plenty of mods for Brawl that add quality characters, even though the animation quality usually takes a hit. They still function mechanically and I prefer that over the rest.
damn, this is really sad. honestly, with all these new changes, AND WORKSHOP BEING REMOVED? rivals 2 is just going to be a "smash clone." the whole point of rivals was that the only thing it had in common with smash was fighting on platforms. not having shields or grabs, pixel art-artstyle etc is what made rivals unique, and now they're just going to remove one of the biggest, if not THE biggest part of rivals? i hate to say it, but an insanely large part of the community comes from the workshop. the original characters are awesome though, don't get me wrong, but seriously? they are quite literally turning the game into a smash clone!
"Will it support mods / Steam Workshop like Rivals of Aether does?
We saw how amazing mod support worked in Rivals of Aether and loved to see the creativity that came from our community. Due to our current team being light on engineering support, we are not prioritizing official mod support at launch. We want to bring this feature later into the game’s life as quickly as we can but we don’t have a definitive timeline right now."
i truly regret making it
But modding is usually THE selling point.